Pretty sad how hard the brands are working to convince everyone to buy new boots because buckles are dead. Pretty damming opinions starting to form by boot fitters and shops on the topic and the utter stupidity of BOA FOMO.
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Pretty sad how hard the brands are working to convince everyone to buy new boots because buckles are dead. Pretty damming opinions starting to form by boot fitters and shops on the topic and the utter stupidity of BOA FOMO.
This is peak technologyQuote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
goddamnit, public servants like you are what make this country specialQuote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
remember that the customer can only buy what you sell
Remember too we can only build what we can sell. It’s a two way street.
Tom was a legit core bootfitter for 10(?) years before his role now. I think he knows what the people want and need as much as anyone here.
Seems more like opinions are mixed. Maybe you just pay attention more to the ones that will validate your opinion on something you have not tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by mff353
Well, before last season, I bought the Hawx with the buckles instead of boa because I didn’t wanna be an early adopter to a new product. But then I put zip fits in there mid-season, and I think I would probably prefer the boa on the lower.
Anyway, this happens all the time with new products and generally just sorts itself out. People still argue about batteries on the SRAM deraileurs and I’ve had it for so long, I forgotten about it, cause it works so effing well.
From bootfitting on the frontlines at the bar of a ski hill that is very demanding I can tell you that I’ve had:
- maybe 1 person walk in and ask for BOA
- very few people ask about weight on hybrid and alpine boots
- single digit percentage of people ask about price
How easy a boot is to put on is far more common of a question and it is one of the lowest ranked metrics of a boot sale that determine the sale.
I don’t buy what boot companies tell me is the important pitch for ski boots.
You also to be fair work in a very specialized shop at a small freeride hill. Go work at a large resort like whistler or banff and you will 100% have a different perspective.
Hmmm. I’m gonna agree with golden bc on this one. As an old man skier, I’ve helped dozens of people buy ski boots and I agree with him. Nobody’s asked those questions. It’s basically “I need new boots”, then fitter says “Why?”, and then it’s fit based on those parameters. I am, and prolly TRG, are outliers in that I know before I get to a shop, if I go at all, what I’m getting.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
What are the questions in Banff and Whistler?
OK it’s prolly just “get the red ones.”
So I spent 15 years fitting boots for a whole range of skiers for first timers who may be ski 5 days a season to athletes at the Olympics. The average consumer is the first not the athlete. Weight, comfort and price are big concerns for these people. This is the reality of the ski industry. As much as we would love to be making 130 and 140 flex boots for the highest level skiers if that’s all we did we would not be in business. The 90-110 boot is what rules the industry and the needs of that skier are far different than the average tgr forum user.
But all that said more often than you would imagine what will work for this consumer is also great for the best skiers. Racers are there own breed but fitting freestyle and freeride athletes really does align pretty much with what the average consumer needs. In listening to what the average skier needs does not mean we are not also making choices for the very best they are just much closer than some here may believe.
I did bootfit in Whistler.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
Also, there’s lots of punters buying boots at kicking horse. Most of my customers don’t shred. The difference is I am 3 meters from the gondola so no one hesitates to come in the door and give immediately feedback.
Of course different markets are different but you and I create the markets, not the opposite. People ask for boa if you tell them to ask for boa. People buy high volume boots if you sell the high volume boots. People ask for light gear because brands hype light gear. I believe the same is true at a ski shop down town New York. People ask about things they have been primed to ask for. Throw in a staff that can intercept that thought process and the narrative can be changed immediately.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I also think it could be said the other way, that the average consumer has very similar needs to freeride skiers. They need a boot that gives them control of their skis and reduces fatigue, while being comfortable enough to ski in all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
So if BOA does this, why is it bad again? Not to you specifically, but in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Exactly and this is why athletes are getting behind boa as soon as they try it we are finding. People forget athletes often need to be out in their boots all day long in any and all conditions. It does not matter how well a boot skis if they can’t bare to be in them all day. So if we can build a boot which performs how they need but is actually comfortable to be in all day it’s win win and this is what we are finding boa is really helping us to do.
All this boa fear had me riled up and made me get the last solly pre boa shift for cheap to get a boot without boa that fits me and to get out of my beast binding cage with a second pair of boots.
I also got the atomic hawx boa boot ( yeeah.... without testing just because I get them for free. Dumb me.). Unfortunately I couldn't get to the boa testing part....
Non boa sad diary: But apart from the fit I don't get the idea of making the boot concrete hard in the boa section and rubber in the upper section. But that is probably an atomic and not a boa problem. The fit thing is kinda sad because Salomon are the only boots that seem to fit my foot and only need minor adjustments. And since no boot shop around here has any boots I'd like to try I just order something from time to time from our partners at Powderguide and hope I can get away from my Salomon addiction ;)
And hanging out in boot shops after my ski days is also difficult because I usually don't ski resorts big enough to have a decent one.
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Buddy broke a buckle and a boa on the Mango Fischer 140 w tech toe. Doesn't like boa.
^^ but boa is infallible
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> breaks buckle and BOA> "BOA is the problem!"This hate of BOA is becoming a fixation for some of you. Don't like BOA? Don't buy BOA boots.Some of you have never even tried them but just hate them because they are different.Other that tried and didn't like don't realize that different people like different things.Almost as if there is a whole wide world out there or something.Funny how this "conversation" (i.e. bitching and moaning) mirrors the late 90s and parabolic skis.BOA could end up being not even being in ski boots in 10 years and I'd say it was still a worthwhile attempt because at least someone was trying something.Carry on with the geezer talk gentlemen. I'll see you out on the slopes.
^^ git off my lawn
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Posters in this thread: BOA options on the market are fine, just don’t prematurely get rid of 4 buckle options
Tragicsolitude: if yOu donT liKe Boa, simple, donT bUy it1!!!
For real.Quote:
Originally Posted by mff353
I am trying the new double boa cortex tomorrow... But, even if it is the panacea that the marketing team promises, I still think we should have buckle options.
Buckle options, yes. Report back with your boot test results. Nobody is saying no BOA, but BOA doesn't need to be the only option. I hope the double cortex BOA works out for you.
Here's where the issue with "options" comes into play. I'm only going by what tom has posted so keep that in mind we are speaking to k2. It costs k2 double to keep the tooling for buckles and boa. So their production costs are double. Companies are in the business of making money and keeping costs down. Now according to Tom's data for k2 their athletes prefer boa over buckles as a majority. Their sales data is showing that boa is selling far better than buckles even while buckles are still current majority of what's on the shelves in shops. . More customers are choosing to buy the boas. So their althetes prefer it, according to sales customers prefer it and according to their data it performs better as well. So why would k2 spend double the overhead production cost to keep both options available across all lines for the minority who are basiclLy clutching pearls and affraid of change. I can't remember what he said the percent was of current sales for one vs the other but i remember him saying boa is far outselling buckles. So if majority of the profits are coming from boa sales and buckles are by far the minority where does it make business sense to spend equal amounts to keep producing both style of boots? It just doesn't. I understand people don't like change, and people who are set in their ways of they just like buckles and don't want to believe the data that boa is performing better are clutching onto their buckles. That's just not a reason for a company to keep their production costs higher because a minority of people just don't like change. As has been said if you just don't want to accept the data that boa is better that's fine. Stock up now on buckle boots while you can, but expecting companies to keep producing them and keeping their production costs higher than needed just because you're affraid of change literally makes zero sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by halliday