Intuition liners

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I'm looking at some FTs with intuition. I have the right shell size (27.0- 310bsl) but faced with the choice of 27.0 or 27.5...was there a consensus of bigger versus smaller when the shell size is the same, and the intuition liner is half size difference (i.e. when buying new dalbellos or FTs). I tend to have wierd nooks and crannys along my lower legs and ankles that get sloppy in a boot when it becomes packed out...

I know I read a few people debating whether to go with the smaller intuition or the larger one...but can't seem to find the thread or how it was settled...

I am not talking about sizing up to a liner from or for a different shell size, only trying to choose between a 27.0 and 27.5
__________________
חירות ski free

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Intuition only sells full size Power wrap (Not half size)

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How do I dry them after skiing
real wet and they are not drying after pulling them at night
not supposed to use dryers on them so ???
Help appreciated

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I also got an answer from Intuition on what to do to dry the liner out (Power wrap).

Stuff with paper towels or use air only (no heat dryer)
Now why didn't I think of that.....

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Originally Posted by whyturn

Intuition only sells full size Power wrap (Not half size)

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Because it doesn't matter. There's so much stretch/shrink going on with the Ultralon foam that it's just not necessary to produce half sizes. The only real consideration in choosing a size is how tight your shell fit is and how much volume you need to make up around your leg/ankle/foot.

Tip for remoulding toe box -
I got new Hi Def Intuitions but the toe box was still too tight so I made my own fatter toecap and remoulded by just immersing the toe in almost boiling water (used meat thermometer) for about 3 minutes. Foot in liner then liner in boot. I also put the shell in front of a space heater ahead of time to warm it up and make it easier to open WIDE.
Very accurate temperature control plus only heated exactly where I wanted.

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Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie

It's the old problem of different manufacturer's sizings fitting different. Merrell shoes & boots fit perfect at a size 10. Nikes fit me best at a 9.5. I recently bought a pair of Vasque hiking boots that fit best at size 9. And now these Dynafit boots at size 8. Best to not worry so much about the designated number and concentrate more on what actually fits, I'm thinking.

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Yes this is the promblem, when I tried to order shoes from amazon or zappos this is the the main issue that I worried about. I know they have return policy but it must be better if they have all same stardard for shoes size.

nice, i got a crease in one of my heels when molding the other night, might try this to fix that

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Originally Posted by whyturn

I also got an answer from Intuition on what to do to dry the liner out (Power wrap).

Stuff with paper towels or use air only (no heat dryer)
Now why didn't I think of that.....

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I take my powerwraps out of the shell & leave the footbed AND liner separated on top of the hot water tank ...it doesnt take much heat to dry them out and they are dry by morning

One other thing is that since I got clear plastic shells I can see how much condensation happens AFTER you get off snow & take the boots off ,if you leave the shells in a cold trunk overnight you won't get condensation and you can just bring the liners inside to dry OR bring the whole boot inside & pull the liners

Read about everything here on the intuition liners,still have a question:

Scarpa Intuition Speed(wrap around) iners : Yay or nay?

Some people say they are softer than powerwraps ,some say stiffer.
They are be the 2 layer HD EVA,with silicon grip in the bottom.

1.Any first,or second hand experience if they are performance vise equal to powerwraps?
2.Thickness wise,are they closer to 12mm or 9mm plugs?
3.Any other unforseeable oddities in the liners as they are manufactured for scarpa?

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Originally Posted by Sparwood Dave

Tip for remoulding toe box -
I got new Hi Def Intuitions but the toe box was still too tight so I made my own fatter toecap and remoulded by just immersing the toe in almost boiling water (used meat thermometer) for about 3 minutes. Foot in liner then liner in boot. I also put the shell in front of a space heater ahead of time to warm it up and make it easier to open WIDE.
Very accurate temperature control plus only heated exactly where I wanted.

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This sounds like a less fuckupable process than spot heating with a heat gun. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Sparwood Dave

Tip for remoulding toe box -
I got new Hi Def Intuitions but the toe box was still too tight so I made my own fatter toecap and remoulded by just immersing the toe in almost boiling water (used meat thermometer) for about 3 minutes. Foot in liner then liner in boot. I also put the shell in front of a space heater ahead of time to warm it up and make it easier to open WIDE.
Very accurate temperature control plus only heated exactly where I wanted.

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Sounds good ,but 2 questions :

do you think this would work for an entire liner ?

isnt the HOT water more likely to burn your foot ?

Don't know if I posted this already but-

PSA for SLC mags, Levelnine has nice ones for $99.

They are the wraparound style and say "performance" on the back. Don't know the deal but they seem kinda medium volume, very snug but doable in my plugs that are a not-quite-race fit. good stuff.

About sizing, try the thing on if possible. it should roughly fit your foot without crunching your toes. If your toes are crunched in the liner before you mold, they'll be crunched after.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

..isnt the HOT water more likely to burn your foot ?

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"almost boiling water" definitely will hurt you foot, i would suggest going to sauna instead.. ;)

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Originally Posted by Meathelmet

Read about everything here on the intuition liners,still have a question:

Scarpa Intuition Speed(wrap around) iners : Yay or nay?

Some people say they are softer than powerwraps ,some say stiffer.
They are be the 2 layer HD EVA,with silicon grip in the bottom.

1.Any first,or second hand experience if they are performance vise equal to powerwraps?
2.Thickness wise,are they closer to 12mm or 9mm plugs?
3.Any other unforseeable oddities in the liners as they are manufactured for scarpa?

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I have the same question. I just bought some Size 28 Scarpa branded "Powerwrap" liners. I plan on putting them inside a 27.5 Salomon Xwave 10. Are these the fabled Intuition Powerwrap, stiff, fully moldable, or are they different??

Trigger is already pulled so it will either work or it won't. Anyone have any opinions or knowledge to be dropped?

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Originally Posted by FranklezZ

I have the same question. I just bought some Size 28 Scarpa branded "Powerwrap" liners. I plan on putting them inside a 27.5 Salomon Xwave 10. Are these the fabled Intuition Powerwrap, stiff, fully moldable, or are they different??

Trigger is already pulled so it will either work or it won't. Anyone have any opinions or knowledge to be dropped?

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Ordered mine and have now skied 6 days on them last week.

Fucking money.




I mean by far stiffer and supportive than palaus wrap arounds.Radiums feel practically like alpine boots now.Honestly.
Scarpa/Intuitions feel a bit thin,light and skimpy compared to palaus and definately a lot "harder".
The biggest problem I had with palaus was they they mushed up after an hour and your foot started to move around in the boot.Not so with intuitions.
After 8 hours on skis,with skinning,riding and falling into swamps they are practically as tight as when you put your feet in the morning.



But,the liners need proper cooking unless you are a mutant.


I didnt have the luxury of getting the boot heated in a oven in a shop,so I had to resort to the rice cooking method. Wich helped only a bit and the boots were super tight and painfull on the first day.Luckily I found a shop that had a blower type warmer and with self made toecaps (of toilet paper) I finally got the fit close to good.
5 days after that skiing with very little complaints. Only when skinning longer,the tightness around achiles heel is bugging.It is prolly because of the extra padding there and the hardness of the materiel that irritates my achiles.Feeling confident that it will get better after couple of more days.



In short, LeeLau was right (again) :
Palaus=Shit
Intuitions=Win

^^^^
Thanks Meat

Answer to my own question; I believe this info can also be found earlier in this thread.

I found it here: http://www.wildsnow.com/1570/intuition-ski-boot-liner/

OEM Intuition Liners vs. After-Market Replacements:

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"As OE liners have such big runs, Intuition customizes OE liners to accommodate manufacturer specifications. Some of these customizations have crept into Intuitions’ standard product offerings. For example Scarpa liners have silicone grippy tread on the bottom of the liner and thinner foam on the footbed area to accommodate placement of footbeds."

So as far as I can tell the Scarpa branded liner should be just as stiff and mold-able as the regular after market PowerWrap liner, should work with a plethora of boots, and work especially well with a foot bed. Sounds perfect.

All I need now is a 310mm size 27 or 27.5 Flexon/Full Tilt shell for comparison...

Bueller... Hello, Bueller...

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Originally Posted by FranklezZ

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For example Scarpa liners have silicone grippy tread on the bottom of the liner and thinner foam on the footbed area to accommodate placement of footbeds."

So as far as I can tell the Scarpa branded liner should be just as stiff and mold-able as the regular after market PowerWrap liner, should work with a plethora of boots, and work especially well with a foot bed. Sounds perfect.

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Actually,not neccessarily :

Taken from telemark-pyrenees on the wraparound liners:


Scarpa Intuition SpeedLiner : The “Speed” liner is stiffer than the Precision (two layers of High Density versus 1/2 HD and 1/2 Regular Density)

Scarpa Intuition Precision High : "Precision” is the regular liner: 1/2 HD and 1/2 Regular Density

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In fact, the super-supportive foam acts as an integrated custom foot bed without the need for insoles, though aftermarket footbeds can easily be used if desired.

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I have quite normal feet and have used footbeds in the past. Have allso skied without footbeds in raichle thermoflexes.
At the moment,I would not be able to use footbeds in the liners.
The liner offers all the possible fill and support that I can fathom and there would be absolutely no possibility volumewise to insert one. Having a Radium 23.5-24.5 shell with a 25 Speed liner.

So you prolly try it first without footbed and if it works,hell,you would save the 50-100$.

Great advice and good info Meat, but all I am saying is that IF there is a difference between the Scarpa OEM liner and the PowerWrap model on the Intuition web site, it is minor. This difference manifests as a slightly thinner sole, to accommodate a foot bed, and some rubber on the sole.

This should work great for me since I traditionally have always used a footbed.


In other cases, such as the Full Tilt boot liners, the difference is huge.

Compare these two photos...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_in7-njDjbbs/TA...%20Cutaway.PNG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_in7-njDjbbs/TA...er%20Specs.jpg
Full Tilt liner specs from: http://assets.k2sports.com/fulltilt/...specs_2009.pdf

One can clearly see the difference.

OPEN CELL FOAM :eek: Say it's not so!

I don't know about the rest of you, but I like the look of the former better.

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Originally Posted by Meathelmet

In short, LeeLau was right (again) :
Palaus=Shit
Intuitions=Win

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I just had to quote that since I like it.

btw Frankle. Sorry i missed it but you are also correct - Scarpa foam is closed-cell. And yeah - the sole is thinned out precisely for the reason so you can use a footbed.

And here is the final word on the differences between the Scarpa Branded Intuition PowerWrap and the aftermarket PowerWrap available from the Intuition website.

This is what I asked:

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Hi,

I just purchased a Scarpa branded intuition liner that the seller billed as a PowerWrap model. It has the numbers 280-10601/4 on the back. Is this the same as the PowerWrap model on your website? If not, could you explain the differences.

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Quoted from an email from Intuition:

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OK - the Scarpa liners are in fact 6mm RD + 6mm HD body VS 12mm HD body on our Power Wrap.

The Scarpa sole (insole) is 10mm HD, while the Power Wrap is 9mm HD.

The Scarpa liner has a soft toe box, the Power wrap has NO toe box.

The Scarpa liners have a shin and calf stiff overlay, while the Power Wraps have one large hard over lay, wrapping around the liner.

Those are the differences between the two.

Cheers,
R & C

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So it looks like I actually purchased the:

Scarpa Intuition Precision High : "Precision” is the regular liner: 1/2 HD and 1/2 Regular Density

The only difference between the "Precision" and the Scarpa Intuition "Speed" liner being that the Speed liner is 12mm HD foam body.

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Originally Posted by FranklezZ

And here is the final word on the differences between the Scarpa Branded Intuition PowerWrap and the aftermarket PowerWrap available from the Intuition website.

Quoted from an email from Intuition:

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So,basically they are not knowing what they are manufacturing or are selling the same shit branded just differently... :D

^^^^^
I don't understand... They know exactly what they are manufacturing and selling. They explained every difference and nuance between the two models in their reply. And when I asked them permission to post their reply in a public forum they did not hesitate. This makes me feel like they KNOW, that they know, their stuff.

In short; they run a solid business, are super nice, and basically rule! Buy their products.

Oh, and I just received my liners in the mail (thanks Tick) and guess what. They are exactly as described by Intuition.

Intuition = Nailed It.

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Originally Posted by FranklezZ

^^^^^
I don't understand...

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Mang,I am quoting the disparency between the telemark pyrenees
Scarpa Intuition SpeedLiner : The “Speed” liner is stiffer than the Precision (two layers of High Density versus 1/2 HD

and

intuitions reply : OK - the Scarpa liners are in fact 6mm RD + 6mm HD body VS 12mm HD body on our Power Wrap


See?

^^^^^
Nope.

I asked about a liner not knowing there were differences in the Scarpa line up. I provided Intuition with the product number 280-10601/4. They told me exactly what I had purchased and how it is different from what they sell on their web site.

Turns out I purchased a:
Scarpa Intuition Precision High : "Precision” is the regular liner: 1/2 HD and 1/2 Regular Density

Lets put this in perspective. I received an exact answer to my question within 48 hours of both posting here and sending them an email. When asked, they were totally fine with me posting their reply here. Hmm... sounds pretty solid to me.

Bottom line: They rule, their product rules, I rule!

-late

Has anyone used both a luxury liner ( a tongue style) and a wrap liner from intuition. I am currently using a power wrap, and I love it, but they have come to the end of the line, and with new boots on the way anyway, I figure go for some new intuitions.

Just wondering if the awesomeness of the intuition is in the switch from a tongue to a wrap (when coming from the original boot liner) or is simply the material.... will I be disappointed with the tongue intuition?


The luxury liner in a high volume has a slightly more volume than the power wrap, which I like for taking up some of that dead space in the boot that I can never seem to fill...

Are the tongue intuitions better than tongue originals at the same degree the wrap intuitions are better than the tongue originals?


^Clear as mud? Great!

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Originally Posted by volklpowdermaniac

Has anyone used both a luxury liner ( a tongue style) and a wrap liner from intuition. I am currently using a power wrap, and I love it, but they have come to the end of the line, and with new boots on the way anyway, I figure go for some new intuitions.

Just wondering if the awesomeness of the intuition is in the switch from a tongue to a wrap (when coming from the original boot liner) or is simply the material.... will I be disappointed with the tongue intuition?


The luxury liner in a high volume has a slightly more volume than the power wrap, which I like for taking up some of that dead space in the boot that I can never seem to fill...

Are the tongue intuitions better than tongue originals at the same degree the wrap intuitions are better than the tongue originals?

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I've used both (obviously)

I think the beauty of Intuitions is the foam they use in the liner. They tweak that foam to arrive at different stiffnesses and densities and feel for different liners. I think all the Intuition liners are insanely good but in different ways. Read the two Wildsnow articles I wrote which describes in pain-staking excruciating details that should bore you to tears about the differences in liners. If you still don't understand - email Intution. God bless them they are very patient and will answer your question (no matter whether a good or bad question) and will be patient with you as you as you try to talk about your feet through email!

I don't know what you mean by "originals" in your last question so can't begin to even try to answer that question.