Dune may finally get its proper film treatment

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

I’m watching Foundation and Dune at the same time right now.

Can’t tell them apart.

But I love them both.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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I respectfully disagree; Foundation has taken inexcusable liberties. This shall not pass.

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Originally Posted by PB

I respectfully disagree; Foundation has taken inexcusable liberties. This shall not pass.

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Both travel to a different planet to influence the locals and have force fields around them.

Edibles don’t help.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Steam Punk Star Wars with some half-ass Marvel bullshit thrown in. Pretty cool visually, but the story is fucking lame. I mean why the fuck are they fighting with swords? Yeah I saw the whole slow blade cuts bullshit, but for fucks sake it’s the year 10,000 and we’re still playing choreographed sword fight wars?
Come on man

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You know Star Wars and a lot of that " Marvel bullshit" were actually influenced by Dune right?

If you cant gronk shields, I won't even start with the Butlerian Jihad...

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Originally Posted by PB

I respectfully disagree; Foundation has taken inexcusable liberties. This shall not pass.

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Is PB PAUL KRUGMAN?

‘Dune’ Is the Movie We Always Wanted

The blogger John Rogers once noted that there are two novels that can shape the lives of bookish 14-year-olds: “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Lord of the Rings.” One of these novels, he asserted, is a childish fantasy that can leave you emotionally stunted; the other involves orcs.

Well, I was a bookish 14-year-old, but my touchstones were two different novels: Isaac Asimov’s “Foundation” and Frank Herbert’s “Dune.”

Many social scientists, it turns out, are science fiction readers. For example, quite a few experts on international relations who I know are fanatics about the TV version of “The Expanse.” I think it’s because good science fiction involves building imaginary worlds that are different from the world we know, but in interesting ways that relate to the attempt to understand why society is the way it is.

Anyway, that’s my excuse for devoting today’s newsletter not to the latest scary developments in politics and economics but to a much happier event: the U.S. release of a wonderful, satisfying film version of “Dune” — the first movie I’ve seen in a theater since the pandemic began.

Before I get there, however, a word about the new “Foundation” TV series, which is being released one episode a week on Apple TV.

The “Foundation” trilogy had a huge impact on my teenage self. For those who’ve never read it, it’s about social scientists who use their knowledge to save galactic civilization. I wanted to be Hari Seldon, the brilliant mathematician who leads the effort; this economics thing was as close as I could get.

“Foundation” might seem unfilmable. It mostly involves people talking, and its narrative inverts the hero-saves-the-universe theme that burns many acres of CGI every year. The story spans centuries; in each episode everything appears to be on the brink, and it seems as if only desperate efforts by the protagonists can save the day. But after each crisis, Seldon’s prerecorded hologram appears to explain to everyone what just happened and why the successful resolution was inevitable given the laws of history.

So how does the Apple TV series turn this into a visually compelling tale? It doesn’t. What it does instead is remake “Star Wars” under another name. There are indispensable heroes, mystical powers, even a Death Star. These aren’t necessarily bad things to include in a TV series, but they’re completely antithetical to the spirit of Asimov’s writing. Pretending that this series has anything to do with the “Foundation” novels is fraudulent marketing, and I’ve stopped watching.


Now on to “Dune.” The book is everything “Foundation” isn’t: There’s a glittering, hierarchical society wracked by intrigue and warfare, a young hero of noble birth who may be a prophesied Messiah, a sinister but alluring sisterhood of witches, fierce desert warriors and, of course, giant worms.

And yes, it’s fun. When I was a teenager, my friends and I would engage in mock combat in which the killing blow had to be delivered slowly to penetrate your opponent’s shield — which will make sense if you read the book or watch the movie.

What makes “Dune” more than an ordinary space opera are two things: its subtlety and the richness of its world-building.

Thus, the Bene Gesserit derive their power not from magic but from deep self-control, awareness and understanding of human psychology. The journey of Paul Atreides is heroic but morally ambiguous; he knows that if he succeeds, war and vast slaughter will follow.

And the world Herbert created is given depth by layers of cultural references. He borrowed from Islamic and Ayurvedic traditions, from European feudalism and more — “Dune” represents cultural appropriation on a, well, interstellar scale. It’s also deeply steeped in fairly serious ecological thinking.

So why was the 1984 film a disaster? Because the director — yes, David Lynch — either didn’t grasp the subtlety and richness or decided that audiences couldn’t handle it. That is, he did to “Dune” what Apple TV has done to “Foundation.” For example, in the book there’s the “weirding way of battle,” which is about using psychology and deception to overcome foes; in Lynch’s film this was replaced with some kind of gadget.

The great thing about Denis Villeneuve’s “Dune: Part I” is that he respects the audience enough to retain the book’s spirit. He trimmed the narrative to reduce it to filmable size — and even so, his two and a half hours cover only the first half of the book — but he didn’t dumb it down. Instead, he relies on spectacle and spine-tingling action to hold our attention despite the density of the story. In so doing he made a film worthy of the source material.

I wouldn’t say that this “Dune” matches the vision I had when reading the book. It’s better. The visuals surpass my imagination — those ornithopters! The actors give the characters more depth than the book’s author previously had in my mind.

Will this labor of love sell to a mass audience (and allow Villeneuve to finish his story)? The early box office looks good, and this does seem like the kind of film people will see twice — I did — so sales may hold up longer than usual. But I guess we’ll find out.

In any case, all of us former bookish 14-year-olds finally have the “Dune” movie we always wanted to see. Sometimes, things actually do go right.

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

…. Pretending that this series has anything to do with the “Foundation” novels is fraudulent marketing, and I’ve stopped watching.


…

What makes “Dune” more than an ordinary space opera are two things: its subtlety and the richness of its world-building.

….
.

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Yes and yes.

I, for one, am happy that the second part has been green lit.Attachment 390477

Where can I get some spice?

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Originally Posted by Ski to Be

L of A is an all-time favorite and as amazing as the cinematography is in the Dune it is almost all CGI which as good as it is can't replicate wide shots done on actual locations like Lawrence of Arabia . The movie had a muted blue filter to it and the desert was always hazy in the background but I am nitpicking ..

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well...
Not really

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As for the visual effects of “Dune,” IndieWire currently ranks Villeneuve’s latest as the frontrunner in the Oscar race for Best Visual Effects. The director’s last science-fiction tentpole, “Blade Runner 2049,” won the Academy Award for Best Visual Effects. IndieWire’s Bill Desowitz writes: “Villeneuve’s sweeping ‘Dune’ leads the way in the VFX race as a cross between ‘Lawrence of Arabia’ and ‘Star Wars.’ DNEG created spectacular VFX for the otherworldly film, overseen by two-time Oscar-winning production VFX supervisor Paul Lambert and Oscar-winning SFX supervisor Gerd Nefzer.”

Desowitz continues, “Shot in Budapest, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, and Norway, the work is both epic and intimate, from the wind blown sand, to the raging sandstorms (done practically at the director’s request), to the flying insect-like ornithopters (requiring a special in-camera setup and backed by photoreal exteriors) to the iconic CG sandworms, which cause the entire desert to vibrate with the help of custom-built mechanics.”

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Steam Punk Star Wars with some half-ass Marvel bullshit thrown in. Pretty cool visually, but the story is fucking lame. I mean why the fuck are they fighting with swords? Yeah I saw the whole slow blade cuts bullshit, but for fucks sake it’s the year 10,000 and we’re still playing choreographed sword fight wars?
Come on man

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Originally Posted by PB

I can sympathize; I think the initial reviews broke down into geezer nerds who read the book a long time ago all raving, and younger non-book readers that that were all "eh???"

Seems to have been trending more towards the geezer nerds of late, at least on RT.

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buttahflake=geezer but sorely lacking in nerd.

It was like watching LARP’ers in some city park, with stupid costumes prancing about with cardboard swords, I mean what the fuck? In the year 10,000 no less. Jesus H. Christ, took me right out of the movie instantly.

Feudalism never dies.

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

Is PB PAUL KRUGMAN?

‘Dune’ Is the Movie We Always Wanted

The blogger John Rogers once noted that there are two novels that can shape the lives of bookish 14-year-olds: “Atlas Shrugged” and “The Lord of the Rings.” One of these novels, he asserted, is a childish fantasy that can leave you emotionally stunted; the other involves orcs.

Well, I was a bookish 14-year-old, but my touchstones were two different novels: Isaac Asimov’s “Foundation” and Frank Herbert’s “Dune.”

Many social scientists, it turns out, are science fiction readers. For example, quite a few experts on international relations who I know are fanatics about the TV version of “The Expanse.” I think it’s because good science fiction involves building imaginary worlds that are different from the world we know, but in interesting ways that relate to the attempt to understand why society is the way it is.

Anyway, that’s my excuse for devoting today’s newsletter not to the latest scary developments in politics and economics but to a much happier event: the U.S. release of a wonderful, satisfying film version of “Dune” — the first movie I’ve seen in a theater since the pandemic began.

Before I get there, however, a word about the new “Foundation” TV series, which is being released one episode a week on Apple TV.

The “Foundation” trilogy had a huge impact on my teenage self. For those who’ve never read it, it’s about social scientists who use their knowledge to save galactic civilization. I wanted to be Hari Seldon, the brilliant mathematician who leads the effort; this economics thing was as close as I could get.

“Foundation” might seem unfilmable. It mostly involves people talking, and its narrative inverts the hero-saves-the-universe theme that burns many acres of CGI every year. The story spans centuries; in each episode everything appears to be on the brink, and it seems as if only desperate efforts by the protagonists can save the day. But after each crisis, Seldon’s prerecorded hologram appears to explain to everyone what just happened and why the successful resolution was inevitable given the laws of history.

So how does the Apple TV series turn this into a visually compelling tale? It doesn’t. What it does instead is remake “Star Wars” under another name. There are indispensable heroes, mystical powers, even a Death Star. These aren’t necessarily bad things to include in a TV series, but they’re completely antithetical to the spirit of Asimov’s writing. Pretending that this series has anything to do with the “Foundation” novels is fraudulent marketing, and I’ve stopped watching.


Now on to “Dune.” The book is everything “Foundation” isn’t: There’s a glittering, hierarchical society wracked by intrigue and warfare, a young hero of noble birth who may be a prophesied Messiah, a sinister but alluring sisterhood of witches, fierce desert warriors and, of course, giant worms.

And yes, it’s fun. When I was a teenager, my friends and I would engage in mock combat in which the killing blow had to be delivered slowly to penetrate your opponent’s shield — which will make sense if you read the book or watch the movie.

What makes “Dune” more than an ordinary space opera are two things: its subtlety and the richness of its world-building.

Thus, the Bene Gesserit derive their power not from magic but from deep self-control, awareness and understanding of human psychology. The journey of Paul Atreides is heroic but morally ambiguous; he knows that if he succeeds, war and vast slaughter will follow.

And the world Herbert created is given depth by layers of cultural references. He borrowed from Islamic and Ayurvedic traditions, from European feudalism and more — “Dune” represents cultural appropriation on a, well, interstellar scale. It’s also deeply steeped in fairly serious ecological thinking.

So why was the 1984 film a disaster? Because the director — yes, David Lynch — either didn’t grasp the subtlety and richness or decided that audiences couldn’t handle it. That is, he did to “Dune” what Apple TV has done to “Foundation.” For example, in the book there’s the “weirding way of battle,” which is about using psychology and deception to overcome foes; in Lynch’s film this was replaced with some kind of gadget.

The great thing about Denis Villeneuve’s “Dune: Part I” is that he respects the audience enough to retain the book’s spirit. He trimmed the narrative to reduce it to filmable size — and even so, his two and a half hours cover only the first half of the book — but he didn’t dumb it down. Instead, he relies on spectacle and spine-tingling action to hold our attention despite the density of the story. In so doing he made a film worthy of the source material.

I wouldn’t say that this “Dune” matches the vision I had when reading the book. It’s better. The visuals surpass my imagination — those ornithopters! The actors give the characters more depth than the book’s author previously had in my mind.

Will this labor of love sell to a mass audience (and allow Villeneuve to finish his story)? The early box office looks good, and this does seem like the kind of film people will see twice — I did — so sales may hold up longer than usual. But I guess we’ll find out.

In any case, all of us former bookish 14-year-olds finally have the “Dune” movie we always wanted to see. Sometimes, things actually do go right.

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I taught the little shit everything he knows.

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Originally Posted by PB

Feudalism never dies.

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Just multiplies,
Feudalism!

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

It was like watching LARP’ers in some city park, with stupid costumes prancing about with cardboard swords, I mean what the fuck? In the year 10,000 no less. Jesus H. Christ, took me right out of the movie instantly.

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"Because that's what's in the book" isn't good enough for you? Would you feel better if the swords were light sabers?

I hate over produced sword fighting scene’s, it’s like watching modern dance, who likes watching modern dance? No one!

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

I hate over produced sword fighting scene’s, it’s like watching modern dance, who likes watching modern dance? No one!

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Idk. If the chicks dancing are scantily clad, I'll watch.

W
T
Fukity Fuuuuuuuck??!?!?!?
Sword fighting is analogous to modern dance??????????
Do you have a brain tumor?!?!?!?

Attachment 390568

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

I hate over produced sword fighting scene’s, it’s like watching modern dance, who likes watching modern dance? No one!

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Not exactly...

https://c.tenor.com/EU_RkYfsodcAAAAC/schwartz-big.gif

So while my parents had many of the Dune books I thought they were a bit too imposing for a 9 year old so my initial exposure to Dune was through another book they had in the same box:
Attachment 390579

“The parody follows a similar storyline, wherein rival restaurant-owning families battle for control of Arruckus, which is overrun by giant pretzels and the source of valuable beer.

Pall Agamemnides, heir to a dukedom, struggles to stop a conspiracy that threatens the savage, sugar-swept world of Doon, as evil powers plot to steal the wild beer growing on Doon, to control the native pretzel population, and transform Doon into a lounge-planet”


My initial reaction to the Lynch movie when I finally saw it, given how ridiculous it all seemed, was that it must be based on the Lampoon version

Not impressed.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

I hate over produced sword fighting scene’s, it’s like watching modern dance, who likes watching modern dance? No one!

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Yeah, no. Love me the modern dance. Season passes for at least a couple of years of Decidedly Jazz Danceworks when I lived in Calgary https://www.decidedlyjazz.com/.
Very entertaining, visually appealing, sometimes live music accompaniment. All and all, ass-kicking goodness.

On topic though. Saw Dune with the help of a gummy last night. Really enjoyed it and felt it was true to the book. Can't wait for more.

Jazz dance is ass kicking goodness, said no one ever. Jesus dude, take a lap.

There was a couple of scenes in Dune that I thought were pretty awesome. The scene on the warrior planet, when the dude is doing the voice as the army is being anointed with the blood from those poor bastards was killer. I also thought the scene with the Emperor recovering in the vat of oil and balsamic vinegar was pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

Yeah, no. Love me the modern dance. Season passes for at least a couple of years of Decidedly Jazz Danceworks when I lived in Calgary https://www.decidedlyjazz.com/.
Very entertaining, visually appealing, sometimes live music accompaniment. All and all, ass-kicking goodness.

On topic though. Saw Dune with the help of a gummy last night. Really enjoyed it and felt it was true to the book. Can't wait for more.

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Damn, Gary is as much a man of culture as he is a total gentleman and an awesome skier. Why am I not surprised?

Also +1 on the modern dance recc. Except watching dance makes me feel like the uncoordinated schlub that I am.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

Now that you guys mention it, I do see some thematic similarities to Dune.

https://youtu.be/so9U5Fu4v2k

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Originally Posted by Peruvian

Not impressed.

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Thank you for that biting, detailed analysis

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Jazz dance is ass kicking goodness, said no one ever. Jesus dude, take a lap.

There was a couple of scenes in Dune that I thought were pretty awesome. The scene on the warrior planet, when the dude is doing the voice as the army is being anointed with the blood from those poor bastards was killer. I also thought the scene with the Emperor recovering in the vat of oil and balsamic vinegar was pretty cool.

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That wasn't the Emperor, you malignant mangrove.

The fat shit, is that better?

Dune Part II slated for October 2023.
DV says theatrical window non-negotiable

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/10/de...234675222/amp/

Holy shit I loved this movie. Easily the best movie I've seen in years.

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Originally Posted by NW_SKIER

Where can I get some spice?

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DMT seems to be the closest parallel. It allows it's user to travel vast distances through space and time, but it is doesn't currently seem possible for humans who use it to control what places they end up popping into in the multiverse.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Holy shit I loved this movie. Easily the best movie I've seen in years.

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Saw it on the local IMAX last night. Holy fucking shitballs that was the best I've seen in a very long time. An action epic that actually allowed time and space for the audience to process and characters to develop. VFX that fit the artwork and world, not shiny and sleek but beat up, weathered, and appropriate.

The harvester scene was perfectly executed. Completely plausible as a matter of routine while perfectly setting up the sheer scale of things (at least on the 5 story screen it was impressive as all hell). And if you're not experiencing the force of the voice at 105db with some 22" subs rattling your chest, you just won't understand. The voice compelled the entire audience and was not ignored.

Planning to go see this anyway, but I do have a question. So this will only be part 1 of a 2 part movie? So where do they end up in part 1? Is it only halfway through the Lynch movie? No sand worm riding? No atomics blasting a hole in the shield wall? No knife fight with Sting? No “I WILL kill him!” No… well you get the idea.

I guess I’m the only one who LIKED the Lynch version, and watched it a gazillion times. This one better be good, or else.

This is defiantly a part one. Nothing is resolved at all.

Are we still trying to stay spoiler free?

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

Saw it on the local IMAX last night. Holy fucking shitballs that was the best I've seen in a very long time. An action epic that actually allowed time and space for the audience to process and characters to develop. VFX that fit the artwork and world, not shiny and sleek but beat up, weathered, and appropriate.

The harvester scene was perfectly executed. Completely plausible as a matter of routine while perfectly setting up the sheer scale of things (at least on the 5 story screen it was impressive as all hell). And if you're not experiencing the force of the voice at 105db with some 22" subs rattling your chest, you just won't understand. The voice compelled the entire audience and was not ignored.

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I've seen this twice now in our local small theater (it was even better the second time). I would LOVE to see this in IMAX so that I got the full effect of both the visuals and the sound. However, the closest one is 2 hours away and I just don't have the time to make that trip. :frown:
I did buy the soundtrack that I've been shaking my office with. :)

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

This is defiantly a part one. Nothing is resolved at all.

Are we still trying to stay spoiler free?

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I told my wife going into this that the end of the movie leaves almost nothing resolved. The director took a huge chance on making the first half of a movie with hopes that the response would be good enough to get the second one approved. I told her that she'll have to wait a couple years to see how it plays out (or read the book) :). She was still like "WTF, it ends there?" when the credits started rolling.

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Originally Posted by From_the_NEK

I told her that she'll have to wait a couple years to see how it plays out (or read the book) :). She was still like "WTF, it ends there?" when the credits started rolling.

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I read the book and the same thoughts crossed my mind when it ended. I would have watched a 5-6 hour long movie.

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

Are we still trying to stay spoiler free?

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Nah. The book came out over half a century ago. If someone doesn't know the plot by now, that's kind of on them. Haha. I still haven't seen the new one yet, but don't let that stop you from talking about it. DYING to watch it at one of the local IMAX's, but dad life be cramping my style. "Spoil" away!

I watched the movie in my local theater this past weekend. I haven't read the book(s) and haven't seen the previous movie or series on Sci Fi. I did have some very vague ideas about plot from talking to fans of the books, but went into the movie fairly "blind". I really enjoyed the movie. I like action flicks, but wasn't disappointed with the large amounts of time between the action scenes. I thought the movie really built the world well.

I'm also a big fan of martial arts particularly FMA as Modern Arnis is one of the styles I train. The training scene between Paul and Gurney made me smile. I immediately recognized the movements and can relate. When we train full contact we wear body armor and use rattan sticks instead of blades, but the the techniques they used were great.

I'm looking forward to part 2.

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Originally Posted by billyk

Planning to go see this anyway, but I do have a question. So this will only be part 1 of a 2 part movie? So where do they end up in part 1? Is it only halfway through the Lynch movie? No sand worm riding? No atomics blasting a hole in the shield wall? No knife fight with Sting? No “I WILL kill him!” No… well you get the idea.

I guess I’m the only one who LIKED the Lynch version, and watched it a gazillion times. This one better be good, or else.

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It's half of the book as it should be at a bare minimum. I liked Lynchs Dune but it feels like a B movie compared to this. This is truer to the book which is a great thing


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

I hate over produced sword fighting scene’s,

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this is probably more up your alley then... less production.
https://youtu.be/2-EouZi1mvQ