New Season, New Tires, New Thread

I kept blowing up tires in the exact same spot, in a high speed rock garden at Keystone. Happened 3 times in almost the exact same spot. It was about 100 yds from the top of the lift, and each time I had to hike the bike back up and ask for a ride down. It sucked.

They were all Minions DHRs, but apparently they were the thinner sidewall versions, I didn't realize there was a difference at the time. I thought the DH stood for "Downhill". However one of the blowouts was from ripping a knob off in the middle of the tire, shooting Stan's 30 ft in the air, it was funny, I had a stripe of Stans up my back.

After the guy at the bike shop graciously let me exchange them, twice, because I had blown them less than an hour out from buying them, he recommended the High Rollers w/ EXO instead. Ever since then, I haven't blown a tire. Yes, they are heavy, but so am I and uphill efficiency isn't really my focus.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

I kept blowing up tires in the exact same spot, in a high speed rock garden at Keystone. Happened 3 times in almost the exact same spot. It was about 100 yds from the top of the lift, and each time I had to hike the bike back up and ask for a ride down. It sucked.

They were all Minions DHRs, but apparently they were the thinner sidewall versions, I didn't realize there was a difference at the time. I thought the DH stood for "Downhill". However one of the blowouts was from ripping a knob off in the middle of the tire, shooting Stan's 30 ft in the air, it was funny, I had a stripe of Stans up my back.

After the guy at the bike shop graciously let me exchange them, twice, because I had blown them less than an hour out from buying them, he recommended the High Rollers w/ EXO instead. Ever since then, I haven't blown a tire. Yes, they are heavy, but so am I and uphill efficiency isn't really my focus.

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You're still confused, because EXO *IS* the thinner sidewall version. :D

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Originally Posted by SJG

From what I have seen with my riding buddies the Aggressor is BY FAR the most fragile "gnarly" tire that Maxxis makes. Short knobs give little support to the rest of the carcass.

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That's my take as well.

With Maxxis, DHF, DHR, Hi Roller, Aggressor, etc, is the tread pattern.

3C (Max Grip, Max Terra), Dual Compound, is the tread COMPOUND. 3C is 3 different compounds, dual is 2.

EXO, EXO+, DD, is the sidewall construction (from lightest (flimsiest) to burliest)

TR = Tubeless Ready

Yet, how do they label the disproportionately flimsy Aggressors?
And what secret code will help me figure out which ones have sweaty rubber goo?


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https://www.maxxis.com/technology/bike-technology

Post a picture of the labeling (the print), or list it in a reply.

I personally prefer the dual compound over the 3C (triple compound). The DC wears at least 2x as long as the 3C does, and is $10/tire cheaper. You can wear out a new 3C tire in 1 weekend on the Moab rocks, which is ridiculous.

Aggressors roll fast, and are light. But I don't like buying a tire which is already half worn out (knobs are so short). Also, the short knobs mean traction on anything loose is poor at best. I'm not good enough to be able to move the tires around at will like the fast guys can, that takes a ton of skill. When I turn I want the tires to turn, and when I hit the brakes I want maximum WHOA, not skidding along the top.

I ride a lot of REALLY steep, loose descents, and a loose tire is not a good idea for self preservation. Aggressor is great for dirt sidewalk riding.

But that's me.

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Originally Posted by jm2e

Yet, how do they label the disproportionately flimsy Aggressors?
And what secret code will help me figure out which ones have sweaty rubber goo?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Just look at knob height. Shockingly, a 3mm tall knob offers less protection than a 6mm tall knob.

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Originally Posted by SJG

https://www.maxxis.com/technology/bike-technology

Post a picture of the labeling (the print), or list it in a reply.

I personally prefer the dual compound over the 3C (triple compound). The DC wears at least 2x as long as the 3C does, and is $10/tire cheaper. You can wear out a new 3C tire in 1 weekend on the Moab rocks, which is ridiculous.

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As of now, there is no such thing as a 3C Aggressor. They are all dual compound, probably because the tire is generally considered as rear specific.

Exo= 1 ply 60 tpi
Exo + (no Aggressor yet) = 1 ply 120 tpi w/ Silkshield
DD= 2 ply 120 tpi
DH (which I don’t think Aggressor is offered in) = 2 ply 60 tpi

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Originally Posted by jm2e

WG: sidewall tear or tread? I actually wonder whether DD extra weight gives proportionately as much extra durability. Seems like you’d be better off with EXO + CushCore than standalone DD for similar weight.

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If he's regularly tearing tires how does going to a thinner carcass + cushcore help? I haven't run cushcore or any kind of insert yet (I was given one that I'm going to try on my hard tail) but for me switching to a DD in the rear has pretty much eliminated flats for the most part. If I'm going to pay a weight penalty it makes sense to me to pay it in a more durable tire, rather than with an insert. Unless you're running fragile plastic wheels, then I see where it might make sense to run an insert to help protect them. I do know some people riding with dh casing tires + inserts on their trail bike but I'm not smashing rocks enough to need that and probably not strong enough to be able to spin that much weight on long days without it impacting my endurance.

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Originally Posted by SJG

https://www.maxxis.com/technology/bike-technology

Post a picture of the labeling (the print), or list it in a reply.

I personally prefer the dual compound over the 3C (triple compound).

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Heh. Preferences. My only experience with DC Maxxis were the stock High Roller 2's that came on my '18 Trance. That compound, for me, was a MENACE. Tried to kill me on multiple occasions by not gripping off-camber rocks when I was expecting them to. Couldn't WAIT to get rid of those P.O.S. - at least in the front.

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<snip>I ride a lot of REALLY steep, loose descents, and a loose tire is not a good idea for self preservation.

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Could I interest you in the Church of Wild Rock'R2, my brother? I am an ordained minister in the order...

:D

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

You're still confused, because EXO *IS* the thinner sidewall version. :D

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I never have quite figured it out. Now lately, when the tires are worn out, I just buy a new bike and ride whatever is on it. ;) I don't even know what's on my current bike and I just rode it 20 miles this morning.

But seriously, why does it have to be so confusing? Why not different names for these different tires? Why is it still a "DHR" but not really made for downhilling? ugh.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

I never have quite figured it out. Now lately, when the tires are worn out, I just buy a new bike and ride whatever is on it. ;) I don't even know what's on my current bike and I just rode it 20 miles this morning.

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SJG laid it out below.

That said, it still isn't very much clearer. :D

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But seriously, why does it have to be so confusing? Why not different names for these different tires? Why is it still a "DHR" but not really made for downhilling? ugh.

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Take it to the "Shit That Annoys You" thread. Actually... I think it has been covered there. Or maybe it was covered in this thread earlier... ?

But... to be honest - we really don't need 1000 different named Maxxis tires. Because that's about what it would be. That company has figured something out with regards to confusing the consumer and somehow making it work. Fuckers.

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Originally Posted by dfinn

If he's regularly tearing tires how does going to a thinner carcass + cushcore help? I haven't run cushcore or any kind of insert yet (I was given one that I'm going to try on my hard tail) but for me switching to a DD in the rear has pretty much eliminated flats for the most part. If I'm going to pay a weight penalty it makes sense to me to pay it in a more durable tire, rather than with an insert. Unless you're running fragile plastic wheels, then I see where it might make sense to run an insert to help protect them. I do know some people riding with dh casing tires + inserts on their trail bike but I'm not smashing rocks enough to need that and probably not strong enough to be able to spin that much weight on long days without it impacting my endurance.

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Im not totally up on exo+ but the problem with exo is it has minor reinforcing of the sidewall but nothing extra for the tread casing. Cushcore would help not pinch flatting the tire but its not going to help external slashes or punctures. DD youll get decent sidewall reinforcement and a burlier casing under the tread. The cush core in that case will stop pinch flatting on the rim, give a damper ride and rim protection. EXO's just suck , plain and simple. You will find zero exo's at an ews race for that reason. DD weight tire with liner is a great compromise and in a lot of cases(pardon the pun) better than a lone dh tire. The liner gives benefits that no tire will so pick your happy medium.
Even better is wild enduro rear with liner and rockr2 front but it doesnt say maxxis on the side. Many exo/grid punctures and pinchs, then rim dings with DD and onza en/fr(DD equivalent same manufacturer). Rockr2 front and back and wild enduro rear with rockr2 front absolutely zero issues in 3 years, only changed for new ones when worn. Theyve even held most of tgeir air over the winter in super cold temps. Grip is better and wear is better. Wild enduro rear will absolutely destroy an aggressor dd in every way. Not even a remotely close comp

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Originally Posted by SJG

You can wear out a new 3C tire in 1 weekend on the Moab rocks, which is ridiculous.

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Not ridiculous, this compound excels in wet slippery conditions and can last a full season in the PNW (depending on the amount of east side riding you do), one would expect it to wear fast riding on sandpaper.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker

Cheng Shin tires used to mean cheap shit. It's amazing what a little (maxxis) branding will do.

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...............

It's even more confusing when you figure out that OE tires are often vastly different than the replacement ones they sell. Not always, but they are often very different. Same name, totally different? WTF?

The EXO, EXO+, and DD mostly affect the sidewalls.

It is also important to realize what kind of tire failure you are having. Sidewall slashes? Pinch flats (snake bites)? Burping (rolling over the sidewalls)? It took me 3 years to figure out that MY problem was soft sidewalls (Continental and Schwalbe), rolling over (burping) and actually pinch flatting. When I went to Maxxis I was able to eliminate the problems, AND drop 10psi for a better ride/traction.

I run a tire liner, but that's to prevent grenading rims, not tire protection.

I may not have made myself clear, but I would never run an Aggressor; seen too many problems with them.

OE and forgiving pnw dirt has kept them in business.

My aggressor DD 2.5 has been holding up well this summer through a smorgasbord of rock gardens around the region and I land on pointy things often. I just want a bit of a chunkier tire for next go to increase grip in wetter conditions. I don't run a very low PSI so that probably helps with sidewall durability

Ya, High Rollers are a horrible tire!

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Originally Posted by SJG

I personally prefer the dual compound over the 3C (triple compound).

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When I turn I want the tires to turn, and when I hit the brakes I want maximum WHOA, not skidding along the top.

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These comments are at odds with each other.

(Also, just saying "3C" doesn't really mean anything. Maxxis makes a few different 3C compounds, all of which ride and wear fairly differently)

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Just look at knob height. Shockingly, a 3mm tall knob offers less protection than a 6mm tall knob.

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The cornering knobs may be a little less tall compared to a Minion, but the knobs across the middle of the tire are taller than either Minion or HR2’s. There’s also more knobs on an Aggressor (which is why, at the same size and technology level, an Aggressor is heavier than a Minion or HR2) so by your theory it should offer more puncture protection.

Personally, I think a 60tpi EXO tire is a 60tpi EXO tire, and puncture protection is essentially the same.

How? The Aggressor slides on the marbles, the Assguy/DHF/DHR cuts thru them.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

These comments are at odds with each other.

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In my experience ANY of the 3C tires (even the Max Terra, which is supposed to be the longest lasting) goes at most 500mi. A dual compound version of the same tire goes well over 1000miles.

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Originally Posted by One (+) Sentence

The cornering knobs may be a little less tall compared to a Minion, but the knobs across the middle of the tire are taller than either Minion or HR2’s. There’s also more knobs on an Aggressor (which is why, at the same size and technology level, an Aggressor is heavier than a Minion or HR2) so by your theory it should offer more puncture protection.

Personally, I think a 60tpi EXO tire is a 60tpi EXO tire, and puncture protection is essentially the same.

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???

Aggressor's center knobs are most definitely not as tall as either of the minions or the hr2. I just measured them to confirm.

A 2.3 aggressor has 3mm center knobs.
Hr2 is 3.5mm in a 2.3
Dhr2 is 4mm in a 2.3, 4.5mm in a 2.4
Dhf is 4.8mm in a 2.5 (I didn't feel like digging around to find a 2.3)

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Originally Posted by toast2266

???

Aggressor's center knobs are most definitely not as tall as either of the minions or the hr2. I just measured them to confirm.

A 2.3 aggressor has 3mm center knobs.
Hr2 is 3.5mm in a 2.3
Dhr2 is 4mm in a 2.3, 4.5mm in a 2.4
Dhf is 4.8mm in a 2.5 (I didn't feel like digging around to find a 2.3)

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Hmmm. I think we are just gonna disagree on this one.

I’m not going to my garage to measure knob height. Both DHF and especially HR2 have ramped center knobs. In the case of the HR2, those center knobs a probably less than 1mm tall in the front of them.

Like I said, a 60tpi EXO tire is a 60tpi EXO tire and I think any correlation with Aggressors being more puncture prone is purely coincidental.

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Originally Posted by SJG

How? The Aggressor slides on the marbles, the Assguy/DHF/DHR cuts thru them.

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Easy, because Minions have more space between knobs, giving them a better chance to grab loose surfaces.