Where’d that calc come from?
NM, found Lanterne Rouge article
Where’d that calc come from?
NM, found Lanterne Rouge article
Ugh... that's Lance-on-EPO power. It's funny, I just listened to a podcast (Peter Attia with Tadej's coach) where they made a point of saying today's riders aren't putting out near the power of the 90's and early 2000's drugged-up TDF racers. I guess they are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackattack
Pog beat lances time up Plateau de Beille by 7 mins, Patiniis all time 1998 record by 4 mins. So did Jonas.
Aliens.
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I sure hope they're aliens with the very best modern training, nutrition, etc, and not just on the most modern and undetectable doping program. (I do think they're clean, I'm just saying it would suck to learn otherwise in 10 years)
IMO-def not clean, and it will eventually come outQuote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
It’s just so not normal. They absolutely smashed those records. Hard to believe they are squeaky clean. Too much money involved to be zero fuckery.
Probably on some kind of crank that hasn’t been banned yet.
Tadej and Jonas seem to be so genuine tho. The teams are also grinding out the marginal gains especially on the nutrition side. The carbs per hour has gone way up in recent years. The aero gains are huge too now. Lance had flapping jerseys.
Or maybe they are once in 100 year freaks.
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Motors ... in wheels .... from former soviet countries. Crazy expensive, but probably no longer vaporware.
This podcast is hit or miss, but episode 6 was pretty darn interesting:
https://open.spotify.com/show/5m2ykF...b78863d36040eb
To be fair:Quote:
Originally Posted by smmokan
1. They also said that some of the calcs people run to estimate their power are often way off from the actual data (which they do not make public).
2. Inigo said that some of Tadej's base physiological parameters are serious outliers even by the standards of top-tier elites.
3. Training, nutrition, and aero have come a long ways in the last 20 years. Even on climbs like this they're going fast enough for aero gains to matter.
That all said, destroying records set during the peak doping era is hard to overlook.
Breaking records is inevitable. What Cav accomplished in this tour was unprecedented and unexpected, but it happened. I think it's safe to say that cyclists in the EPO era lived, fueled, recovered, etc very differently than the kids these days. Pogi is 25 and has 14 tdf stages, it seems that he has the legs to take any mountain finish he wants, does he have 12 more stage wins in him before he's through?
That said, I would be crushed if it came out that the only gains the sport has made is that they've learned how to cheat better.
If it never comes out, I'm inclined to explain it as though he simply never got caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackattack
Tadej, Jonas and Remco all smashed Pantini’s record. It’s kinda like 3 100 metre sprinters running a sub 9.3 sec time in one race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
But Tadej said today the professionalism in the sport today is amateur level compared to when he started pro 6 years ago. Specifically mentioning nutrition. Focussed altitude training is new in the last 5-10 years. Tons of aero and bike tech gains as well.
But still…putting almost 4 mins into Pantani…
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Also Pantani’s bike probably weighed 6 pounds more than the UCI limit. That matters when you’re going uphill at ludicrous speed.
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I saw a pretty good article a few mos ago on a hyper focus on core body temp and thermoregulation causing big improvements for cycling in terms of increased maintainence of power output (claim was 5% power loss per 1 deg increased core body temp), an area that wasn't on most radars ~10 yrs ago. Most or all on the tour using them now. Tadej said it himself- his ability to stay cool kept all day kept him fresh for that insane push.
(Mikel Landa also inside 4 mins.)
Keeping cool is key but pantani was bald with no helmet. That’s gotta be hella watts of cooling And less hair grams. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
Yes. Lots of others close to the record and likely equal to lance. Maybe all these marginal gains have really added up, raising the boat for all.
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Vingo said the wattage estimates are accurate.
https://sport.tv2.dk/cykling/2024-07...ligere-har-set
Chris Horner interviews the team doc from Astana about gains in nutrition for TdF athletes
Maybe I’m crazy here… but this wasn’t just a time trial up a climb.
The week prior matters a lot. Effort. Nutrition. Recovery etc.
The effort you put in on the miles leading up to the climb matters. Team tactics matter. Also… I’d be kinda shocked if there wasn’t a 5-10% gain with a modern bike. Maybe that keeps your heart rate a bit lower leading up to the big effort.
Point being - your state as you roll into the bottom of the climb has a lot of variables.
I absolutely agree that it’s silly fast and I tend to be a skeptic but there is more than just watts and minutes.
This is a really good point. Surely these guys are all very familiar with the work that has come out of Craig Heller's lab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mofro261
what happened to Girmay?!?
Seems the fight for the green jersey is getting interesting. Does anyone know how many intermediate sprints are left? Are we going to see the sprinters in the breakaway?Quote:
Originally Posted by ::: :::
Haven't seen Girmay's crash yet, hope he's not badly hurt
This si my take as well. I just got back into the tour after avoiding caring for a few years. I'll probably need to come to terms with things like I did during the 90s home run chase where I chalked it up to just being entertaining.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
He crashed first on roundabout inside. Touched with an EF rider. Into railings. He rode in tho. Gap on points is 36 to jasper.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_pdx
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I was just ranting about too many curves and roundabouts near the finish…
Did anyone else hear Bobke's "what the hell do you think you're doing, the fuck?" Hot mic, Bob!
Later he apologized and said someone was trying to get into the commentary booth.
Each of the next four stages have intermediate sprints with 20/17/15/13/11/10/9/8/7/6/5/4/3/2/1 points on offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_pdx
Philipsen is 32 points down
Has he even competed for an intermediate sprint this year?
Two observations
1. The NBC broadcasters said that on the climb to plateau de Beille yesterday, Jorgensen stomped out 7.2 w/kg for 14 min
2. On stage 17 last year (first day in the Alps) Pogacar blew a gasket and lost like 7 min
Thanks! Good to know there's still enough points out there for either of them to pull it out. Philipsen and Girmay have gone toe to toe for at least one intermediate sprint in the last few days, but it seemed they were much more focused on stage wins. Now that they need those intermediate points, I assume those will be much more competitiveQuote:
Originally Posted by TBS
And painful in the hills
Jonas has said he had the best climb of his life on stage 15. so it’s no longer about any lack of form.Quote:
Originally Posted by TBS
Tadej completely cracking like that is the only chance Jonas has. But I don’t see it. We’ve had a rest day and a chill stage today. Plus he has made a fuelling error already so likely has that dialed now.
^^^ Yeah, I have little doubt Pogi will have the Mellow Johnny at the end of stage 21
Yup, and Philipsen doesn’t much like hills.Quote:
Originally Posted by ::: :::
Which was why I sold him today to buy Vingo…
There is a good thread on reddit with reposts from the cyclingnews forum and twitter that Pogi has a new coach and completely changed his training regimen this year. The insinuation is that he is a genetic freak that has been training sub-optimally for the last four years. Take it as you will.
Damn, that was some good racing today.
Fight for points
Fight for the stage win
Fight for the podium
Great Tour, so much better than last year.
I’m a Carapaz guy, happy for him.
Don't have much to brag about in this years league so excuse me when I say that I'm pretty stoked to get a top ten finish overall for today's stage. FKNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^^Nice work. Carapaz delivered!
Yeah. I heard a bit on this too. He dropped the Italian doc based in boulder. He was all about zone 2 training. The new coach has been pushing up more time in higher zones. Ithink it’s clear it’s working for him. And his dominance this year could be more about that than Jonas coming off an injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosthop
I think previous coach zone 2 approach was over done. I see this in the biohacking space. Cold exposure is good so I will sit in freezing water 3 hrs a day. Fasting is good so I will starve myself for 14 days etc. zone 2 is good so I will only ride zone 2. Likely not an optimal strategy.
Better racing through chemistry.Quote:
Originally Posted by huckbucket
Battery chemistry. ;-)
Will we see the day when every racer has to pass his bike through a fluoroscope on the way to the starting line?
That was a very interesting listen, thx for posting.
Victor Campenaerts!
Chris Horner is sitting on his chesterfield going nuts
If motor doping was really a thing why would they bother with all the nutrition science massages, altitude training, aero testing etc etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by fomofo
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By choice man. It’s a conscious choice.