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Slab, to dry-stacked rock wall, to dirt. Seven Summits trail, Rossland BC.
That's some beautiful work right there ^
Thanks. Yeah, so true. Just a little goes a long way. It does irk me a bit...those that always ride but don't pitch in for maintenance.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
That is sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by kootenayskier
I am kinda one of those guys, though. I will only do maintenance a couple hours a year on the trails i ride 95% of the time, but will put in 7-10 full dig days on trails an hour+ away from me that i only ride a handful of times per year haha. I kinda figure that there is someone else from up there that digs a bunch down by me and it all comes out in the wash haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Yeah, but even a couple hours is huge imo. Anything adds to cumulative good. I enjoy building, so it's not a big deal, but I'm not big on maintenance. That is where I'd like to see the guys riding the trails we've built to pitch in. That way we can keep going on the builds. The maint is a time suck, but needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
some great work getting done in here, props to all the diggers and supporters!
Nice work on Seven Summits.
I’ll be riding that next week.
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[IMG]Attachment 240001[/IMG]
These are my Specialized riding gloves, safe to say I’ve done some trail work in these guys.
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Wrote this little piece about Gravity Logic. Yah I'm a fan
https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mt...-logic-part-2/https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...45f7ae1322.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...9eea76e037.jpg
They undoubtedly build some amazing trails. That said, they've been hired to build a few around here that turned out to be rather disappointing. I suspect there were some constraints imposed on them by the client and kinda doubt it was what they would have chosen to build had they been given total creative freedom. Not exactly sure what my point even is other than "We've hired Gravity Logic..." doesn't guarantee you're going to get a Whistler-quality trail.
When an artist isn't given creative freedom, or is given a narrow directive, you can't expect them to produce a masterpiece. I would guess they were directed to make a specific type of trail, catering to a specific skill level, with specific contraints (width, max grade, length, etc.).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
IMO, if you are going to pay a master builder to build you a trail, i think it would be best to give them a budget, a general trail type to build, and then let them have creative freedom.
That's certainly how I'd do it. Serious money was spent on these trails, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I was told that the "resource constraints" you pointed to were a limiting factor. Not to get all corporate-speak or pass the buck but routing, post-build maintenance etc count for a lot and the Utah site-owner definitely didn't buy into that ( which is their prerogative)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Dan, are you referring to 'pay to play' private or is this state, county, blm, etc paying out of pocket? I can see a gov entity just getting it done and maybe enhancing with the next budget...or not.
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Switchbacks suck, but they are necessary evil sometimes. Some backcountry machine built that will definitely not ride like flow trail in the Anaconda Pintlers that we built last summer. Curious to go back and ride it and see what kind of chunky bliss emerged after the winter.
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thats certainly part of itQuote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
i would add though that having the locals involved is a key ingredient as well, knowing the dirt, terrain, user group, and volunteer support is all just as important as wicked built trails
pro diggers cant know everything about everywhere, local knowledge is crucial to long term success imo
if they wont get used, maintained, or last then its just a waste of $, as many land managers are finding out...
been doing the normal routine at local park
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water water water
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the crew doing their thing
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pumptracks got pressure washed and getting seal coated tomorrow
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not a bad little park overall
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Slowly growing the local Primitive Trail Network.
Had our CBMBA Overnight trail building event last weekend. Reroute of 403 on the Washington Gulch trailhead side. Moved the trail off parts of private land and fully onto public lands. 90 people came out Saturday and 35 remained through Sunday to put in 1 mile of new trail.
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Before
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After
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Also big thanks to TGR for the article about CBMBA's Conservation Corps efforts.
https://www.tetongravity.com/feature...weat-and-gears
Various projects we're working on around Rossland.
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Nice rock work on that first shot.
You guys and gals up in BC do such nice work on trails, be it riding or hiking. Wish we could get that kind of work done down here in the states without the constant bickering of who is going to maintain it and needing to do all sorts of EIS, mind you the motorized trails and logging/mining/development industry have no problem putting a dozer blade to a hillside without much thought.
Nice Koots
I have been enjoying the fruits of your labor. It is very much appreciated.
Thanks
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Every job I worked on as a pro was limited by budget. Not once did the state or any bike club say, "Build us the most awesome trail you could." Building cool shit is obviously more expensive. I think this is at the heart of the anti-flow trail sentiment that is brewing back here in the east. In reality the ONLY reason trail builders back east went to excavators is because hand building was not cost effective. For the last 10 years now they have been trying to figure out how to make excavator trail look like hand built trail. Some are getting close.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
The irony for me is their layouts now are for 100 percent benched trail. In many locations if they selectively benched to get from zone to zone, and hand built old school trail where they could they would save tons of $ and time. Instead a large percentage of trail is way overbuilt for the machine and then reverts back to tighter lines.
A better approach IMO would be to machine bench the obvious sections, and under build everything else. Let the tires do the finish work and as they uncover the problem areas as indicated by trail degradation you "build out" the final solution. This model best fits the annual funding model we see here with clubs getting annual grants or annual funds from membership.
100% machine built for 100% of new trail is a scam being perpetrated on the State and the State Org. as well as the riders.
$.02
Stoke to off-set the rant. Rock work done with no tools. 100% flesh on stone. When life gives you a pile of stones.....make the trail stoned.
I've never ridden a machine made trail. I have an interest, but clearly not much of one because I haven't done it yet. I prefer challenging tech with a mix of flow where the terrain gives it to you. At the same time, I think these dirt sidewalks have their place as it will get more people out biking which will potentially contribute to a healthier, happier society and drive the economy of bike shops and the sales Reps on this board.
There's a ton of work in getting the OK for sanctioned trail very like the US process which we don't talk about much cos it's really boring and tedious. Kootenayskier is intimately familiar with thisQuote:
Originally Posted by mtnjam
Provincial, sometimes federal, sometimes private, sometimes municipal and increasingly often times First Nation.
Although thank ullr we don't have to deal with the US laws re "mechanized" prohibitions. It's motorized vs non-motorized here
That's a good rant.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Machine built trail is becoming so ubiquitous around here, the hand built option is barely even considered when new trails are being built. And I'm concerned that some of the funding sources and grants are going to start expecting the mile / dollar figures that are really only possible with a fairly uninteresting trail, built by a machine. Which sucks.
There are some guys that are getting pretty good with their machines, and they would certainly argue that they can build something that's essentially the same as a hand built trail. But as a rider, I heartily disagree with them.
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I’ve been building single-track with hand built trail crews for the past 18 years. It’s never occurred to me that the measure of success for trail building was how inexpensively you could build a section of trail, rather the subjective quality of the experience of the people who use them. Hand building enables maximum creative expression, without the unavoidable limitation of a machine having to build a mini-road for its own passage.
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Kootenayskier, how many people on your typical hand crew?Quote:
Originally Posted by kootenayskier
Curious how it compares to the contract builders that typically operate for USFS projects. Contracts go for so little for the FS it usually leaves room for 2-3 people and a machine, thus the cheap and boring machine built crap. Shit, on the Gallatin they have just been doing hourly machine work and no one even does finish work. I’ve started to think we need a full time non profit professional trail crew around here, but just wishful thinking...
Beautiful work, BTW!
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Reloaming trails
Attachment 247040
I’m running two crews of 3, full time from May through October. All keen guys, hand building (and maintaining) trail for $16-$19 p/h. We’re building new high quality, hand-built singletrack for between $15,000 and $20,000 per km, in steep, rocky, forested terrain.Quote:
Originally Posted by hick
Stu in that 3rd pic down how did you keep the soil on the side looking so undisturbed? Revegetate? Or is that sometime later. I've been trying to work on that and any tips are useful
No real tricks, just the effort to do so. I encourage our crews to broadcast debris from trail construction as far and unobtrusively as possible. They sometimes do this well, other times not. If it’s spread thinly, like here, a couple of months of growth hides everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
New trail at Marshall is coming along pretty well
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Plus they had beer and tacos up there today
Made a sketchy jump somewhat less sketchy.
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