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Speaking of gravel and classy, I have a new Ti, Curley Bar, Chunky Tire project bike arriving tomorrow.
One of my athletes is going to Mexico to do a 118km (73m) 3,607m (11,833ft) gravel hill climb this month. Strava File!
Her carbon gravel race bike has not arrived yet, so her sponsor has reached out to a sister company that has a Ti Gravel bike in stock.
I'm getting my hands on it tomorrow, and needs to be built and test ridden for Monday.
Photos to come....
Quick question about gravel bike geo. When I bought my 2018 Specialized Diverge it felt much more stable for both high speeds and descending than my previous road bike (2010 Scott CR1). I'm getting a little further into the design of a custom gravel bike and I'm looking at the Diverge numbers against what I'm seeing elsewhere (Giant Revolt, Lynksey GR300 specifically). HA on my version of the Diverge is 72.5 and SA is 74. Looking at some of the newer bikes like the Lynksey GR300 and GR PRO, they are running HA of 71 and SA of 73. Giant Revolt is the same.
On the far end of the spectrum you've got the Chamois Hagar running a HA of 67 and SA of 74. I'm still a bit of a geo newb, but it would seem like I would want to keep the steep seat angle from the Diverge (74) and maybe slacken the HA a little (70? 71?). The use case of this bike is primarily gravel riding with a very small percentage of single track, so maybe 71 is a good happy medium between Diverge and Chamois Hagar. Are gravel bikes slackening out similar to the trend in mountain bikes?
Thanks!
Seth
Don’t use that Chamois Hagar as a reference for anything.
It’s a PT Cruiser in a parking lot of SUVs.
I look forward to seeing the fancy pants Ti bike.
Seth, gravel bikes seem to have settled around that 71 deg HTA zone. Reaches have also gotten longer, and many of them seem designed around an 80mm stem these days. Both of those moves make gravel bikes more stable than road bikes, but at the expense of handling quickness. (I really like the razor-sharp handling of a road race bike, but it's not for everyone.)
The Chamois Hagar is very much an outlier, but there are others that are significantly slacker than average, like the Fezzari Shafer. I think the Canyon Grizl represents the right mid-point today. Some of the raciest ones are still at 72+ HTA. Personally I don't think that general gravel bikes will get much longer/slacker as I think they've found the right geometry for most riders. (Most people ride really significant percentages of pavement.)
It’s more about the BB drop these days, I ride a 56cm frame with a 72mm BBdrop, handling is pretty crisp, but it excels straight line mugging, 40mph down dirt roads in VT. Also quite handy on the classIV-VI ‘roads’ around here.
Yeah I think 70-71 degrees is a good spot- even current cyclocross bikes are there. My old orbea is 74, new major jake is 71, and after a summer of riding and a season of racing I'm not really finding any downsides. I suppose the shorter, steeper bike was better at the tight, slow speed stuff by a marginal amount but got a little scary going faster downhill on loose surfaces. Lower bb is maybe noticeable on off cambers and grippy grass turns.
Also hta and bb drop depend a little on planned wheel/tire size. If you want to run 700x50 for example it doesn't need to be super slack because of the added trail but you would want a lower bb.
If your gonna run a 700x50, just get a hardtail MTB. That’s stupid big.
That's super helpful on the HA.
What about SA? I've always equated steeper SA with better climbing but it would seem to follow that general riding (not super steep) would benefit from a slacker SA. As Evan mentioned, a lot of riding will be done on pavement, I would guess.
Shooting for 700x45c. I have a HT and can't imagine needing that much tire on my gravel bike but my Diverge can barely clear some 42s so I'd like a little more mud clearance.
Aso planning for 75mm BB drop. The Diverge has 85mm, the Lynskey has 75mm and the Revolt has 70mm.
Seth
I have a Kona Sutra LTD with a HA of 72 and SA of 72.5. Not as upright/comfy as Trek Checkpoint due to the longer TT on the Kona.
I really like my wife’s Kona Rove ST as it’s a touch lighter and thinner steel makes it a bit more flexie but I haven’t ridden hers with luggage yet which may make it too wiggly.
45mm is the best size, IMO, unless your "gravel" is all really smooth and never soft/sandy. Once you go fatter i bet you won't downsize, unless it's to save weight. Rolling resistance has much more to do with the tread pattern than it does with width. A high BB will seem even higher with big tires, though. I prefer drop bars for roads and super mellow trails, so a HT MTB isn't what I'm looking for.
Seat tube angle really has more to do with tire clearance vs chainstay length. Stay length also affects handling quite a bit. If you like your seat position really far forward relative to the BB (like i do), you'll appreciate a steeper STA. But that position can usually be achieved on a slacker frame with a zero setback post. The reason that the reach number is so useful is that it assumes you'll have your saddle-BB relationship fixed regardless of STA. Especially on a road bike, you want to get that relationship sorted out based on your personal body geometry (please don't sue me, S) before you change bars/stem/etc.
FWIW my Rodeo Labs Donkey feels pretty dialed at 70 HA, 73 SA for a wide variety of surfaces, including fast-ish road rides. Full geo for reference.
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The Why Cycles R+ V3 Ti Frame, with some demo SRAM parts on it arrived today.
I will build it up with a new Shimano GRX Di2 1x. The plan is for a 42T GRX crank with a Stages power meter matched to a 11-42 cassette. 160mm rotors front and back on some DT Swiss GRC 1400 wheels, shroud with Maxxis 38C Ramblers.
I have until Monday to get this frame stripped of non sponsor parts and build up with Shimano, DT Swiss, Maxxis, and Ergon. Monday should get me enough time for a few test rides to shake out the bugs and be able to bed in the new brakes. I think it fly to its Mexico adventure in 10 days.
Look for some photos after the weekend.
Let me know if you have any questions on the build.
sexy looking frame! Looking forward to seeing the build!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
Purdy ride!
Hatchet HA 71 SA 73 and loving it for road and mountain biking. Not going to be the best tool for crit racing but 200 km rides on gravel and pavement are a dream and with the mountain bike wheels on it, a blast on every trail other than high speed, rocky ones.
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nice! what bars are those? thanksQuote:
Originally Posted by alive
need new all around tires for commuting/mixed surface/forest roads. I'm considering Panaracer Gravel Kings SK 700x38 vs Donnely X'plor MSO 700x40. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!
I have a few Gravel King SK's in the garage, one set on my girlfriends gravel wheels. They are a pretty popular tire for a reason, she had no issue on a few gravel (dirt/sandy) rides in UT. I like the look of those X'plor's though.
^^^ good to know, Phall. I've had MSO on my bike before, but I'm being vein and want a skinwall... Might as well try a set of the gravel kings!
I have the G-One Allround from Schwalbe as my winter/hardpack tires for my gravel wheelset. I dig em. The G1R's look slick too.
I have around 4,000-5,000 miles on a pair of tanwall WTB Venture 50s. About 50% of that is commuting on pavement (which I don't Strava, hence the mileage uncertainty), 25% is pavement riding for fun, and 25% gravel or singletrack. The rear tire has very little tread depth and the casing is coming apart, so I will have to get some new tires soon, but I've been impressed by their performance on all kinds of surfaces. I have them set up tubeless and haven't flatted once with these tires, although my partner flatted on her first ride out with her Venture 47s.
Just shot you a PM. I just picked up the s-works Pathfinder Pro 42 so I'm selling a used set of the regular version of that tire. Think they probably have 1,000 miles on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapin Ben
While we are recommending tires, I got a Jamis Renegade last year and put on PNW Gravel bars which are awesomely wide and comfortable, and Soma Cazadero 50mm tires. Fantastic tire for all day VT adventuring on pavement, gravel, singletrack, no track, and class IV. Couldn't be happier with the set up.
Which width bars?Quote:
Originally Posted by milestogo
I went with the 52 (I'm 6' in case that makes any difference to your decision making).Quote:
Originally Posted by Peruvian
So comfortable...One of the reviews called it a "mountain biker's drop bar" and I found that to be pretty apt. With a shorter stem I was very comfortable going on (smoother) singletrack forays during a big ride. For someone who has never been a road biker (except for my old univega in the 1980's riding to school) it made the bike feel very natural.