I feel better already!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp
Cross gates?
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I feel better already!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp
Cross gates?
Misread your post from yesterday....end up trying to use Ikon at the Bird? I may try to cross into Snowbird some day this week to test my luckQuote:
Originally Posted by Yukonrider
Brought it with me, then totally forgot. Will try again probably MondayQuote:
Originally Posted by Shaaarrrp
Never seen so many people walking to the Bird from below WP th.
Snowbird is Alta's redneck neighbor with busch light cans and cars on blocks all over the front yard [emoji23] Attachment 485375
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Can confirm. Got this report this morning from a bud who has a kid on SB Ski Team -
I have never seen the Gadzoom line so long. It’s all the way past the race shack to the back of the paid parking lot and on the way to Wilbere!
Team is hiking to top of race hill to train. She’s going to be pissy!
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Using a bitch ticket, but figured I’d share my reply -
Thanks Ikon! I know there are more people in Utah now, and all us transplants should leave, and there’s fresh snow, blah, blah, blah…
But, if not for the Ikon, then a HUGE number of locals wouldn’t wait in line to get in the canyon on a modest powder day, hunt or pay for parking, to then pay out of pocket for a full day lift ticket knowing they’ve missed a couple hours of primo snow. They’d just say “fuck it” and turn around, go someplace else, or never leave home to begin with.
Now with the Ikon, it’s already paid for, need to get my money’s worth, better head up. I’m sure I can find parking, I’m a local. Lines won’t be THAT long, everyone else will bail….
This is what is leading to bigger crowds… Our new reality.
As stated before, time for Snowbird to institute all reservation parking too. Will promote carpooling, reduce early morning arrival panic and maybe reduce roadside parking to some degree helping hasten the afternoon flow out of the canyon…???
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QUalitativly. Every day I woke up early last year the BCC left turn lane was a nightmare, and the whole canyon was clogged up until 10ish.Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_the_fraulein
This morning when I woke up at 630 and looked at the traffic cams BCC was dark, and LCC was starting to fill up. at 730 BCC was still empty, while LCC was fully snaked up. at 830 BCC had traffic, LCC was at a standstill, and it wasn't even snowy.
As much as I hate it, Alta style reservations are the way to go. Maybe I'm selfish, but waking up at 630 to go ski a mediocre snow day is ridiculous. At this point I get up early to get a spot. I don't care about first tracks, and usually don't go stand in line until the lifts start spinning.
Walking up from below White pine? That is a customer experience DISASTER, something must change.
Not saying any of this is wrong, but I'm convinced blaming it solely on Ikon is missing the big picture. There has been a 30% increase in people in the SLC metro area since 2000. Number of skiers in the US has gone up around 25% in the same timeframe. Compared to even 15 years ago the access to the sport is much easier - much easier skis, much better cheap clothing, much better goggles, helmets available etc. People who used to not have a prayer of skiing powder can now enjoy it. On top of that it has become a fad to go outdoors due to the popularity of social media - and frankly a desire to get off your phone and get outside is probably really healthy. So overall numbers are way way up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_the_fraulein
Ikon provides unlimited days for a skier in SLC, and even at 5 days at DV, 5 and Brighton, 5 at Snowbasin, and unlimited at Solitude, that far exceeds the number of days most average people ski. (I think the average is fewer than 10 days, right?). So people in SLC who would previously just bought a resort pass are now buying Ikon - so they aren't all imports. And on top of that it's cheaper to buy Ikon than 5 individual days now, so a lot of the few days a year people just buy a pass.
I'm not convinced there are substantially more out-of-towners skiing Alta/Bird than there used to be on a percentage basis. I'm sure the resorts have some idea of this.
I know some of you will call me an idiot (used to it) but I think this is a version of "you're not in traffic, you are traffic."
With 25%-30% more skiers we need new ski areas.
In addition to above, don’t know the exact numbers, but in the 90s I think less than 5% of Utah residents skied. Nowadays I’m sure that percentage is much higher along with huge population growth. So agree with above, it’s not all Ikon.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
There are way more out of town folks skiing LCC and UT in general than there was when I lived there in the late 90s/2000s. Last year I came in 5 times for around 15 days of skiing while visiting family. Almost everyone I shared chairs with was from out of town. At DV, I think I've shared chairs with locals 5 times total (not as surprising). I met over a dozen different people doing Ikon based trips hitting UT/WY/MT resorts. I rarely met anyone like that in the 90s/2000s.
^^This^^Quote:
Originally Posted by phatty
Been watching from my front porch for more than 30 years.
First - saw a stat - ~8.8% of Utahns ski. Hasn’t changed much over the past couple decades, but obviously our population has. Definitely a contributor.
Second - BITD before mega passes, locals and visitors alike could choose whimsically which resort to ski and could often go to Lift House, Dan’s, Smith’s, etc and buy a discounted day ticket. Prices were increasing but SIGNIFICANTLY lower than today. You could choose when to ski based on many factors, including weather, and make it reasonably affordable. You had choices and it was reasonable for the occasional skier.
Third - the Mega Pass Model has shifted everything. You now “invest” in your season pass 4-5 months earlier than previous, and often BEFORE the previous season concluded, and as a result of the ridiculously high daily rates being charged, if you desire to ski more than 2-3 days a season, economically you really have to buy one. Now you’re locked into the resorts associated with your Mega Pass. Now, that you paid in May for a pass that was more expensive than it used to cost you to ski 2-3 days on a whim, you’re more likely to go and use it. Now we have an increase in skier traffic without a commensurate increase in revenue possibly. Consumer choice and flexibility is greatly reduced. Yes the Mega Pass is cheaper than a previous traditional season pass, but with the change in the model and more crowds, less parking, higher food costs, etc, is it actually a better value than previous passes??
Fourth - Utah still has arguably the best snow, and certainly the most convenient, thereby attracting more Mega Pass holders from across the country given the convenience, AND that it is basically free to ski here. All these pass holders chase the snow to use their “investment” before it expires, adding further to the growing congestion
I believe it is better for the Corporations, maybe some Independents, but for all/most of us??!!
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Went out for a couple short laps of low angle hippie pow just far enough away from the crowds. Found the perfect angle to stay off the bottom. Getting away from the lift lines today was good for my soul.
Snapped a pic of an anonymous skier working the same zone as me:Attachment 485387
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Ikon can suck my balls as well as every single person I ride a lift with being from out of town
But today was bomber at Alta, at least supreme and keyhole. 1:45 up leaving SLC at 7, and zero traffic down at 2:15
Snowbird sux
oi ...get well soon!Quote:
Originally Posted by ski_the_fraulein
i tore my calf wickedly on that run years ago in a deceivingly mellow tumble
One tip, i self-learned years back>keep your arms inside the windows when crashing (unless you need to protect your head) a lot of injuries happen when trying to slow your fall with your arms
The number 1 and 2 ikon destinations based on skier visits (that don’t have ikon as their primary pass) in North America are both in LCC. You tell me the problem.
I'll tell you the problem, need more ski areas. LCC and BCC suck.
The number 1 and 2 ikon destinations based on skier visits (that don’t have ikon as their primary pass) in North America are both in LCC. You tell me the problem.
Skiing today was very good
Is the answer always grow? Growth is what got us here and it has finite bounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
If we could snap our fingers and double skiable inbounds terrain, things may chill out a bit short term, but people have a fixed amount of pain they'll tolerate to ski, and even more people will come until that pain is right back to the levels they're at now. And at that point there won't be enough good terrain to double again; it'd just be a *bigger* clusterfck. We'd just have bought some time at the cost of absolutely ruining what makes the Wasatch special.
Today was not mediocre.
I'm with you. This is the right answer. SLC population growth + Ikon + increasing interest in skiing. (do the math - just 1% of 1 million people is 10000 extra skiers within 40 miles of LCC). But I guess it's a lot easier to blame "outsiders".Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
Note: Utah visits have not increased since the largest level in 2016 which peaked at 20Million visitors and decreased overall during COVID years. So... more people aren't coming to Utah. But entirely possible that more people have Ikon passes so there is that.
Fuck the ikon pass and fuck all you beaters who buy it.
Alta skied great this morning. There have been much worse days up there...
As I was going down on the bus, one of the guys sitting at the front commented that the lines at the other resort down the road from Alta were insane. And that got me thinking. There is a phenomenon that I have seen with coworkers at my office since the OINK pass is a thing:
They are the type of skiers who hit the slopes maybe 12 days a year, who like wide open groomers and sun, and who would describe Snowbird as a "scary" place. If they didn't have the Oink pass, they wouldn't even think about going to that place, but now that they have those available, they end up a few weekends up there every season. They wouldn't be there otherwise.
They still say that Snowbird is "scary". They still have to battle the crowds, but what the hell, I can go to the Bird with my pass. Just my experience.
PS: I was going to use one of my bitch tickets for the season to complain about how dumb the Wasatch thread's title is this year, but it has actually grown on me.
. Sorry bro I feel terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebirdhunter
If there’s a finite number of parking spots, and less bus commuters (there’s less busses so assuming less bus travelers) how is it a pass’s fault?
Are the ikon pass drivers putting more people in each car?
Couldn't be bothered to get up this morning but I'm sure it was worth it. I just don't have the energy to go to bed early every Friday and Saturday anymore.
I agree with the ikon bringing people in to a degree. But I also really think there are a lot of people who used to be 5 day skiers that are going 15-25 because of the ikonik sunk cost. Also the people moving to Utah last 10 years are disproportionately likely to be 20+ day skiers. But let's be real- at least half the randos I get on chairs with are visiting in January and February. Social media and effective marketing have changed where people want to ski. There are legions of Ohioans and Texans and jerseyfolk that have these easily accessed lists of raddest deepest POW most scenic resorts and they are mostly accessed with this one pass. And so they buy it for the bros week in Jackson or bozone but figure wth let's do a weekend in SLC and one in Tahoe and one in Denver. It's why weekends are so acutely bad- the locked in locals plus the tourons.
Snowbird has to lock down parking. I don't want it but it has to happen. I'm going to btown next year anyway, need a break from the birds aggro intensity.
Every year I see instas of people I never even knew skied coming through here or Tahoe for a weekend. Filthy casuals. The only thing changing the crowds is a real recession. There's a lot of people griping about cold and vis on sick storm days, having a bad time on their conspicuous consumption mission to the rOcKy MoUnTaInS. Make American choose between the new Audi and skiing out west again, the good old days when only locs, dirt bags and actual rich people could ski
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Maybe we should start a campaign emphasizing how weak the groomer offerings are in LCC versus other options. Also mention how many days you can't see anything and have to ski by feel. I can definitely understand why Snowbird and Alta would feel scary to a lot of people.
I would choose LCC over anywhere but many skiers would actually enjoy Colorado terrain more imo. Seems like they get more sunny days vs storm ones as well.