Or put it on your bike and ride. Let all those flakes fall on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
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Or put it on your bike and ride. Let all those flakes fall on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
You have to break the links so the chain can actually flex and be installed on the bike (?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver
Still lots of flakes left to fall to the ground after just breaking the wax bonds.
Don’t have the break all of them, just enough to get the chain installed.
Which reminds me, I’ve gotta re-wax this weekend.
Makes it easy to get through the derailleur.
Do any of you use an Ultrasonic to clean your chain? I boil a ketyle of water and dump it in with a good slosh of simple green. 15 minutes per side up with a couple basket shakes like I'm making fries. Pull it out, dry it off with compressed air and dunk it in the queso. I stir it around a bit, flip it, stir som more until bubbles stop forming when I stir it. Then I usually let it soak some more. Pull it out wipe it off and it's good for many tides before i need to start dripping white lightning on it. My chain is 3 years old, I used to replace it twice per year.
My queso dip is 3 years years old and looking a bit manky I've waxed at least 30 chains. Time to make a fresh pot. I'm going to use tungsten disulfide instead of ptfe, I heard it's the shiz.
Embrittlement, I wouldn't use simple green on a chain,
Try the naptha dude, trust me
and never trust someone who sez trust me
Once the chain has been initially degreased then waxed, I just swish the chain around in a few changes of boiled water for further cleanings. (Waxing with Molten Speed Wax.) Comes out super clean.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
If you’re worried about embrittlement (which maybe you should be? https://velo.outsideonline.com/gear/...imple-green-2/) you could always use the aerospace formula Simple Green.
I use simple green on the kitchen floor but not on my chain
edit: I mention embrittlement becuz i didnt know about simple green causing problems until somebody on TGR mentioned it to me recently and its well enough know that there is an aerospace formula
so I also mention it cuz we are kind of here to learn shit
naptha dude, trust me
Once you've fully degreased the chain to start your queso journey, there's really no reason to use a degreaser (like Simple Green) ever again.
That's (part of) the awesomeness of hot queso; no more greasy drivetrain. The most pre-wax prep I ever do is a boiling water dip, and usually don't do that. I do rinse my bike off after most rides to get the layer of dust off that's a part of every NM ride. Just a couple minute hi-volume / lo-pressure garden hose rinse does the job.
Interested in moving to hot waxing but someone early in this thread mentioned it did not work well for them in the PNW climate. Anyone in that area have a contradictory opinion? Is hot wax best saved for dry/dusty areas?
Yeah I'm not even sure how well simple green or naptha would work on a waxed chainQuote:
Originally Posted by Roxtar
after the initial de-greasing I've never cleaned a waxed chain
I just keep applying the squirt and the wax bits flake off as I pedal
I thot its was hot/ dry places where wax is not as good??
Oh no. Hot wax is goooood in hot dry. So good. Just a clean silent drivetrain.
Can't say from direct experience but I don't know why it wouldn't. The key is that wax creates a nice barrier from the elements, whether that's dry dust or wet mud.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpearce1475
Granted, mud is hardest on everything but I don't see why wax would be worse in it.
Reading that zero friction site, the guy says that in wet muddy, wax is still the best....until the grime has eaten away the wax, then you need to start using a more conventional lube. So if you are on a long muddy ride, carry some standard wet lube with you. The wax in wet muddy doesn't last as long as in dry and dusty.
There's a little more to that statement that should be mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by basinbeater
Yes, an oil lube will stay on the chain longer in wet muddy conditions, however, keep in mind that it's also mixing that muddy grit into the lube, pulling it into the chain.
After going thru the hassle of removing all petro from a new chain to run wax i might wax more often but I wouldn't put a petro product back on the chain,
once you go wax you never go back
Besides I think a waxed chain would last thru a ride
So in a wet, muddy climate I'm having to take the chain off, clean and re hot wax after every ride? For me the draw of hot waxing is cleaner drivetrain but also not having to lube the chain every ride...
IME hot wax is great for 2 rainy rides or 1 rainy and muddy ride. BUT you can always top it up with Silca Super Secret, which is what we did for a 3 week tour in New Zealand list year. The chains stayed pretty clean and nicely lubed after several rainy days.
On this year's trip to Scotland, however, it has rained for 14 straight days and we're just using water for lube. It's hopeless.Attachment 494898Attachment 494899
No, no, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by rpearce1475
A simple rinsing off of the mud and you're fine. That's part of the beauty. The wax forms a coating over the chain and, most importantly, fills the gaps inside the rollers.
Yes, small amounts will flake off but the vast majority will stay in place, especially where it matters.
A wet lube will stay on forever but that's also the problem. You now have a wet sticky mixture of grit and oil everywhere that will eat your drivechain alive.
I recently did a little experimenting.Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
I scooped out a few oz of the new Molten SW and let it cool/harden. I then carved it up into small pieces and mixed it with naphtha in a squeeze bottle and left it for several days.
The naphtha broke it down nicely into a thick liquid that I can use for this touch-up. Best to let it sit up overnight (which you need to do with any wax based drip on) but I now have the new WS2 and MoS2 mixture that works so well in the Molten at a small percentage of the Silca price.
the hot wax nazi's will claim its faster than dripping something out of a bottle ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by rpearce1475
Interesting. The SS is the wax emulsified in water, so it doesn't introduce any petro into the chain. I'm interested to learn what happens when you rewax those.
Do you mean: Wax, Apply SS, then rewax?Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
I just bough some SS and have applied it for the first time, as I use to just rewax once the initial wax treatment was worn.
I’m only trying the SS topup on one of my MTB chains as a test.
I’ll let you know when I rewax the SS top up treated chain.
I think if there was some petro in the mix it wouldn't freeze but its wax in water ^^ so it will freeze at -20 in my shed. For some reason the consistancey of aqueous wax is altered when it thaws so it doesnt penetrate as well, so I emailed the Squirt people who told me to cut with some water which thins it down to penetrate properly
No, I was referring to Roxtar's naptha+wax blend idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
Rewax after 5+ SS applications is the same as a rewax after none: quick rinse in boiling water and G2G. No consideration needs to be given to the fact that you've used SS over the initial hot wax bc SS is the same product, just emulsified in water.
I've heard that the SS doesn't actually do much to penetrate, but it immediately eliminates the horrible grinding that a used-up waxed chain emits, so I always have a tiny dropper bottle of it with me. An application lasts 20-50 miles of MTB, so usually enough to get me home.
That's the reasoning behind my desire to find/create a drip lube that equates to the MSW formula. It should have no effect on the mix when rewaxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
Naphtha evaporates pretty quick and clean so I don't think I'm introducing any real amount of petro to the solution.
Any chemical guys here to disagree?
I’ve been doing Silca immersion wax, that lasts about 60-100miles on mtb/100-200 on drop bar bikes in dry conditions-then SS drip every couple of rides as needed. Frequency increases as we start riding in the high country with water crossings/snow drifts/rain storms.
Re-hot wax every 2-3 months.
I experimented with Silca Synergetic this spring on the gravel bike and down in Sonora for a few big mtb rides. That stuff is legit. Very much on the clean side for a “wet lube”. In Sonora we started 2 rides with 15 steam crossings in 3 miles, then had a few hours of desert dust, and the chain was running sweet the entire ride. Evan, this stuff would have been great in Scotland.
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Yeah, the Synergetic would prob have been the perfect lube for this trip. HOWEVER, since I forgot both of our chains ("I'll just give these a last hot wax and hang them here to cool while I pack the bikes.") and had to buy new ones in Inverness, I was subject to what they had there. I bought an expensive bottle of Peaty's lube that they recommended. It is pretty nice, and the chains didn't gunk up badly at all, but it seems to wash off after a couple of hours of rain or a few miles of riding in stream/trail, so an application never lasted a full day. I'm interested to check these chains to see how much they have worn with basically mud and water to lube them for several hundred miles.
I started my queso journey last night. I used Silca Secret. Solvent soak to degrease (gasoline), flamed off, rubbed down remaining residue. Washed, scrubbed by hand again. Wax to temp, nice very thin consistency x 15 minutes, stirred/agitated frequently. Hung up to cool, back on bike.
Deraileur reallllly doesn't like it. Like there's more drag in the system not less and it sounds like dogshit. Is there some break-in period to be observed?
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Normaly I use Naptha AKA white gas which leaves the chain completely clean and dry but this time i had the LBS thro my new chain in the parts washer and then I squirted it no probelm
was this a new chain or a used chain which should not matter but maybe you had dirt in the chain ?
Are people using queso anywhere else?
I’ve got my cassette off and it got me thinking.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, right?
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First five miles can be rough and loud with a freshly dipped chain, this is normal. I’m all in on the Silca program, waxed chains are fast, smooth and quiet.
This, but also, did you -break- the wax bond between links well before installing it? Once installed I also spin the cranks backward for like 30 seconds to knock out/off some of the excess wax.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
You want to wax your cassette?Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2e
I thought the idea was that you wax anything you did not want to get mucked up. It should make it like a non stick pan, right?
Here's a couple things I've learned now that I'm running waxed chain on 4 bikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskier
If you want it to run real nice right from the start, you can break each link loose by hand. But first I start by running the chain around some 1/2" copper pipe or dowel or broomstick and pulling it back and forth. Then do the other side. Then go through by hand and move each link through it's full range of motion. It takes about 10 minutes to do all that for one chain. You might not have to do all that, but it pretty much guarantees it'll work flawlessly.
If you're running a narrow wide chain ring or have an RD with narrow wide jockey wheels, extra wax in the spaces in the chain can keep the chain from fully seating on to the teeth. Easiest thing is just to turn the crank and watch the chain come around on the chainring--push it down by hand where it's riding high, that'll clear out the excess wax.
It can all be a bit tedious at first, but you'll probably find efficiencies and stop caring as much, and then it gets better. Enjoy your clean bike!
And to your question about a break-in period: There is one, numbers have been quoted but working the links loose by hand shortens it and I don't notice any drag after pedaling for a few minutes.
If speed is what you're after, adding Silca super secret drip lube to a waxed chain that's been ridden for ~100 miles makes a chain that spins very freely.
<p>
I’m fairly new to the (hot) wax game, but I like to hit the chain with my heat gun on low (somewhere on the chainring) while making it run through the gears, etc. I don’t get it stupid hot, just enough to soften the wax. Sometimes a bit will drip off.</p>
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That said, as mechanics, we found that almost all drip on wax lubes (White Lightning was the worst) gobbed up drivetrains, and required extra steps to get clean for a higher level tune. I stopped carrying it in the shop for that reason. Sometimes it was caked on so thick on peoples cassettes, the chain wouldn't sit all the way down on the cogs. <br />
That's how I started improvising with the heat gun. (Yes, we would remove the cassette from the freehub body) </p>
I don't hot pot but I'm pretty happy with Squirt drip wax, on an indoor trainer IME the bits of wax flake off on the floor in small pieces so I used a piece of cardboard under the bike to collect the bits of wax
so I never clean the chain I just apply again after the 3rd ride and leave over night for the water to evap and the drive train runs fine, I swap in a new X01 at .75 on the checker which is about 1700 kms on an Eeb
I really have never experienced that. Granted, I havent used Silca but it has a great rep so I assume you are good there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskier
You might still have original oil gunk in the chain so perhaps rewax, this time leave it in for a half hour or so. Let it really get through the internals of the chain.
Ive never had to do as much calisthetics to break the links free as some have mentioned here. I just put a piece of 1/2" PVC in the vice and run the chain around it on both sides. Always works.