The Black Crows thread

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Originally Posted by mmmgood

I’m 6’1” 200 lbs and just about to turn 50! I’ve been riding the Captis 184 for groomers and Atris 189 for everything else. Love the Atris and it’s never really felt too long…maybe towards the end of a hard day in the steep skied out trees:)


Every year we do a January Baldface trip and last year I had my Atris 189s with waist deep powder. I had a blast on them but they did tend to feel a little long in the deep, steeper tight trees. I found myself wishing I had something that was a little easier, maybe even slower at times. The 189 Atris was a lot of effort to ski in those conditions. They were a blast because you definitely sank deeper, and fun when it opened up….but a lot of work.


This year Im looking to add a “just powder” ski for cat trips and Baldface. I haven’t ridden a +115 ski in the deep like the Nocta. This is where I’m struggling…I keep seeing the Nocta skis shorter with the full rocker. Will the Nocta 190 feel too long in those deep, tighter moments like the Atris 189 did for me? Should I go for the Nocta 186 for a more playful, floaty, maneuverable, easier going ride, or am I worrying about it too much and just go for the 190?

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im 5’11” 190 and ski the 190 nocta in tight spaces no problem. The 185 skied a little shorter then I wanted. Definitely get the 190.

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Originally Posted by mmmgood

I’m 6’1” 200 lbs and just about to turn 50! I’ve been riding the Captis 184 for groomers and Atris 189 for everything else. Love the Atris and it’s never really felt too long…maybe towards the end of a hard day in the steep skied out trees:)


Every year we do a January Baldface trip and last year I had my Atris 189s with waist deep powder. I had a blast on them but they did tend to feel a little long in the deep, steeper tight trees. I found myself wishing I had something that was a little easier, maybe even slower at times. The 189 Atris was a lot of effort to ski in those conditions. They were a blast because you definitely sank deeper, and fun when it opened up….but a lot of work.


This year Im looking to add a “just powder” ski for cat trips and Baldface. I haven’t ridden a +115 ski in the deep like the Nocta. This is where I’m struggling…I keep seeing the Nocta skis shorter with the full rocker. Will the Nocta 190 feel too long in those deep, tighter moments like the Atris 189 did for me? Should I go for the Nocta 186 for a more playful, floaty, maneuverable, easier going ride, or am I worrying about it too much and just go for the 190?

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I haven't tried 185 but 190 is one of the most intuitive and easiest pow sticks I've been on. Last April we got a nice storm in the middle of the week and I had them on my feet but had Corvus in the truck bed just in case. After a few hours everything got tracked out and seemed like a good time to grab Corvus. In heavy wet snow it felt grabby and sluggish so I went back to Nocta and it was just as fun as in AM. Even though I had Tectons on them. As long as the snow is soft you won't notice their width or length.

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Originally Posted by whambat

I have heard mixed things on the Atris, some people say they are the bees knees for a DD and others have said their top end is a little lacking, but hopefully that’s fixed with the new stiffer design. Looks like NS has been rocking some crazy lines at speed on the new ones where he used to use the Animas.

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I've been an Atris fanboi for years and my take is that it depends on how big you are, what you're used to skiing (or are you actually used to skiing a particular style of ski) and what snow type/conditions. It's a pretty capable ski if you're not used to skiing heavy chargers all day and especially if you're under 200lbs. The tips/tails have never been super stiff but the ski overall is capable of being pushed - just not to the same extent as the Corvus>Cochise>LP XXL, etc. The previous two versions of the Atris were stiffer than the original, but the newest 105 waist is supposedly a touch softer overall.

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Originally Posted by mmmgood

I’m 6’1” 200 lbs and just about to turn 50! I’ve been riding the Captis 184 for groomers and Atris 189 for everything else. Love the Atris and it’s never really felt too long…maybe towards the end of a hard day in the steep skied out trees:)


Every year we do a January Baldface trip and last year I had my Atris 189s with waist deep powder. I had a blast on them but they did tend to feel a little long in the deep, steeper tight trees. I found myself wishing I had something that was a little easier, maybe even slower at times. The 189 Atris was a lot of effort to ski in those conditions. They were a blast because you definitely sank deeper, and fun when it opened up….but a lot of work.


This year Im looking to add a “just powder” ski for cat trips and Baldface. I haven’t ridden a +115 ski in the deep like the Nocta. This is where I’m struggling…I keep seeing the Nocta skis shorter with the full rocker. Will the Nocta 190 feel too long in those deep, tighter moments like the Atris 189 did for me? Should I go for the Nocta 186 for a more playful, floaty, maneuverable, easier going ride, or am I worrying about it too much and just go for the 190?

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I'd stick with the 190 for a pure pow trips, unless you see yourself spending a lot of time in tighter trees. The full reverse on the Nocta should give you better pivot than the Atris. I like my 189 Atris, but agree that for my size they can feel a bit long in slower, tighter spots. 184s are pretty mobile in similar situations.

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Originally Posted by whambat

Any loss of stability or damping from the Invictus to the Corvus? The Corvus is several hundred grams lighter. I’ll admit I was a little skeptical of the deep rocker lines on the Corvus as it reminds me of the Mantra M5s I have, and frankly don’t love that ski, I prefer the Bonafides with less rocker in that width. But, I guess that’s just a reason to go longer on size.

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I just skied them today in the perfect conditions. Crud, deeper pow, no loss of stability. I’m on the 193 and I really liked the 188 Invictus


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I just skied them today in the perfect conditions. Crud, deeper pow, no loss of stability. I’m on the 193 and I really liked the 188 Invictus


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thanks, that helps a lot. I like the idea of a lighter weight ski with the same charginess as I think it would be great with my Cast setup. Unfortunately, I just dinged myself up and have to see doc Tuesday to get an idea how much I’m going to miss.

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Originally Posted by mmmgood

I’m 6’1” 200 lbs and just about to turn 50! I’ve been riding the Captis 184 for groomers and Atris 189 for everything else. Love the Atris and it’s never really felt too long…maybe towards the end of a hard day in the steep skied out trees:)


Every year we do a January Baldface trip and last year I had my Atris 189s with waist deep powder. I had a blast on them but they did tend to feel a little long in the deep, steeper tight trees. I found myself wishing I had something that was a little easier, maybe even slower at times. The 189 Atris was a lot of effort to ski in those conditions. They were a blast because you definitely sank deeper, and fun when it opened up….but a lot of work.


This year Im looking to add a “just powder” ski for cat trips and Baldface. I haven’t ridden a +115 ski in the deep like the Nocta. This is where I’m struggling…I keep seeing the Nocta skis shorter with the full rocker. Will the Nocta 190 feel too long in those deep, tighter moments like the Atris 189 did for me? Should I go for the Nocta 186 for a more playful, floaty, maneuverable, easier going ride, or am I worrying about it too much and just go for the 190?

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I've got 25lbs on you so no comment, but how the f are you getting a yearly baldface trip?! HOOK US UP!

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Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

I've got 25lbs on you so no comment, but how the f are you getting a yearly baldface trip?! HOOK US UP!

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Ha! It is a special place. Once you’re in, don’t give it up! BTW, got the Nocta 190s;)

Tbh my skiing ability in pow is probably not suited for bald face. I’d love it, but def need some more turns before I threw down with that group.


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Bruno testing a new "110mm Freebird" ski. A flat/reverse Corvus FB?

Attachment 437526

^^ kinda looks like a fatter Solis

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Originally Posted by alpinevibes

Bruno testing a new "110mm Freebird" ski. A flat/reverse Corvus FB?

Attachment 437526

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It should have come this way from the beginning.

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https://www.corbetts.com/search?sear...ry=black+crows

some old stock on sale

First day on new 186 Captis. I'm 6'2 / 225lbs. What fun skis. Seriously, I was shocked at how easy they are to drive the shovels, edge hold is wildly good and they bomb through kick up/crust/whatever. Definitely keeping these as my frontside/fuck around skis. Super stable at speed and they like to go FAST.

Got a couple of days on the 183 Justis the past weekend.

Fuck those soft (and wide) grippy tips in cut up variable frontside conditions.

Sweet low edge angle skidded short turns, as sweet as sweet can be. But when transitioning to higher edge angles and carved turns one better hold on cause of said tips, Damn do they bend, and jerk up the ride.

Everything from underfoot and rearward felt dang on. Sweet tail flex. On current gen Griffons + RX130.

So it's either: [A] Detune the crap of a substantial portion of the tip rocker section, maybe not quite to the camber contact point, but at least halfway from widest point of tip to camber contact point. Or [B] Flip 'em. Currently undecided. Wish I could stiffen those tips substantially. Is ski viagra a thing?

Skied them back to back with 108 Wrens (184 cm, 2018, +Wardens) which behaved super sweet in the same conditions. Not as tight carves obviously. The softish flex of that vintage allows for some decent bending though, and they're calm, so calm.

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Originally Posted by waxoff

Got a couple of days on the 183 Justis the past weekend.

Fuck those soft (and wide) grippy tips in cut up variable frontside conditions.

Sweet low edge angle skidded short turns, as sweet as sweet can be. But when transitioning to higher edge angles and carved turns one better hold on cause of said tips, Damn do they bend, and jerk up the ride.

Everything from underfoot and rearward felt dang on. Sweet tail flex. On current gen Griffons + RX130.

So it's either: [A] Detune the crap of a substantial portion of the tip rocker section, maybe not quite to the camber contact point, but at least halfway from widest point of tip to camber contact point. Or [B] Flip 'em. Currently undecided. Wish I could stiffen those tips substantially. Is ski viagra a thing?

Skied them back to back with 108 Wrens (184 cm, 2018, +Wardens) which behaved super sweet in the same conditions. Not as tight carves obviously. The softish flex of that vintage allows for some decent bending though, and they're calm, so calm.

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I wonder if they aren’t folding and it’s just the lack of tip out front in combination with so much rocker. My 189 doesnt feel soft in the tip, just short. It skis like a 170 in the front and a 189 in the middle to rear. I dunno. I havent fallen In love but they are hard to sell. I tried.

Kaw, my dudes

Attachment 438234

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Originally Posted by alpinevibes

Kaw, my dudes

Attachment 438234

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I am level 1000 jealous. 20 days and 22 hours til I land in Tahoe. But who’s counting.

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Originally Posted by SoVT Joey

I am level 1000 jealous. 20 days and 22 hours til I land in Tahoe. But who’s counting.

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I bid you good tidings! Snow here has been incredible and the footage from Tahoe looks pretty stellar

PSA: https://www.evo.com/skis/black-crows-corvus-2021

Got to nocta yesterday, Corvus today and missiled a ton of chop, ferox tomorrow. Sometimes VT can play.

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Originally Posted by SoVT Joey

Got to nocta yesterday, Corvus today and missiled a ton of chop, ferox tomorrow. Sometimes VT can play.

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Pics pls.

This might have been discussed earlier in the thread but I didn't see it. It looks like the new 2023 Nocta has a radius of 21m. Previous versions had a 26m radius. I don't see any discussion of whether they actually changed the shape of the 2023 Nocta, or if they just decided to change the turn radius printed on the ski. In my limited experience with reverse cambered skis, the turning radius doesn't really mean shit. Just curious if the shape has changed or not.

Thinking of picking up some of the sale Noctas to put some KPs on for pow skiing in the resort, and afternoon side country.

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Originally Posted by Samski360

This might have been discussed earlier in the thread but I didn't see it. It looks like the new 2023 Nocta has a radius of 21m. Previous versions had a 26m radius. I don't see any discussion of whether they actually changed the shape of the 2023 Nocta, or if they just decided to change the turn radius printed on the ski. In my limited experience with reverse cambered skis, the turning radius doesn't really mean shit. Just curious if the shape has changed or not.

Thinking of picking up some of the sale Noctas to put some KPs on for pow skiing in the resort, and afternoon side country.

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I asked TG about that last spring when photos dropped and he said no change just different radius. That ski is sweet. If I had more time to ski powder I’d have a alpine and a touring nocta setup. I do run a duke pt 16 on mine and the will still hike great. I ski a 190 alpine but would buy a 185 if I was strictly touring on them. Trees are a blast on them.

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Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

Pics pls.

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Tomorrow when I get done.

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Originally Posted by SoVT Joey

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I asked TG about that last spring when photos dropped and he said no change just different radius. That ski is sweet. If I had more time to ski powder I’d have a alpine and a touring nocta setup. I do run a duke pt 16 on mine and the will still hike great. I ski a 190 alpine but would buy a 185 if I was strictly touring on them. Trees are a blast on them.

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Thanks Joey. I live in Oregon and do a few BC trips a season. I usually find myself in the trees on powder days so Nocta sounds like the ticket. Thanks for confirming the length too. For touring and tree skiing I think the 185cm likely makes the most sense for me at 5’9” and more concerns with maneuverability and playfulness than top end speed.

Joey/resident nerds: What are my options for a slightly more chargier Captis? Corvus? I'm thinking a little metal would go a LONG way in this ski, and probably some length for me (I'm on the 186 @ 225/6'2). I find myself jumping back to the Captis on a fuck around groomers/soft snow/whatevers there kind of day. Insanely fun to pop around on.....just could be better? Maybe I'm dreaming of something thats not there considering the jump is 17mm from captis to corvus.

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Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

Joey/resident nerds: What are my options for a slightly more chargier Captis? Corvus? I'm thinking a little metal would go a LONG way in this ski, and probably some length for me (I'm on the 186 @ 225/6'2). I find myself jumping back to the Captis on a fuck around groomers/soft snow/whatevers there kind of day. Insanely fun to pop around on.....just could be better? Maybe I'm dreaming of something thats not there considering the jump is 17mm from captis to corvus.

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Those seem like much more different skis than just metal and width.

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Originally Posted by sk8rat6587

Those seem like much more different skis than just metal and width.

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Yeah, I'm thinking of the camox, not the corvus.

https://www.wildsnow.com/33365/looki...d-black-crows/

a timely black crow artical from wildsnow

I prefer the Atris over the captis or camox. They claim the Atris is just a wider captis but the layup is definitely more stout. I rotate between a Corvus and Atris depending on snow and level of d bag I want to crank it up to. Atris is a lot of fun and can be driven especially on soft snow, Corvus likes to nuke.

if you wanted something with metal down in the 90-100 the serpo and Justis are there, both directional but I found the serpo too turny and the justis has so much rocker it doesn’t ski well unless on edge and being piloted.

the camox is solid, my dad skis that as a DD, but if I owned a captis I’d jump right over to an Atris and you’ll be happy. Especially on the 189/new 190.

I have the 20/21 189.7 Atris mounted on the line and this has been the first year I haven’t pulled it out. I found it hard to release the tails and not as fun as expected.

I’ve been meaning to detune the tails a bit and was considering putting some pivots on; I’ve heard it’s more centered if you mount 1-1.5cm in front of the line. I’ve never mounted outside recommended so I haven’t got a reference.


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Originally Posted by Stuntmonkey

I have the 20/21 189.7 Atris mounted on the line and this has been the first year I haven’t pulled it out. I found it hard to release the tails and not as fun as expected.

I’ve been meaning to detune the tails a bit and was considering putting some pivots on; I’ve heard it’s more centered if you mount 1-1.5cm in front of the line. I’ve never mounted outside recommended so I haven’t got a reference.


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I would venture towards user error over ski error, pivots aren’t going to make it release any more or less, ( and pivots are hands down terrible but TGR cult following). The mount point could but that’s a stretch and unnecessary to punch more holes for no reason. Try backing your base bevel off, I have a 1.5 base bevel on my Atris and it will release very easily. It’s still not a surfy experience on the ski though, nor is that what the ski is made for.

I guess mounting forward by 1-1.5cm could be helpful and maybe the Atris is too much length coupled with that width. I ski the 184 and I wouldn’t go up to a 189 because it would limit where I would want to put this ski. The longest ski (the TGR way) isn’t always the answer, In fact it usually never is.



I have messed with all of my skis heavily in the tune department and I have found myself very very happy:

Nocta 190 2 Side 2 base
Corvus 188 3 side 1.5 base
Atris 184 2 side 1.5 base
Justis 189 3 side 1 base
Corvus FB 183 3 side 1.5 base
Corvus FB 188 3 side 2 base
Solis 180 3 side 1 base
Ferox 181 2 side 2 base
Mentis 178 3 side .75 base

Hahaha thanks for that, I appreciate the help. I’ll bring it along this coming weekend to Louise and see if the change in bevel helps.

I won’t lie, I’ve always been told/subscribed/shamed into the longest ski being a bigger than average guy. Specially through here!!!

Any reviews on the Navis (not the Freebird)? I have an opportunity at a pair but can't find a whole lot of info on them.

I had a pair for a couple seasons mounted with shifts. I thought they were good slack skis at 2000 g/ski but didn't have enough beef for the resort, though somewhat better/acceptable when on edge. Traditional shape, good skis...you just feel everything.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by waxoff

Got a couple of days on the 183 Justis the past weekend.

Fuck those soft (and wide) grippy tips in cut up variable frontside conditions.

Sweet low edge angle skidded short turns, as sweet as sweet can be. But when transitioning to higher edge angles and carved turns one better hold on cause of said tips, Damn do they bend, and jerk up the ride.

Everything from underfoot and rearward felt dang on. Sweet tail flex. On current gen Griffons + RX130.

So it's either: [A] Detune the crap of a substantial portion of the tip rocker section, maybe not quite to the camber contact point, but at least halfway from widest point of tip to camber contact point. Or [B] Flip 'em. Currently undecided. Wish I could stiffen those tips substantially. Is ski viagra a thing?

Skied them back to back with 108 Wrens (184 cm, 2018, +Wardens) which behaved super sweet in the same conditions. Not as tight carves obviously. The softish flex of that vintage allows for some decent bending though, and they're calm, so calm.

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So, it's time to (try to) mitigate the above negative experience. Those tips are something else (yes, I still find them unnecessary soft) This is what I mean.

Attachment 440222

- Rocker transitions to tip upturn at blue ink mark.
- Sidecut extends uninterrupted to red ink mark.
- Widest point of tip at green ink mark.

My point is, when ski is put on high edge, the portion between blue and green ink, most certainly between blue and red ink, will grab the surface, bend the tips abruptly, and fuck up the ride.

I will give these tips a file treatment similar to what I gave the Q-Lab's tails. I.e. remove edge material (ca 0.5 mm) from green ink to halfway in between red and blue ink. Further more by completely round off what's left of the edges all the way down to blue ink, gradually reduce rounding/detune, initially to top of tape. The we'll see.

If I was to redesign these tips (are you reading this Regnier?), I would start the sidecut-to-taper transition roughly at the blue ink mark, and also move the widest point down to a point a smidgen below the red ink mark. Yes the tips would be 3-5 mm narrower at their widest point.

I still believe the tips could be stiffer on this type of ski, as a 100 mm uf ski are no floaters anyway. And in 3D snow, allowing the tips to bend towards the snow surface will only produce pseudo floatation if you ask me. Better to have dependable submarining tips, they will float just fine if you know how.

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Originally Posted by waxoff

So, it's time to (try to) mitigate the above negative experience.

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thanks for sharing - that is a quality post!

Waxoff- that’s awesome!! I don’t find the tips on my 189 overly soft but the GD ski wants to turn like a SL ski once I roll them up on high angle, like when you find the soft tip, I don’t find it that enjoyable to suddenly transition from 25m turns to suddenly 15m. I normally would of gotten a 183 in the Justis until I saw those rocker profiles and I jumped to a 189. Still didn’t make them my go to skis.

they are fun for the day after a storm when the mtn is packed full of joeys and it’s chop city. Otherwise they stay home, which is a bummer… my most unused ski by far and had such potential on paper.

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Originally Posted by SoVT Joey

I have found myself very very happy:

Nocta 190 2 Side 2 base
Corvus 188 3 side 1.5 base
Atris 184 2 side 1.5 base
Justis 189 3 side 1 base
Corvus FB 183 3 side 1.5 base
Corvus FB 188 3 side 2 base
Solis 180 3 side 1 base
Ferox 181 2 side 2 base
Mentis 178 3 side .75 base

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sorry - meant to quote this too, very insightful too :) Could not disagree more on your take on pivots though... ;)

I've been skiing some old 184 full rocker mantras. I like them but they're pretty beat, and I want to replace them. The flat/rocker based Corvus looks like a decent substitute. Is that off base?

Also, anyone have advice on length if 184 feels just about right for Mantras?