Salomon Mtn tech "Pin" binding

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

I think a lot of them don't know any better. Marketing doesn't help.

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I'm not sure marketing alone is the culprit. I don't think most manufacturers are promoting this type of binding for inbounds use. With retail on touring gear is in the $2000+ range, I think sticker shock alone has a lot of people skiing their lightweight touring skis as a single quiver. I did it for a few seasons when I was living back east and only able to ski a few trips a year because I didn't have space or money or the ability to transport a bunch of gear. I have a friend who ripped his ions out of his skis a few weeks ago. Lucky the screws were the weak link and not his achilles I suppose.

Why they don't go out and directly say "perfect for inbounds use!" heavier tech bindings like the Rotation, Kingpin, and Tecton are definitely marketed to inbounds skiers. Marketing copy emphasizes safety, security, releasability, etc. and they have pro skiers using them inbounds posting photos and videos

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Sorry about your girlfriend, Kevo. Sounds like a brutal injury.

So go ahead and try to make the safest choice you can. If you pick Tecton/Vipec because they might protect your bones, I get it. Totally valid way of choosing bindings. But consider if you're basing your decision based on information that originated with a marketing department, and note that it doesn't mean much for a binding to be safer "in theory." Even if you manage to crack the code and choose the safest tech binding, it probably won't release as reliably as and alpine binding, so you should try not to fall.

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I really wish someone could independently verify if the vipec/tecton thing is just marketing BS or not. I like those bindings for a lot of reasons, but got my partner on them specifically because of the "it might be safer" theory.

Evo's blurb on the Kingpins starts like this:

"Combining the low weight and uphill prowess of a tech binding with the safety and confidence of a downhill binding..."

Tecton blurb:

"...skiing performance to rival much heavier alpine bindings, the Tecton 12 makes using a tech binding for all of your skiing needs a reality."

Dynafit rotation:

"...downhill performance that rivals much beefier bindings for consistency, reliability, and snow feel."

Has anyone broken the toe-piece like this? Both toes broken on the same spot. Attachment 364073Attachment 364074

^ how did that happen?

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

Evo's blurb on the Kingpins starts like this:

"Combining the low weight and uphill prowess of a tech binding with the safety and confidence of a downhill binding..."

Tecton blurb:

"...skiing performance to rival much heavier alpine bindings, the Tecton 12 makes using a tech binding for all of your skiing needs a reality."

Dynafit rotation:

"...downhill performance that rivals much beefier bindings for consistency, reliability, and snow feel."

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evo copywriters have to say something positive about every product; they've already bought them and need to sell them.

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Originally Posted by gregL

evo copywriters have to say something positive about every product; they've already bought them and need to sell them.

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Sure but couldn’t you argue it’s false advertising?

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Originally Posted by Toddball

^ how did that happen?

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Yeah wtf....I'm curious as well...

That's a metal part of the toe, the lever is plastic. I'm assuming they yanked the lever so hard/violently that it broke the metal? And twice? Mind boggled.

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Originally Posted by Toddball

^ how did that happen?

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heavy flexing of the ski?

Don't see how yanking on the lever would do that. I bet spyderjon is right on what happened.

that is not connected to the plastic lever at all, its just the detent

unless you can pull so hard on the plastic it hits the detent at the end of its travel ?

I'm betting that tab is suposed to lie flat on the ski and got bent up by the ski flexing ?

I like to put my pole under the lever about half way up the pole and lever it up so i don't have to bend down so far

A pair of demoskis came back with both toes broken, apparently the guy ran both ski-tips straight into a rock and came to a dead stop. So probably the heavy flexing that caused it as spyderjon said. Seems like there has to be extreme amounts of flex though for the aluminium to be bent like this?

is the piece necessary? doesnt look it

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Originally Posted by margotron

is the piece necessary? doesnt look it

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It keeps the toe lever locked. Not a big deal if you don't lock your toes, but I guess most people do. The MTN toe springs are strong enough that touring with the toes unlocked is mostly fine though.

An alternative to the tips-into-a-rock hypothesis:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B7tO_D2p..._web_copy_link

the broken part is just the detent for the black plastic lever

you are suposed to lock binding s on for the skin up or the ski is likley to fall off

I havent seen that binding out of the box but I assume it sat flatter on the ski and that detent tab was somehow bent upwards

probably by ski flex

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Originally Posted by Kreemcheese

A pair of demoskis came back with both toes broken, apparently the guy ran both ski-tips straight into a rock and came to a dead stop. So probably the heavy flexing that caused it as spyderjon said. Seems like there has to be extreme amounts of flex though for the aluminium to be bent like this?

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Yikes...I'll be more concerned about his legs...didn't someone's GF tear both Achilles like that?

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Originally Posted by f=ma

Yikes...I'll be more concerned about his legs...didn't someone's GF tear both Achilles like that?

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Yeah exactly, kevo's girlfriend 2 pages back due to non vertical release I think?
Apparently he was completely fine...

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Originally Posted by Kreemcheese

Yeah exactly, kevo's girlfriend 2 pages back due to non vertical release I think?
Apparently he was completely fine...

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It read as if though they released just not before the injury happened. Not meant as a dig because the injury is a total bummer but this doesn't mean the binding didn't perform as intended. Skiing is dangerous for the lower extremities.

For DIN 'in use' testing of bindings if your setting is a 5 it can perform at a 7 and be acceptable. The range goes two settings in either direction. Of course tech bindings don't perform like alpine but a vertical release should be as close of a relatable release they can have. I do think bindings with rolling pins are more consistent than the U pin bindings.

Cody on bindings on gear talk, this one included.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BedSGuuLW58

Hi,
Anybody experience with fixing the floppy heel risers? Using the binding for around 3 years and the lower riser is really loose so it doesn't stay put. Salomon didn't help via the customer-service.

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Originally Posted by RudiHeckler

Hi,
Anybody experience with fixing the floppy heel risers? Using the binding for around 3 years and the lower riser is really loose so it doesn't stay put. Salomon didn't help via the customer-service.

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I dripped green loctite on mine plus got a ski shop with a rivet press to tighten them up. Good now

I drilled out the pivot pin and replaced with stainless steel bolt so I can tighten it over time.


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Originally Posted by riff

I drilled out the pivot pin and replaced with stainless steel bolt so I can tighten it over time.


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I love that idea! Noted for when the flop comes!


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Bump. Thinking about shuffling some bindings around with BF inserts, namely MTNs to Lotus 138s. I have the version with brakes; do I need to buy some kind of stomp block or something to mount the MTNs brakeless on the 138s?

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Originally Posted by Toddball

Bump. Thinking about shuffling some bindings around with BF inserts, namely MTNs to Lotus 138s. I have the version with brakes; do I need to buy some kind of stomp block or something to mount the MTNs brakeless on the 138s?

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There is a brakeless stomp pad that replaces the braked pad. It should come in the box with MTN bindings. If you don't have it you might be able to get replacements from Skimoco. Otherwise you can definitely mount them without the pad but you need shorter screws.

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Originally Posted by thejongiest

There is a brakeless stomp pad that replaces the braked pad. It should come in the box with MTN bindings. If you don't have it you might be able to get replacements from Skimoco. Otherwise you can definitely mount them without the pad but you need shorter screws.

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Oh yeah I bought these bindings used and mounted to a pair of skis, so no spare parts in a box. Should have gone straight to Skimo.co, will investigate there.

^^^ i like skimo and dont wanna take their business
but i haz what you need and dont need anything for em
and the jig you can use
i trust mnt labs more than shifts

I don’t know that I’d call the mounting plate a stomp pad. At least not in the way an ATK pad looks. I think my boots still float above on the pins. Am I missing something?

Attachment 400081

Still float on pins. You could install an ATK pad if you want or a chunk of plastic detailed in the 300g binding thread.


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Originally Posted by skifishbum

^^^ i like skimo and dont wanna take their business
but i haz what you need and dont need anything for em
and the jig you can use
i trust mnt labs more than shifts

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SFB, if I were still visiting my parents in SLC I would take you up on that offer. Alas, I am back in Seattle. If you want to ship the appropriate plastic bits my way, I would gladly compensate shipping + beer (or whatever) money.

Truth be told, the main reason I am thinking about putting the MTNs on my 138s is because they play well with with 22D Lynx. I might just throw the Lynx on first, and if I can tele on 138s in the glop that currently pervades the Cascades I might not bother with the MTN inserts. I do like to hedge, though.

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Originally Posted by Toddball

Truth be told, the main reason I am thinking about putting the MTNs on my 138s is because they play well with with 22D Lynx. I might just throw the Lynx on first, and if I can tele on 138s in the glop that currently pervades the Cascades I might not bother with the MTN inserts. I do like to hedge, though.

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Please tell me more. Just ordered a pair of the lynx for my blanks, but also have mtn bindings for them. Are you swapping between the two??


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Originally Posted by Laps

Please tell me more. Just ordered a pair of the lynx for my blanks, but also have mtn bindings for them. Are you swapping between the two??

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MTNs nearly share the toe holes with the front four toe holes in the 22D pattern. The MTN toe pattern is 40mm wide x 38mm long, and the 22D toe pattern is a six-hole rectangle with 38mm between the holes (i.e. the front four holes have a 38mm wide x 38mm long pattern). Additionally, the pin line location is nearly identical between the MTN and Lynx relative to the front four toe holes, meaning if you have tele and AT boots with approximately the same BSL, both boots will be located in the same place on the ski if you share toe holes.

I took off the MTNs, overlaid the 22D mount pattern, and marked/drilled the remaining holes with a normal 3.6mm bit (or whatever), then drilled all the holes out with the Binding Freedom insert bit. I went ahead and epoxied all the inserts in at the same time, but the best practice here is to allow the epoxy to cure with the binding loosely installed; I installed the Lynx for this because I figured the insert alignment would be more critical for that toe piece. This is what the total complement of inserts for the two bindings looks like: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...t=#post6439779

Attachment 390281

I confirmed that I could swap back and forth between bindings, but I haven't actually skied the MTNs since getting the Lynxes set up.

N.B.: I do not guarantee this will work for you! Clearances are a fickle thing.

That is good to know, never thought it would work but your reasoning sounds pretty solid. Thanks for the run down!


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Hi Guys,

I've read through the thread n'all but are there any issues with these like with the Shift?

Some (admittedly quite old) Dynafits have just disintegrated on me and I'm looking at replacing them with these.

Unfortunately I've been burned with the shift so I'm...nervous putting more faith in the Big S again.


Thanks

Despite what was just posted in the 300g binding thread, I think of the Salomon MTN bindings as a reliable piece of gear. In general, reported failures have been very uncommon, and the binding has been out for several years and is a mature product by now.

I've had multiple pairs on multiple pairs of skis since they came out and haven't had a single major issue.

I think there are 2 minor issues that can develop:

1. Heel risers getting loose with time. Some green Vibratite can help this if it starts to happen.
2. A little slop in the heel track with heavy use.

My most heavily used heel assemblies have just a tiny bit of side to side play if I grab them and pull, but it's quite minimal. Similarly, my risers have loosened up a little on a couple of pairs, but it hasn't been a major issue. They don't just flap in the breeze. Like I said, some green Vibratite can help tighten them up.

I've been happy with the binding. Light, simple, reliable. No unexpected releases yet. Toes jaws have good clamping strength.

If I was in the market for new bindings I'd be looking at these or something like the ATK Haute Route.

Thanks Doc :)

Rumor has it that the add'l heel "U" springs that comes with these bindings are compatible (once the plastic is removed) with this discontinued race model:
https://skimo.co/dynafit-low-tech-race-bindings
... whose Ti springs have all become notched by now, and whose replacement steel springs are long since sold out.
Here's an example request:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1481...2896577318998/

Anybody have a 3D printer design for toe shims?

I found out my library will 3D print for free, and I’m looking for a ~6.5mm shim to bring the toe/heel delta to 0.

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Originally Posted by Toddball

Bump. Thinking about shuffling some bindings around with BF inserts, namely MTNs to Lotus 138s. I have the version with brakes; do I need to buy some kind of stomp block or something to mount the MTNs brakeless on the 138s?

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Which track is on your MTN? 50mm of adjustment or 30mm?

The brakeless riser and stomp pad is only available for the 30mm track.

You can go without the riser and stomp pad if you grind down the screws but there are some repercussions:
-your skiing ramp angle will be less.
-your flat walk mode will be negative rise or close to it.
-you will be floating on the pins while skiing and will have a vague floating heel feeling like old Dynafits.


You could make a bumper that replicates the height of the brake stomp pad on the brakeless version and this would provide the best results. You can probably mount it in the unused binding screw hole after you pull off the brakes.