The Official Great Pacific Octopus Thread

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

I think this can be said about almost every ski I own. But I think the BG skis like it has a longer turn radius than stated (29.X). It certainly feels longer than the Renegade's 35 m turn radius.

Out of curiosity, have you skied the new 12.13 BG with the RES? I haven't skied the old versions, so I can't offer a valid comparison, but I can say that this one is shaped much differently than the previous versions without RES. Much less taper.

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No, I need to connect with PowTron sometime soon to try it out (same BSL). I meant to do that this month, but I blew my ACL last month, so I can't really give it a fair shake. To know if I want it or not, I need to be able to ski tight tree lines with cliff drops - without an ACL that just won't happen. The old BG is money for that kind of stuff, and thats about all I do mid-winter (too dangerous in CO for big lines), so its super important for me. I'd also prefer to be on a 186.

In dense uncut snow (alpine pow), at top speed, the old BG has a bit of a wobble effect that I'd like to get rid of, but still maintain its overall characteristic manueverability in trees. If it gives up too much, I'd rather just have another ski in my quiver.

Have you ever felt that wobble effect on any ski before? It only happens at high speeds. Wondering what you think the cause of it is? It's like someone is grabbing the tip and tail and swiveling it side-to-side on the snow very slightly. I always thought the lack of shape of the Renegade would fix it, but I'm not entirely sure - it could be the extreme pintail (140/115/120) thats doing it too. It's definitely scary feeling it knowing that I don't have an ACL to protect my knee right now. I picked up some Wrenegades for cheap to try it out as an alpine pow ski as a quiver solution - planning on trying em out as soon as those SAC STHs come in.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

No, I need to connect with PowTron sometime soon to try it out (same BSL). I meant to do that this month, but I blew my ACL last month, so I can't really give it a fair shake. To know if I want it or not, I need to be able to ski tight tree lines with cliff drops - without an ACL that just won't happen. The old BG is money for that kind of stuff, and thats about all I do mid-winter (too dangerous in CO for big lines), so its super important for me. I'd also prefer to be on a 186.

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I'm sure you know this, but the 12.13 186 has RES.

Regarding the trees+drops: the 12.13 191 BG (w/ wood veneer) is the most stable landing platform I've ever owned. I may be wrong, but I can't think of a single drop this season from which I didn't ski away cleanly when I was on the 191 BG. There have been some drops after which I was unable to keep it together, but that ski stomps landings like nothing else I've tried. Little anecdote: I accidentally hit a small cliff (15' or so) at speed and sailed a good 50-60 feet -- thought I was gonna blow up the landing for sure. The skis did the work for me on that one, and I was able to land and shut it down before the next patch of trees...just barely, but it worked out fine. The swing weight isn't perfect for throwing 3s off cliffs and stuff, but they're just so easy to stomp that I don't notice it, particularly compared to the Renegades. The Rens are fine if I'm just straight airing things, but my skills when tricking aren't good enough to ensure I land perfectly centered every single time.

OTOH, the Rens are slightly easier in low-angled tight trees, where it's possible to open it up a bit and run bases flat down the fall line, because they pivot side-to-side so damn easily. If you watch Hoji ski in that kind of terrain, you really get a feel for how the skis like to be skied -- when doing it right, I really feel like I'm channeling my "inner Hoji," which I know sounds super corny, but I've never felt that way with another pro model...it's just the way those skis were meant to be skied -- very bouncy with lots of lateral motion. The BG gives up a little bit maching through tight trees because it's harder to shut down, but it still works very well. After I switched to a stiffer pair of boots (Scorpion 130), got my hands up (thanks Gordy camp!), and started skiing more from the driver's seat than a neutral stance, I started to love the BGs more than the Rens. YMMV and all that.

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In dense uncut snow (alpine pow), at top speed, the old BG has a bit of a wobble effect that I'd like to get rid of, but still maintain its overall characteristic manueverability in trees. If it gives up too much, I'd rather just have another ski in my quiver.

Have you ever felt that wobble effect on any ski before? It only happens at high speeds. Wondering what you think the cause of it is? It's like someone is grabbing the tip and tail and swiveling it side-to-side on the snow very slightly. I always thought the lack of shape of the Renegade would fix it, but I'm not entirely sure - it could be the extreme pintail (140/115/120) thats doing it too. It's definitely scary feeling it knowing that I don't have an ACL to protect my knee right now. I picked up some Wrenegades for cheap to try it out as an alpine pow ski as a quiver solution - planning on trying em out as soon as those SAC STHs come in.

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No, I've honestly never felt that phenomenon. But I've never skied something super pintailed and tapered for any length of time.

But really, we should get out of the GPO thread with our Billy Goat and Renegade talk.

PS. Vibes on the ACL. Sucks, mang.

Edit: My 191 BGs are the stock layup with wood veneer. I was talking to Scott the other day, and he said the wood veneer basically acts as another composite layer because there's another layer of epoxy on top of the wood. So, apparently, they're stiffer than stock by a non-trivial amount. Since I'm not a huge guy (165#), he said he'd have recommended the tour layup if he'd known that then. Obviously, I love the skis and wouldn't change a thing, but it's worth noting in the review.

auvgeek, suprechicken - could either of you perhaps do a quick compare/contrast of the 192 GPO and 191 BG? I have a feeling the BG is more what I'm looking for as an upgrade to my Squads, but the ridiculous presale price of the GPO is oh-so-tempting...

@roQer - the gpo is great. It's absurdly easy to ski in bumps and variable snow, and I think it's more stable than the 190 Bibby in straightlining high speeds. Awesome float. Never been on the el dictator. But I spent some good time on the RPC, and the gpo has just as high a speed limit without any of the punishment you take in variable conditions. I also think it floats better than the RPC in deep snow.

@adrenalated - I don't think you'd go wrong either way. I love both skis. I've never been on the squad. The billy goat is a little more stable in suboptimal snow and is a little more work. Gpo is the much quicker ski and I think it's a lot less work at slow speeds and in tight spaces. Both have great landing platforms, but the goats are better. The res is a little surfier, but I have yet to sink the tips of either ski riding forward in some pretty deep snow. If I were guaranteed 3d snow, I'd prefer the goats. If i have unknown snow conditions, I'd prefer the gpo. Hardpack, park, bumps - all advantage gpo. Gpo is quicker edge to edge. Neither seems to have a speed limit. Gpo is probably a little more predictable, and maybe that makes it boring. It's not as much of a tank as the squads. It's a light, nimble ski without any noticeable sacrifice in stability. If you want to feel some meat under your feet - billy goats. If you want something that's just as or more versatile with equal stability and float of your squads - gpo. I like light, quick responsive skis and I couldn't resist the presale pricing, so I own gpos. With auv's generosity and proximity, it made very little sense to purchase billy goats this year. That said (since I don't mind having a sizable quiver), i am likely to pick some up next year. Still choosing tour vs standard layup. That's absurd overlap with the gpo and gambit and Bibby. I have a problem. Whatever. Eventually, I'll find the one that decimates the quiver and there will be one hell of a sale that day.

Hope that helps? Any more specific questions?

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

it made very little sense to purchase billy goats this year. That said (since I don't mind having a sizable quiver), i am likely to pick some up next year. Still choosing tour vs standard layup. That's absurd overlap with the gpo and gambit and Bibby. I have a problem

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My god, your "problem" aside...how the hell do you pick a ski on a given day?

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

@roQer - the gpo is great. It's absurdly easy to ski in bumps and variable snow, and I think it's more stable than the 190 Bibby in straightlining high speeds. Awesome float. Never been on the el dictator. But I spent some good time on the RPC, and the gpo has just as high a speed limit without any of the punishment you take in variable conditions. I also think it floats better than the RPC in deep snow.

Hope that helps? Any more specific questions?

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So, maybe apples to oranges here, but have you skied EHPs? Considering picking up a pair of 187 GPO in either a med or med/stiff. Want a ski that can replace my 186 ehp as a do it all ski with dukes.
What I like about the EHPs: stupid easy, playful, not great for carving, but extremely predictable on hardpack / icy spots

What I would like in addition: a bit more float in funky crusts, a bit better on groomers, a bit more stability in heavy crud. But still easy to throw around, and predictable.

I have 190 BCs in med/stiff, an I love them. Not sure why I would consider the GPO in a medium, I just do. Will have to send Praxis a mail I guess.

I haven't skied the ehp, but i have skied the think I everything but deep snow, the

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

auvgeek, suprechicken - could either of you perhaps do a quick compare/contrast of the 192 GPO and 191 BG? I have a feeling the BG is more what I'm looking for as an upgrade to my Squads, but the ridiculous presale price of the GPO is oh-so-tempting...

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I've only skied the GPO for a few runs, so I hesitate to review it. But since you asked, I could sum it up in a word as: underwhelming. It's not that it did anything poorly, it was just...there. I want a ski that is going to push me to new heights, and that ski doesn't do it for me, personally. HOWEVER: I skied chicken's version which is 192, med-stiff, carbon, mounted on the dimple. Personally, I'd like it stiffer and damper with more ski in front of me. A non-carbon version in a stiff flex mounted 3-4 mils [Edit: centimeters] back from the dimple might ski extremely similar to the 191 Billy Goat.

I think chicken and I have different styles in certain respects. The stock, carbon GPO might not have a top speed, but it doesn't inspire me to ski at my top speed, if that makes any sense. The same is true as a landing platform: the differences would be magnified on bigger airs at higher speeds where you're pushing the limit of your ability to keep it together. For the record, though, I haven't dropped anything over 10 or so feet on the GPO so that's just conjecture. If the idea of getting the GPO in a stiff construction, non-carbon and mounting behind the line sounds like your style, you'll be happy on the Billy Goat. If the thought of that scares you, the BG might not be your cup of tea. If you plan on using it for mainly variable conditions, just know that the BG does like to run, and it runs pretty damn fast.

Also, the RES in the BG makes it ski super loose in the pow (in a very good way). Almost like a real R/R. Feels curiously similar in looseness to the L120 spoon in untracked. I didn't use the 202 L138s that I love so much at all this season.

Edit: My 191 BGs are the stock layup with wood veneer. I was talking to Scott the other day, and he said the wood veneer basically acts as another composite layer because there's another layer of epoxy on top of the wood. So, apparently, they're stiffer than stock by a non-trivial amount. Since I'm not a huge guy (165#), he said he'd have recommended the tour layup if he'd known that then. Obviously, I love the skis and wouldn't change a thing, but it's worth noting in the review.

That wasn't useful. Sorry. I have skied the 186 ren. I tend to ride my tips, so I prefer the gpo in everything.

Better on groomers? Oh yeah. They lock in

Variable snow? Yup. Point it, have faith and they reward

Crusty float? Yup. Unsinkable.

They are super easy to throw around. Coming off my gambits, I actually have overturned these and missed a tree opening I was shooting for. Check out my gpo porn video. Some tight trees in there, and they are total pivot machines.

That was all with 192s. Hard to imagine you not loving the 187.

TripT - it's not that tough :)

187 med/stiff with stained glass top sheet ordered! So stoked for these!

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

A non-carbon version in a stiff flex mounted 3-4 mils back from the dimple

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I think 4mm would be too much. 3 is money.

;)

Even more so, because mil = .001"

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Originally Posted by davieboot

Even more so, because mil = .001"

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Nope, 0.001" would be thou as in thousanths, not mil. [/machinist dork]

Mil is the same thing as a thousandth. As in the Spanish word for thousand, and millennium. I don't work with every machinist in the world, but the ones I do all use mil.

I thought it meant millimeter.

dorks :D

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Originally Posted by davieboot

Mil is the same thing as a thousandth. As in the Spanish word for thousand, and millennium. I don't work with every machinist in the world, but the ones I do all use mil.

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Huh, grew up in a machine shop and never heard that, but don't doubt ya.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand...
Thanks auvgeek and chicken for the comparisons! Very helpful, especially since I've skied the BG and think it's one of the best skis on the market. Was originally trying to get one ski to do it all (with inserts). Now I'm thinking of going gear whore style with 187 carbon GPO with Dynafiddle for a dedicated BC rig and 191 BG with Guardians for inbounds/sidecountry crushing...

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Huh, grew up in a machine shop and never heard that, but don't doubt ya.

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davieboot speaks the truth. Thou is the germanic root for 1000, while mil is the Romance-language root for 1000. (Clearly, I meant cm in my post. That's what I get for posting hastily at work.)

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I've skied the BG and think it's one of the best skis on the market. Was originally trying to get one ski to do it all (with inserts). Now I'm thinking of going gear whore style with 187 carbon GPO with Dynafiddle for a dedicated BC rig and 191 BG with Guardians for inbounds/sidecountry crushing...

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If cost weren't a factor, I honestly think the perfect two-ski pow quiver would be 189 DPS L120 spoon w/ tech binders and 191 BG w/ FKS or CAST touring system, if you really need to tour on it. I've said it before, but the spoon L120 skis quite similarly to the 191 BG in untracked. Would also highly consider the PM Gear Kusalas for it's versatility, which is definitely necessary in a touring ski. The edge hold on that ski is unreal for it's 122 mm waist. I'd feel way more comfortable fat-boy dropping a committing line on that ski than the L120 spoon if snow conditions were unknown.

Damn, I really need to get out of this thread with my talk of other skis. The GPO is an excellent ski, and I think it'd make a great quiver of one. I also really want to ski a pair with the changes that I mentioned above. It's awesome that Praxis is the only company offering custom skis at extremely reasonable prices.

damnit zak, everytime i settle on a ski you ruffle my feathers. has anybody been on both a GPO and a Cochise? of the larger variety preferably?

Woap.

Need to add something else: my 191 BGs are the stock layup with wood veneer. I was talking to Scott the other day, and he said the wood veneer basically acts as another composite layer because there's another layer of epoxy on top of the wood. So, apparently, they're stiffer than stock by a non-trivial amount. Since I'm not a huge guy (165#), he said he'd have recommended the tour layup if he'd known that then. Obviously, I love the skis and wouldn't change a thing, but it's worth noting in the review/comparisons.

Echoes what Keith told me about his wood topsheets (gorgeous BTW). As I understand it, he adjusts the base layup to get the right flex as ordered with the wood on top. But there's that thread drift again...

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Originally Posted by spindrift

Echoes what Keith told me about his wood topsheets (gorgeous BTW). As I understand it, he adjusts the base layup to get the right flex as ordered with the wood on top.

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Keith's attention to detail never really surprises me, but always reminds me how awesome he is at his job.

I'm outta this thread till I buy the ski it's about.

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Originally Posted by shroom

damnit zak, everytime i settle on a ski you ruffle my feathers. has anybody been on both a GPO and a Cochise? of the larger variety preferably?

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I've skied the 193 Cochise and own 192 gpo carbon.

For very different skis they ski pretty similar. Both have that high speed stability that you can shut down easily. Gpo is easier to whip around in tight places and billygoat. Cochise might have a little better stability machloony speeds in stiffer snow. Gpo surfs powder better.

sent from the future using my mind powers

^^ sweet, i was led to believe the cochise would offer a damper, more stable ride at speed, which is what im after. appreciate the comparison.