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What fucking year do you think it is, dumbass? Ever heard of telecommuting? There are a LOT of jobs like this nowadays and more every year. I can live anywhere I want so long as I have an internet connection... and I'm hardly unique in that sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Also, Benny, fire fighters / EMS make a lot more than you seem to think, especially when you factor in long overtime stretches fighting fires getting paid around the clock while working 24 on / 24 off shifts.
Your gig is wearing me down. I told you I'd give you the specifics and I got my tax return right here.Quote:
Hey, let's get this down to numbers, ok, because, ultimately, it's the numbers. How much did this awesome fire fighting gig pay? What was you top salary? How many years?
Wife work? How much did, does, she make. How long?
In 2015 my S corp's income including compensation of officers (me) was $60K. My wife's W2 income is around $50K working for the County. She works 32hrs (4 days) a week and has about 30 paid days off. I work about an average of 50hrs a week. In 2016 I have taken one 4week vacation to the Grand Canyon and am about to talk a 2.5week road trip. I ride my bike/fish/kayak about 2x week. I only miss powder days when I have work deadlines.
We max out her immediately vested 401K match at 4%. I get on the County insurance at $190/mo. Our only debt is our mortgage at $1,500/mo. inclusive of tax, insurance, HOA etc. We live is a too big too nice 3bd.,3ba., 15mins from the ski area.
I've got a bachelor's I paid for and a masters my employer paid for when I lived in Denver. I busted my ass for 5 years playing the game and hating it. I got a little financial security, a house I still own that is a nice rental property and a realization that the city life ain't for me.
So here I am, mid 40s living comfortably in the mountains having earned everything I got. Any other questions?
The dream is living man....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromontana
Honestly, it is kinda related. I think that the misconceptions about who "we" are feed into this whole cycle of development and tourism with little benefit to the true community. I think if the residents of the tourist towns did a better job communicating the pride we have in our communities and that we are just regular people living pretty regular lives, I think the visitors would have a little better respect and understanding of the concept that this pretty little valley is actually someones home.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
Numbers, numbers. Money taks, bullshit walks.
Work for the forest service or the county, construction, guide, open a law office, drive across the pass and work in a business in JH…etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Edit to bring it back on-topic: sell shit to tourists, open a restaurant for them.
The point is that you're ignorant of the large segment of mountain towns that is working class/middle class. We're middle class and made it work. Lots and lots of people do, and most importantly you don't know shit.
I still don't see any numbers.
Open a restaurant. You're now officially retarted, asshole.
They are up there ^^^ guy. I'm usually not real defensive, but you hit a nerve when you look at what I got and think I grew up with a silverspoon. My circle of friends is full of some of the most genuine, hardworking regular folk you'd ever meet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
You asked an honest question about how people in the mountains make it work. I gave you the numbers you requested. Are you going to process that information or are you just going to come up with some other BS misconception about what society in a mountain town is?
Put up or shut up!
While I don't agree with Benny, this one is true. Like working in the ski industry, the best way to get a small fortune in restaurants is to start with a large one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
By the way Benny, I'll be able to move to the mountains full time somewhere around 40 (when I have kids). Telecommute for the win. Would've done it sooner but the non-telecommute work is just too fun to pass up and worth the commute to ski (~none to bike) when paired with city interests that one takes advantage of without kids. I'm solidly in the 6 figures and will drop to the low 6 figures when I move. Sounds like you have a business degree though. Bad degree/career choices = hamstrung to city life.
Nor you man. You have a biz. I want to hear Skippy's numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
There are restaurants here making pretty fair bank, at least judging by their longevity (20 years or more), especially the ones catering to tourists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
Then shut up and walk, Benny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I gave you enough to know my numbers - go look up GS scale wages, fuckface. Don't forget to factor in overtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Blah fucking blah. Living the dream indeed. You should write for Outside. Such bullshit.
Seasonal fire work. Right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Certainly you can see the irony here, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Again, your ignorance is appalling. Besides my mentioning that I got into management, do you know of any double-digit GS that are seasonal?Quote:
Seasonal fire work. Right.
Consider saving some face by shutting the fuck up.
I know, thanks. I landed on my ass in butter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromontana
Unfortunately, federal salaries have gone downhill. Getting in now and getting a 1% raise every other year in a 2% inflation environment is going to leave you eating cat food by the time you retire. That's why I left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromontana
He's like the AARP grinch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I run a manufacturing company that does about 1.25 mil in revenue a year. My wife is middle management at the ski corp. We just barely cleared 6 figures last year.
My best friend here is an electrician. Makes about 27.50 an hour.
I have several accountant buds, all on salary, making between 40 and 150k a year, with the CPA's being on the higher end. Maybe even higher than that
We all live in Victor, our commutes are 25 to 45 minutes each way. Yes over the pass. No it is not hard.
Benny seems to think on the East Coast you make 100k+ guaranteed. I don't think the majority of EC guys are doing much better in reality. Maybe 5-10k difference IME on average (early 30's cohorts of mine). They spend the difference driving to mountains (or the beach), where I live here already.
Everyone starts out doing bullshit jobs, mountain town or not. Just like in the city, the ones who work hardest, and are the most motivated, make it work and live the dream. Plenty settle for a decent full time gig with enough to get by. Plenty are drunk 20 somethings. I see no difference between mountain town USA and regular USA in terms of demographics. People are just doing accounting for hotels opposed to pharmaceutical companies.
Oh man.... oh MAN! Them's fightin words! :fmicon::fmicon::FIREdevil:tdo13:Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I for one am glad that for every Meadow Skipper making it work in the mountains, there are 1000 Benny's on the East coast who can't prioritize their shit, or have the balls to move west and live what they claim are fool-hearted dreams. Else we'd not just have a tourist problem, but an overcrowded mountain-town problem.
The problem isn't just the industry. The problem is everyone and their mom thinks they would be good at it and many of those people have a go at it. If you've got the money to start, no-one is telling you you cant. Hence you see a ton of failures. The good ones make ample money. But they work way harder than 95% of the ski industry and they are talented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
It is honestly not that hard for DINK to make 80-100K with a few years positioning, hard work, and some skills/edu. They do well in the high country living dang close (Dillon, Basalt, Fraser) to the hill. It's only truly tough if you are trying to live in Aspen/Breck/etc.
The people I am most impressed with are the couples who still live it up with 2 kids without having to move to a bedroom community like Alma, Kremmling, Gypsum, or Silt.
Now that is hard to do.
There is a high country middle class, it is just much smaller than in the cities because high country middle class requires more money and there are fewer opportunities. But it exists.
I always said, if you want to do OK up here, stop drinking every night, don't show up to work high, be on time, and do more than the minimum. If you can add some skill/education to that mix, you can do well in the high country, and you can have 70-100 day seasons. Hey, but all those things are easier said than done and you have to realize some years you are going to have to drive a long way to work and that you and your wife are going to have a 40 year old 1000sqft 2br condo instead of the 8 year old 3000sqft 4 bedroom house in the burbs of Phoenix or Charleston.
I see people do it the hard way too: 25 years of patrolling/construction/odd jobs can get you in a good spot if you are tight with the cash.
So does Benny contribute more to the overcrowding since he comes 1 month a year?
I drew a picture of Benny ripping Hogan Bowl:
Attachment 188364
The successful ones do. How many did it take before the location was successful? Most restaurants out here are owned by restaurant groups. People with loads of cash (no property loans and can remodel to exactly what they want and bring in top talenf) and tons experience in building successful restaurants. To do that, you need a decent amount of money and look at it as a capital investment that you'll make back out when you sell. Its not for the random person dropping into the industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
Its a terrible choice unless your its solely a capital investment, and if thats what you're doing, rental properties are way more lucrative for the layperson.
Thread drift....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
But -- you're acting like it is impossible unless you're loaded. It's not. Just like there are indy ski makers that go to shit in a few years, there are others that are making a good living (Moment, Praxis, On3p etc). There are just tons more visible restaurant failures because there are more people interested in doing it. People overestimate their skills, make bad decisions, suck at reading the market or don't know how to run a restaurant. My neighborhood place is a fine example, and I know owners of at least 2 other similar places in Denver (i.e. they read the market well). Two first time owners: one runs front of house, one the back. $10-20 entrees. Spent a lot of time in the industry before owning. Took a loan out to buy and ready the place. Four years later they are opening another place, have paid off the loan to buy, and both saved enough to buy nice homes in Denver. They aren't getting wealthy like the big restaurant groups, but they make well above what it takes to live a upper-middle class life, and have assets. And most important to me--they have decent food and a lovely staff that doesn't turn over like most the industry.
But they work way more hours than any ski bum with dreams of pow days would be willing to.
There's plenty of pride communicated in the lives, it probably exceeds what many people call "pride. There's not much communication of "regular", because there's lots of "we're not regular, we're better than you". There's like 25 posts in a row doing that. Why you give a fuck about what Benny says, or what people living their own lives do is baffling. Yeah, there are people living on the east coast, doing their own thing. Unless you want to turn your "little valley" into a suburban shithole, be happy they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Jezus! Running a restaurant isn't rocket science. I know plenty of folks who do it well and without a group of investors. And to stay on topic, the tourism boom in CO is definitely helping most restaurants in our area.
I didn't think it was possible for Benny to seem more clueless, and to be more offensive in being so, than he usually is. But apparently it was possible.
And the rest of us are paying for it with our tax dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper
Still waiting for the numbers.
Its different in a ski town than in the city - just to name one, staffing challenges are incredibly difficult and stressful. And no, its not impossible, its really damn hard and you need some luck on your side. Theres way easier ways to live in a mountain community. I've been there before (exgirlfriend tried it for 3 years and had to get out - just wasn't as viable as other options - especially with the hours - despite having a pretty damn good understanding of the market, restaurants and deep roots in the town).Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
Like I said, its like trying to make money in the ski industry. I know people that have, but a lot more that haven't.
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Originally Posted by Summit
2X QFT how to make a living in the high country.Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
PM incoming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromontana
For fucks sake. Is everyone a trustie here? I would think that it would be common knowledge among skiers how hard restaraunts are to own. Oh, yeah, banks are tripping over each other to lend to a sector that has, what, a 90% failure rate year one? Then there's the hours. Maybe 10-12 six to maybe seven days a week, if you cook. Oh, sure, you could hire a manager or two and staff. Then it will run itself, right, while you slay pow? Oh, no, they won't pilfer the liquor stock or feed their friends. No way!Quote:
Originally Posted by shredgnar
You people are something, really. You can't hide your cluelessness. Does anybody have a real job?
And FTR, I live in a place that is more expensive than many mountain towns, so I certainly understand how hard it can be. And I left a mountain town many years ago, because I was struggling and realized that I needed to figure something out, because at that rate I was never going to own a home. But I went to grad school, bought a house, and struggle in this expensive town. And I most certainly could make it in a mountain town now, if I wanted to go that route. But the kind of work I would have to do there doesn't appeal to me so much, and I have settled in to my life here.
But I know many people who make it work. The 30-somethings and older in those towns are generally NOT drunks and ski bums like Benny seems to think, bumping chairs and scraping paycheck to paycheck. Generally, the older set in mountain communities are the people who have figured it out, who have cobbled something together that makes it work. There are govt jobs, professional jobs, trades, etc, that pay enough to get by, provide insurance and some security, etc. And maybe you can't afford the pimp slopeside house, maybe you make do with the run down ranch 20 minutes away, but you make it work.
Geebus. Chill with the fucking numbers thing. You can make 60-100K doing middle class jobs (resort, accountant, real estate, tourist-related, etc etc etc) if you have some skills. Two people can live in a mountain town, save for retirement. If Meadow was in two-digit GS scale that is no less than 60K in CO. Probably more in the 70-80K range once you talk about seniority 32-years brings plus overtime. Google is not fucking hard bro even for an old fuck like you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Believe it or fucking not, 60K is greater than the median HOUSEHOLD income in the USA. Two people making that puts you into comfortably middle class -- and in the 85% nationwide. You can live on that in the mountains, ski a shit ton, and not become an old-bitter wish-I-had.
Oh, the ironing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Yeah, but look at what you got for it. Total bargain, considering. And yeah, I pay taxes too - a lot more since I paid off my mortgage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
Did you look up the GS pay scale yet, dumbass? Here, let me help your lame ass:Quote:
Still waiting for the numbers.
https://www.federalpay.org/gs/2016/newmexico
A real job? One that by your own admission you did for twenty years while wanting to move to somewhere where you wanted to live only then to retire but even then only visit where you'd wanted to live all along on vacation once a year.... while spending the rest of your retirement telling everyone else how they're doing it wrong... all from the comfort of where you spent twenty years not wanting to be anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
That kind of real job?
No one can open a sucessful restaurant without a trust fund, just like no one can live in a mountain town without a trust fund. Funny how hard you try to tell people what they can't do while they are doing it, all while you aren't doing shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane