To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

so if the vaccine antibodies wane, and natural immunity wane but we don’t know how long that takes; how can you enforce a vaccine mandate for something that you don’t know the effective length of?

or are we going to have to keep our Covid vaccine cards on us every year from now until the end of time? Seriously…?

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Over-and-over people have explained the immune system is more than just antibodies. Unlike antibodies, immune memory is durable. Family Guy even made a Short to explain how it works. The point being a positive result from an antibody test does not mean you have a specific amount of immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection. There needs to be proof of previous symptomatic infection.

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Originally Posted by TWINS

I got my booster, my flu and a phemonia shot yesterday.
2 in one arm, the booster in the other arm.
Felt like a walkoff home run yesterday ��

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I was asked if I'd had a COVID Vax or booster within the past 2 weeks before they gave me the flu shot yesterday.

I'm sure we're all very concerned about becoming unvaccinated.

MTU, how old did you say you were?

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Long-Term Brain Disorders in Post Covid-19 Neurological Syndrome (PCNS) Patient

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8066611/

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

just because the information was off doesn’t mean that your mentally retarded and cannot make a reasonable argument against anything I’ve said. I’m sorry you lick paint for fun… keep wearing that helmet little buddy.

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your parents raised you on a diet of lead didn’t they?

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

I said it before and I’ll say it again for the idiots on here that can’t read or have little reading comprehension.

we don’t need vaccine mandates. We need antibody mandates. It doesn’t matter how you get the antibodies - you’re going to be fine. Even with the vaccine, you could have less antibodies than I do with a previous infection. Your antibodies could wane quicker than natural immunity due to multiple reasons or factors. The vice versa is also true.

the fact your side can’t differentiate between antibodies and no vaccine shows how base level and brain dead your side of the argument is.

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My side? what side is that exactly? the one that wants to move on from this pandemic by vaccinating people?

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

just because the information was off doesn’t mean that your mentally retarded and cannot make a reasonable argument against anything I’ve said. I’m sorry you lick paint for fun… keep wearing that helmet little buddy.

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Oh I see. The information was “off”. Not your complete inability to understand that led to you getting it 100% wrong - which then led to you calling those that got it correct “total fucking retards”.

Patient handouts and Facebook posts are not an education in immunology and physiology. Someone should have explained that to you a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

What happens if your antibodies have waned?

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Then we can talk boosters just like we are with vaccines.

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Originally Posted by The AD

Hold on, wouldn't that make your case worse? You're telling me there are all those unvaxxed people in the hospital, and some of them even have had Covid before? My God, where's that natural immunity that's so incredible!!

P.S. and, yes, I get your point that we don't know whether all those unvaxxed people in the hospital have had Covid previously or not. However, we do know that shots produce an immune response in those who have already had Covid, so why not vax them too? It sure seems a lot easier than trying to find out who needs the shot and who doesn't.

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It is easy...I get that.m.doesnt change the fact that it's a choice, at least for perviously infected. Totally non vaxxed, non prior covid are stupid. I'd never deny that.

Again I would love to see studies for prior covid infection just like we do with breakthrough vax cases. Then see who's infection is worse, if at all, then there is a base it seems. To simply ignore prior infection immunity altogether seems remiss. We are simply saying take the vax...period.

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Am I the only person who is confused what Skidog's position is at this point? He's vaccinated, his family is vaccinated, he agrees vaccinations are effective, but he doesn't want a mandate because there might be some people with naturally acquired antibodies. Is that it? Oh, and the rest of us are "Borg" because we think there should be. Seems like a strange hill to die on to me.

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

so if the vaccine antibodies wane, and natural immunity wane but we don’t know how long that takes; how can you enforce a vaccine mandate for something that you don’t know the effective length of?

or are we going to have to keep our Covid vaccine cards on us every year from now until the end of time? Seriously…?

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I'm kinda over it. The "Borg" or "hive mind" absolutely sees nothing but their point..nothing will ever change it no matter how logical the argument or data.

Prior covid immunity antibodies wane...they're not good enough

Vaccine antibodies wane...so what .?

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Over-and-over people have explained the immune system is more than just antibodies. Unlike antibodies, immune memory is durable. Family Guy even made a Short to explain how it works. The point being a positive result from an antibody test does not mean you have a specific amount of immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection. There needs to be proof of previous symptomatic infection.

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So how don't gauge the difference with a vax? Both are still dependent on individual right?

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No you're missing the point with both of your posts above, the problem is an antibody test is an unreliable indicator of prior symptomatic infection.

Other countries like Germany and Israel allow prior infection to count in their vaccine passports because they have reliable data. We do not because in no small part our culture doesn't want government to have that level of state capacity.

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Originally Posted by The AD

Am I the only person who is confused what Skidog's position is at this point? He's vaccinated, his family is vaccinated, he agrees vaccinations are effective, but he doesn't want a mandate because there might be some people with naturally acquired antibodies. Is that it? Oh, and the rest of us are "Borg" because we think there should be. Seems like a strange hill to die on to me.

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What does the government force on you next?

I'm arguing people who were perviously infected with covid should not be forced to take a shot.

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Originally Posted by Asspen

Wait, don't we get Alberta?

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Only the boring shitty part

the gov doesnt need to force anything

just tell people without a vax about all the things they can no longer do and its working up here

they tried giving out 100 $ in Alberta but that didnt work

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Originally Posted by The AD

Am I the only person who is confused what Skidog's position is at this point? He's vaccinated, his family is vaccinated, he agrees vaccinations are effective, but he doesn't want a mandate because there might be some people with naturally acquired antibodies. Is that it? Seems like a strange hill to die on.

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To add-in, he proposing some unspecific 'plan' where we should test/mandate for antibodies instead even though immunity & resistance isn't granted thru antibodies alone. Further, resistance due to previous infection has all sorts of variables that make it hard to quantify. Both him and mtu seem to overlook that people are advocating for:

uninfected = 2 vax plus booster as deemed necessary
infected = 1 vax plus booster as deemed necessary (so we can baseline and forecast resistance regardless of the nuances of your previous infection)

In summary:

'borg' consensus is you should mitigate your personal risk and public health thru the established practices of vaccination / boosters with respect to your past infection and personal health

vs

some nebulous antibody verification program that most certainly antivax people will adopt and share their blood and dna with gov't or bbig pharma - despite there never being a program like this on a world wide level

I think that captures it.

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

0 evidence that people previously infected with Covid need to get a booster shot to participate in society when their antibodies work as well/if not better than those with the vaccine. “Super human immunity” is not a legitimate argument.

why the fuck are you inconsiderate assholes going out and getting a third shot when 1/3 of the worlds population doesn’t even have access to a 1st shot? I thought this was about helping the neighbors and keeping the virus under control? Doesn’t everyone need a life saving shot? Why is your 3rd shot more important than someone else’s 1st shot?!? Don’t you care about anyone else???

I love the disingenuous concern to vaccinate everyone that’s had Covid because we “need to gain immunity” and yet they’re out there taking away those precious vaccines from countries and people who could actually use them.

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Did you know that there are more than enough vaccines for the entire population of the planet? The logistics of getting vaccines into the arms of people in the third world has very little to do with supply but is a problem of distribution. Getting a booster doesn’t take a vaccine away from the unvaccinated. Trying to parse it in the way you have is virtue signaling of the highest order and disingenuous at best.


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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

No you're missing the point with both of your posts above, the problem is an antibody test is an unreliable indicator of prior symptomatic infection.

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Make him write it out 100 times.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Prior covid immunity antibodies wane...they're not good enough

Vaccine antibodies wane...so what .?

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Here's one difference to chew on: when someone is vaccinated we know exactly when they were vaccinated and what vaccine was administered. That makes it much easier to study and potentially know when a booster might be necessary. Immune response from natural infection is the Wild West in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

I'm arguing people who were perviously infected with covid should not be forced to take a shot.

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But how many people get covid from anal sex?

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

But how many people get covid from anal sex?

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Good one, Buster :)

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....24.21262415v1

again - a scientific study that proves my point. The problem with TGR is the hive mind of the majority of its posters that can’t seem to think for themselves. Anything the hive mind says is law and anyone or anything that goes against it is automatically chastised and ignored regardless of the validity of their own sources.

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Did you read the part in the beginning that was bolded and blue?


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guys...

I sincerely respect the efforts of several of you to refute the arguments of a couple of trolls, but clearly

the trolls are only interested in extending the argument with their 'what about... ' approach - -

the trolls are not discouraged by 'abuse' - to the trolls, there is no such thing as 'negative reinforcement' ; any response simply encourages the trolls to pursue the argument.


Please...

ignore them.


There is good Information in this thread, and

it gets progressively more difficult to find it in the vitriol.


Please ignore the trolls -
Please do not take. their. bait.


Thank you for your efforts.

Respectfully. tj

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

so you’re going to discredit my source but use one that is literally only linked to Kentucky? Seriously…?

wow you guys are rich. Keep up that hive mind though.

edit: I can’t even begin to list all the fuck ups with this “study” but I’m sure everyone on here will take this as the truth because it fits their narrative

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Do you really know what a study is and what it takes to be peer reviewed and published?


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Originally Posted by The AD

Good one, Buster :)

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I guess I should have been reading more closely. Doggie style is probably sufficiently pervy.