Coyote Problem

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

our dog will go tearing after them if we let him out to pee at night or early morning...thank god our local coyotes aren't that aggressive

tho the fuckers are smart

we have an invisible fence and they just retreat out into the street while fluffy bellows at them from the yard...they are pretty indifferent to his noise and arrogantly just wait for us to take him back inside

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We have mountain coyotes that have to survive harsh winters and don't have access to ample garbage cans. Our yotes are hungry little buggers.

Last night the coyotes were quite raucous and sounded close to the barn. Have been finding a lot of scat along the river road too. When I first moved here in '08 it was crazy at night - sounded like hundreds of them surrounding the place. Coyotes are considered a pest species so it's always open season on them. Ranchers do a lot to keep them in check and I'm okay with that as they don't seem in any danger of becoming threatened. I often see them in my horse pastures in the middle of the day.

Don't get the coyote hate. They're wild animals. Of course they're going to hunt to eat. Just like your own dog would do if it were wild.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Don't get the coyote hate. They're wild animals. Of course they're going to hunt to eat. Just like your own dog would do if it were wild.

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Don't hate them but don't enjoy losing animals either. For a rancher it's tough. Coyotes lay in wait for calves to be born then grab them and run. Each calf is worth upwards of $1,200.00. That's precious income for a rancher and no, these aren't people who have their cattle up in the hills on open range. These are folks who live just outside the city limits in the unincorporated county with fenced off property and cattle within sight of the house. It's the same as a thief that steals from any business.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Don't get the coyote hate. They're wild animals. Of course they're going to hunt to eat. Just like your own dog would do if it were wild.

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Like I said, I enjoy watching them from a distance and I don't actively hunt them. But if they get within 100 yards of our house I smoke 'em. Seems pretty simple and fair for all the parties. Since enacting that policy they avoid coming that close.

What city do you live in?

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Originally Posted by iceman

Actually it does work. It won't significantly reduce the total population it it's just a local effort of course, but coyotes, much like crows (interesting article on crows learning about danger here.) are adapted to live on the edge of, and infiltrated though, human society. And they know that, like Clint said, "Dying ain't much of a living."

They learn the danger areas, and they pass that knowledge on to each other and to subsequent generations. Keep killing coyotes and crows and you'll see a lot less of them over time. There will be just as many of course but they will simply avoid you, as makes sense from a survival standpoint. If they're overpopulated locally and you have a ready food source they will risk death to eat as you might expect, but if things are fairly well-balanced locally they'll just eat soemwhere else.

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This.

And there's a reason Hippy Prof. Dan went to the NYT for his soppy letter to the editor instead of his local Sante Fe New Mexican.

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Originally Posted by KQ

It's the same as a thief that steals from any business.

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No, it's not. That's how the ecosystem works.

there's a lot of research done out of logan on some of this subject.

i live in an rural area where people raise livestock (cattle, milk cow, goat, sheep, alpaca, chicken, turkey, goose, etc.) for domestic and commercial use. There is a constant debate among these folks about how to treat the predators (black bear, coyote, fox, lion). i hear it mostly revolve around bear.

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Originally Posted by KQ

It's the same as a thief that steals from any business.

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that is a fucked-up analogy and assumes that other species understand our cultural constructions of thievery, stealing, and punishment.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

Like I said, I enjoy watching them from a distance and I don't actively hunt them. But if they get within 100 yards of our house I smoke 'em. Seems pretty simple and fair for all the parties. Since enacting that policy they avoid coming that close.

What city do you live in?

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Let me guess. You've got me pegged as a city slicker who has no experience with wildlife and can't possibly have an educated opinion on the matter. But, here's the thing. Standing on your front porch with its builder grade rusty wrought iron columns wearing nothing but boxers and mustard stained t-shirt yelling at those damn coyotes like you're Leonardo DiCaprio at the front of Titanic as if you can't be inconvenienced by the natural order of things is right out of the hick playbook.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

No, it's not. That's how the ecosystem works.

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You're right, and humans are part of that ecosystem, have been ever since we set foot on this continent 10,000 years ago. And just like a mama elk will do what she can to protect her investment in her newborn calf, so will ranchers protect their investments. Unfair for the coyotes? Probably, but coyotes are smart and their population dynamics are such that hunting them often only ensures plenty more coyotes. Short of a concerted and widespread campaign of poisoning and gassing dens when the new pups are born in the spring, coyotes in this country, even out west, are in no danger of extinction. Your sympathy is misplaced and smacks of a hubris and condescension only humans are capable of.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

that is a fucked-up analogy and assumes that other species understand our cultural constructions of thievery, stealing, and punishment.

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You've grossly misinterpreted her statement. She means the effect of predation is the same as theft.

The coyotes are not shot for violating human laws, but to stop and prevent predation.

The ideal of sustainable ranching does not include yotes taking what they please. The ideal of conservation does not preclude shooting nuisance predators that venture into residential areas.

We are the apex predator of this planet, but bounties on yotes, don't fall within sustainability or conservation ideals.

"Plenty of coyotes out there. Doesn't matter if a couple thousand are killed." Like it's all figured out.

I'm not a fan of indiscriminate killing. What can I say.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Let me guess. You've got me pegged as a city slicker who has no experience with wildlife and can't possibly have an educated opinion on the matter. But, here's the thing. Standing on your front porch with its builder grade rusty wrought iron columns wearing nothing but boxers and mustard stained t-shirt yelling at those damn coyotes like you're Leonardo DiCaprio at the front of Titanic as if you can't be inconvenienced by the natural order of things is right out of the hick playbook.

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What city do you live in?

Not relevant.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

"Plenty of coyotes out there. Doesn't matter if a couple thousand are killed." Like it's all figured out.

I'm not a fan of indiscriminate killing. What can I say.

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Coyotes understand territory. Killing a coyote on your territory to deter others from predating pets/livestock on your territory is not indiscriminate killing. The result is thousands of dead coyotes and this is a valid and justified form of controlling and deterring nuisance predators.

Offering a bounty to kill as many coyotes as possible in the wild is indiscriminate killing and a waste of taxpayer dollars.

Not into killing animals for no reason other than killing animals. I find that to be sick and twisted. At least harvest something from the animal. Trophy's don't count. That's just macho posturing. And for dog's sake apologize to it for killing it. Pest control is warranted if no reasonable option exists. Like it or not, humans have taken other animals habitats. The definition of 'reasonable' is of course the sticking point. Keeping coyote's to a 100 yd perimeter is reasonable. So's shooting off the porch wearing boxer shorts.

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Originally Posted by riser3

Not into killing animals for no reason other than killing animals. I find that to be sick and twisted. At least harvest something from the animal. Trophy's don't count. That's just macho posturing. .

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I wholeheartedly agree.

And for the record, I wear a bathrobe when porch hunting.

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Killing a coyote on your territory to deter others from predating pets/livestock on your territory is not indiscriminate killing. The result is thousands of dead coyotes and this is a valid and justified form of controlling and deterring nuisance predators.

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I'm not sure I'm reading you right. It has shown to not work on a real sustainable basis.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I'm not sure I'm reading you right. It has shown to not work on a real sustainable basis.

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Negentropy - forever messing with the notion of sustainability [emoji12]

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Originally Posted by plugboots

I'm not sure I'm reading you right. It has shown to not work on a real sustainable basis.

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Depends... the worst type of reinforcement is intermittent reinforcement. If they have as successful hunt one time, shot at the next, and nothing the third, well that won't work.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

And for the record, I wear a bathrobe when porch hunting.

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Hmmm. I think the sleeves might ruin my already crappy aim unless i was using a porch railing or other rest. Pockets are cool though. And if it is chilly out, nice to keep the breeze off the junk. I can't hunt, porch or otherwise, inside the city limits here at my humble adobe.

Well, since I am somewhat a 'city slicker' . . . what happens to the carcass after eliminating such "yote" that is within 100 yards of your porch - have no feeling either way, just curious . . . thanks!!

Thread degeneration in progress.

I think Summit has summed it up best.

If they are preying on your animals or pets then about the only thing they understand is a bullet.

However if you are like many of the shitheads around here I must say STFU, their idea of a good time is to go out into the middle of bumfuck Egypt and attempt long distance shots in the name of Sport or entertainment on a living creature that is just trying to earn a buck (as it were).

MHO.

We have had no problems though only have one year with calves. Actually I saw our herd putting a run on a coyote crossing their field. One morning I was coming by an noticed they were all bunched up together. 3 very pregnant cows( one had twins) , one cow that didn't take and nine steers all on the big side. I saw them all moving together and then saw the reason, a very scared looking coyote running away with pretty frequent looks over his shoulder. Then 3 big steers broke and really put a chase on him. In all chased him about a 1/4 mile top the back corner of the field.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Not relevant.

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Yes it is relevant. I shoot them off my back deck wearing a wife beater and tighty whities. I lost a 5yr old lab to coyotes last year. They come too close to my puppy and kids now, so my ecosystem is adjusting accordingly. Nothing indiscriminate about it. Fully intentional with defined purpose.

Coyotes are actually one of those animals whose prevalence is directly related to human habitation. Much like raccoons or whitetails.
Look up the Eastern or Northeastern coyote, or whatever it's called. They are a hybrid species that came about from America's westward expansion.
I don't like to just shoot things (except gophers, pew pew), and I would have a hard time mowing down animals that can look so much like dogs, but I get why people do it, and I don't really have a problem with it. I guess I'm just not a killer.

Just moved to a country-ish home and coyotes are around. Have young kids and a big dog albeit she's a bit older. While I'm not going to kill them, the high powered pellet gun is going to make an appearance to the give them a bit of a kick in the ass to let them know we're here.

I killed 2 coyotes this morning in my bathrobe Am I a bad person? They were 40 yards from my front porch. First time I've seen coyotes in a couple years.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I killed 2 coyotes this morning in my bathrobe Am I a bad person? They were 40 yards from my front porch. First time I've seen coyotes in a couple years.

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Only you can answer that question??? Like Stuck, I am not a fan of killing dog like animals and frankly, killing mammals bums me out, but hey, carne asada is damn good. I guess if your eating them it's all good :wink:

Hickster status quo. Lives or moves rural to be surrounded by nature only to reshape it into some distorted ideal.

I'm trademarking hickster^TM, by the way.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

I'm trademarking hickster^TM, by the way.

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I love it.... definitely stealing this.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Hickster status quo. Lives or moves rural to be surrounded by nature only to reshape it into some distorted ideal.

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And that is what pisses me off the most about people close to wilderness areas. Leave the animals alone or fucking move.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Only you can answer that question??? Like Stuck, I am not a fan of killing dog like animals and frankly, killing mammals bums me out, but hey, carne asada is damn good. I guess if your eating them it's all good :wink:

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I don't like killing animals either. Trophy hunting makes me sick. I don't like to bird hunt either, I feel bad killing a bird for some piddly amount of meat. When I am dealing with the dead coyotes I always feel the weight of what I did. I killed a beautiful wild animal that didn't have an evil intent, just was acting off of instinct looking for food or whatever. Not to say I am against hunting. I see value in it. But personally I don't care much for it.

I don't seek out the coyotes. I don't go up in the hills looking for them. I don't bait them. I don't use calls. If they're not near the house, I don't shoot them.

But the coyotes are a threat to my dogs that I care very much about. They have more value to me than a random coyote.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Hickster status quo. Lives or moves rural to be surrounded by nature only to reshape it into some distorted ideal.

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agreed.
like the nature, but only on their own terms. So much of this garbage in these parts.

dadgummit, you'd think we were in the mountains!


... hickster .. ha! win.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I don't like killing animals either. But the coyotes are a threat to my dogs that I care very much about. They have more value to me than a random coyote.

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If I had a place on the edge of a wilderness area, I sure as hell would have a good chunk by the house solidly fenced off for the fur kids and I am pretty sure my two would stand up against a few yotes.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Hickster status quo. Lives or moves rural to be surrounded by nature only to reshape it into some distorted ideal.

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What basis do you have for your ideal of what it means to live with nature, city boy?

(and no I don't shoot the coyotes, I'm 50 yards from the USFS, but I don't have any pets, actually it is kind of nice they usually stay higher which allows the fox population to survive in the valley)

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

Yup. If you have seen what a pack of coyotes will do to a family dog, baby deer or calf they aren't so cute. We have had coyote packs actively try to lure our dogs into the woods at the edge of our field. They will send a pup out in the field that makes "let's play" noises all the while the pack waits in the woods, ready to kill. It's happened multiple times now.

I do enjoy seeing them at a distance, much as I enjoy seeing the deer, bear, etc that come through our field but if they get close to the house I kill them.

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True dat. We watch this exact scenario go down from my neighbor's deck.

Neighbor breeds of Border Collies and there was a young coyote in the meadow "playing". A dog takes after the coyote and when it hit the middle of the meadow two adult coyotes started flanking the dog from behind the ridgelines. Fortunately the dog had a sense that something was up did a quick 180 and hightailed it back to the house. I guess it's true what they say about Border Collies and intelligence.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Hickster status quo. Lives or moves rural to be surrounded by nature only to reshape it into some distorted ideal.

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You didn't read a word of what I said, did you.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

I don't like killing animals either. Trophy hunting makes me sick. I don't like to bird hunt either, I feel bad killing a bird for some piddly amount of meat. When I am dealing with the dead coyotes I always feel the weight of what I did. I killed a beautiful wild animal that didn't have an evil intent, just was acting off of instinct looking for food or whatever. Not to say I am against hunting. I see value in it. But personally I don't care much for it.

I don't seek out the coyotes. I don't go up in the hills looking for them. I don't bait them. I don't use calls. If they're not near the house, I don't shoot them.

But the coyotes are a threat to my dogs that I care very much about. They have more value to me than a random coyote.

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That's deep. Well spoken.

I dunno about deep exactly. He likes his dogs. He's chosen one way to try to protect them and is defending his choice. I'm not saying his choice is necessarily wrong but there are other choices.