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I miss 2015 191 Billy Goats bad. Looking back they might be some of my favorite skis of all time. They were almost poppy and playful, for being so stable. Perfect west coast resort powder charger, like a blend between Armada ARG and K2 Obsethed, but more stable.
What's the 2024 big billy goat looking like?
Grab the 187 in the factory finds. The 187 is more like the old 189/191. The 192 is more like a super goat
Ævergoat 2x here
192 is the ticket to ride. 187 would probably still be fun, but not perfect. I read of some issues on last years 192 BG, hoping to hear different for 2024. Will buy if so
I have 2014 191s and a 2022 192. The old 191s are much better. Rumor has it that changes are coming for the 192 for next year. I really hope so. I've heard the 187 is good but really prefer the longer lengths for my pow skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velomayniac
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I honestly think ON3P would sell a lot of 2014 191 Billy Goat and Caylor. Peak ski design right there. I have some 187 BG Tours, and they're great but that old 191 is just amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by phatty
Mount the current 192 at -1cm and it will feel like a the old 191.
Mount on the line and it will feel more locked in.
I've heard that before but I've also heard it doesn't solve things. Hearing it from you gives me more confidence it may be worth trying. Do you know anything about the changes that might be coming to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
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https://bellingham.craigslist.org/sp...624118569.html
Any short kings want some Jeffreys?
PFFFFTTT!Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
Wait till he gets them in the park!
I firmly believe 2014/2015 was peak ski design across many different brands. I may be alone on that one, but I’ve been thinking this since 2017ish, and every year it doesn't get better.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
J118 is better than the Caylor in almost every category.Quote:
Originally Posted by auvgeek
charging off piste in variable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sessiøn
They also crush thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Velomayniac
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Discuss!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sessiøn
As a passionate lover of the fkn Caylors and having not been on J118's(J118T's are in the collecting funds stage), can you elaborate on why you've come to this conclusion?
I’m curious for more info too. Though, I will post my own Caylor - Jeffrey 118 comparison next season when I have a chance to get on my J118’s. I’m hopeful the tip/tail taper helps them cut through loose snow better, as I did experience the occasional tail grab in some snow types. Also looking to overall lighter weight too, Caylor’s are tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
I haven’t been the Caylor, but they j118 crushes in every condition except really hard snow. They are super easy to pivot in fresh but not hooky. They plane up super fast. They crush chop and leftovers at speed. Cruise though variable and are really stable landing platform. Also they do ok making turns on soft groomers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
I have the regular version in an 191(mounted for a 306bsl w/pivots) and a tour layup 186(mounted for 306bs with fr14’s) if anyone is in Tahoe next season and needs a test drive.
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I have hundreds of days on Caylors and about 30 on J116s (none on 118s), but I agree with Session here.Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
The Caylors have an ever so slight edge in pure floatation but the modern version is better everywhere else.
The new tip and tail taper shape is much more refined so they track better in chop/variable, pivot/slarve a bit better, and also hold an edge better on firmer snow.
I loved the Caylors but the new version is just much more well rounded and only gives up the tiniest bit of buoyancy.
Any difference between the 116s and 118s? I love my 116s, similarly have never been on the 118s.Quote:
Originally Posted by FullStop
oh, nice - did you end up with Auv's?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeHuWe
Man, I do want to get in on the Jeff action too, but alas - can't afford to right now :(
Nah, I saw the Cy roof box review of them on Newschoolers and it piqued my interest. Definitely worth it if you have a touring quiverQuote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
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Ah, nice :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeHuWe
Do want - but alas, too poor
Best deal for stock ON3Ps ever? Use "flash" for an additional 100usd off all discounted stock skis over the memorial weekend. Yes - 599 for killer skis that lasts forever - awesome deal.
Man, too bad the exchange rate is freaking terrible right now - I would have ordered a full Jeff run if not.
Great deal for great skis that take more abuse than a baja truck - buy em now or regret it when your flimsy ass non-ON3Ps fall apart ;)
dammit - I so want some jeffs. Damn you exchange rate (my last order 8/1, now 11/1).
Got on some 189 wren 102ti's this last weekend at mammoth. Snagged a pair of the limited edition final run purely out of FOMO. I needed these skis like I needed a hole in the head, but didn't want to miss out on the era of the wren after being a satisfied BG customer since pre-asym. Here are some random thoughts in no particular order:
1.) i run a base bevel guide over all new skis to make sure I won't have any crazy edge catching nightmare experiences, and go 1* base on all frontside skis but 1.5* on most directional chargers. Running a dedicated 1.5* base bevel guide on these i was not even pulling any material, meaning they are at LEAST 1.5* base bevel from the factory (almost certainly slightly more). I am 100% cool with this, as i like that kind of tune on variable snow chargers, but worth a note as i really never get a ski out of the wrapper >1.5* base bevel
2.) the edges are case hardened like nothing i have ever seen. I set the side bevel to 2* using my usual "mark with sharpie and use files until the sharpie is gone (before polishing)" method and had a bitch of time cutting back the sharpie marked edges. I wasn't hitting sidewalk either (the sidewalls are angled and I wasn't getting any plastic or fiberglass on the file). I had to go to TOWN with insanely aggressive silicon carbide stones and a sharp panzar file to cut back any edge at all. I have never seen anything like this and it was super hard to work on, but something i only do once to set the bevel and rarely thereafter to remove damage, so... it's ok
3.) the factory detune was also more aggressive than I would personally do (it was a good bit past the rocker section into the camber section and a fair bit more rounded than a firm gummy would achieve). Most people won't care, and it's totally understandable on soft snow and park skis, but the 102ti in my eyes is for firm variable conditions, so getting a bitchin edge in the cambered section is something i want, and I really had to work at getting that this time. Overall construction and workmanship and durability are typical on3p, and even though I struggled to tune the edges, the tune is what most people will want out of the wrapper i'm sure
4.) at 6' and 180lbs, mediocre by TGR standards, the 189 skis long for me. I love my 189 BG's and would never go shorter, but i kinda wish i had gone 184 on these. It's fun for the stability in the runouts, but in deep spring bumps and techy chutes, i always felt the extra length a little bit. It would regularly hang me up just ever so slightly anytime it got tight. It was definitely manageable and didn't TOTALLY suck. It was more like 80% great on the 189cm and 20% aware of fighting the extra material length. Basically, if the skis can run (like the bottom half of chair 23 at mammoth) I wouldn't dream of downsizing, but when skiing bumps that get quite deep in spring slush (the top of chair 23), it's annoyingly obvious they were all set by skis 10-20cm shorter
5.) the tip is the typical newer wren rocker profile, and it is both more total splay and more abrupt than the super mellow heritage labs FL113 tip rocker I have been skiing all spring. It can plane up and over stuff better than the lower tip designs, but i found it could also really launch you if you hit a bump off balance. The speed limit is very, very high on this ski, but to achieve it i had to ski more dynamically and plan ahead much more to air transitions off of features. Subtle reverse camber skis like the FL113 and bodacious let me rage around more mindlessly, but the feeling is different on the wren 102ti (more poppy), and it isn't a lower limit... just different
6.) the ski is very adequately damp/plush/smooth/suspension-y or whatever the kids are calling it these days, but they aren't THE dampest skis. Just very average heavy metal charger damp, which is quite good. But what these skis DO have is the aforementioned POP. Holy shit i have never boosted so high off of medium and small features on a metal laminate directional charger. It was kinda like being on a park ski. It was nuts and pretty fun because obviously landing was even easier on these beasts
7.) the sweet spot for me on the wren design was probably the 184 wren 108 ti for my use case. I like these skis quite a bit, but had no real need for anything of this kind other than quadruple quiver overlap just for the sake of it. I could ski a little faster and a little more confidently in most conditions if i downsized to 184, and i prefer the slightly larger turn radius (~27m on 108ti vs ~22m on 102ti) for turn shape, and i think the slight increase in width would give a tiny bit more float than it would give up in edge hold. I imagine it kinda just comes down to if you want to err slightly towards firm variable or soft variable for which model you pick. Seriously though if anyone with 184 wren 108ti's in good condition is interested in a possible trade then hit me up
Overall i only got a brief feel for these over two full days skiing in mammoth's epic spring conditions (full refreeze to deep corn to rotten slush), but i could really see skiing the wren 102ti as an every day for someone who wants a variable firm charger or a wren 108ti as an everyday variable soft charger, so long as you favor a dynamic, active, and poppy style. Personally I have found the driftier designs of the FL113 and bodacious a bit easier, but the wren 102ti was immediately very familiar and i could figure out how to ski and enjoy it in any conditions (other than fully refrozen coral reef and super slushy/grabby deep bumps) right away. I will post more thoughts on these if they come to me later, but just wanted to get some info out on these, as I feel they are one of the least talked about skis in this thread
^^^ Thanks for the input. Kinda happy I snagged 184 102ti after reading that. I recently let go of some 184 Wren 108's from the earlier, softer iterations. They were great, but somewhat not in neither the (my interpretation of) all mountain nor pow category. I'm hoping the 184 102ti's will be to me what the 183 BC Justis wasn't...
yeah, killer review :) Would love to get on a pair as well :)