21/22 Bikes That Make Your Shorts Tighter.

So, the new Rocky Element was released today to the public. I have one reserved if I want it for next summer, but I just don’t know if I would be happy with just 120mm of travel for my daily driver. It would also need a piggyback shock and a 140mm fork, which I have. Decisions. I am assuming there will be no chance in hell of taking a demo out for a proper rip before committing in this environment. I know these short travel bikes have gotten way better, but that much better?

Every other detail/geo is just about perfect for a bike with this travel.

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On the short travel note, anyone here own or spent much time on the new Norco Optic (well, new last year). I found little on search, but we all know how searching TGR forums goes.

Background: I'm much more enduro bro than XC dweeb. My current only ride is a 2019 Transition Patrol that weighs in at a svelte 35# with a coil shock, Cush Core, DD tire in the rear, etc. It's a goddamn monster and I love it, but it unsurprisingly feels ponderous and sluggish on more rolling, pedally terrain. It's great where I live now - Denver area - where most of my riding is straight up followed by straight down, but there's a good chance I'll be moving to SW CO where it seems like a lot of the local riding (at least the lower elevation stuff) is a lot more rolling, XC type terrain. My riding style can best be described as smol brain, big peen, no talent. In other words, I go fast, pick bad lines (or don't pick at all), and let the bike save my dumb ass. Emphasis on "no talent" - I am not hitting THAT rowdy of stuff, just normal chunky trails with an above average penchant for poor decision making.

The most sensible option might be to sell the Patrol and get something around 140-150mm with a more efficient pedaling platform. But I love the Patrol so I'm tempted to keep that for summer shuttles in the high country, and pick up an aggressive short travel bike for more pedally rides. I've never going to be a lycra clad, out of the saddle sprinting speed weenie, and want to have fun and jump off stuff going down whenever possible. Hence thinking about the Optic.

Also related - is the Pike Select RC a pile of garbage? The C3 build on the Optic would make a second bike a lot more feasible. Brakes suck on that build, but I have a set of single pot XTs I could throw on and other than a few heavy items, most of the rest of the spec isn't horrible.

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Originally Posted by rideit

So, the new Rocky Element was released today to the public. I have one reserved if I want it for next summer, but I just don’t know if I would be happy with just 120mm of travel for my daily driver. It would also need a piggyback shock and a 140mm fork, which I have. Decisions. I am assuming there will be no chance in hell of taking a demo out for a proper rip before committing in this environment. I know these short travel bikes have gotten way better, but that much better?

Every other detail/geo is just about perfect for a bike with this travel.

Attachment 387080

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That thing is pretty. Not that helpful, but I got away with just a Spur from the beginning of July until now. I found that I'm a little slower on the bigger descents (Drake, Mike Sell, Phillips Canyon) but I'm a lot faster everywhere else. Rode a few pass days, and a few bike park days, and while I missed owning a big bike, Lithium and the like on the 120 mm bike is a real treat. If I didn't have racing dreams for next year, I could have happily stuck with just a little bike for general Teton riding. And if I lived on the Jackson side, I think I'd be even more happy with the smaller bike.

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Originally Posted by rideit

So, the new Rocky Element was released today to the public. I have one reserved if I want it for next summer, but I just don’t know if I would be happy with just 120mm of travel for my daily driver. It would also need a piggyback shock and a 140mm fork, which I have. Decisions. I am assuming there will be no chance in hell of taking a demo out for a proper rip before committing in this environment. I know these short travel bikes have gotten way better, but that much better?

Every other detail/geo is just about perfect for a bike with this travel.

Attachment 387080

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I have a Spur, and I mostly agree with Cy, but I think it depends on what else is in your garage.

If the 120mm rig is really your only bike, personally, I'd want something a bit bigger. I really like the Spur and I certainly can ride everything on it. But on bigger / faster / rougher descents, it's definitely less capable than any number of ~140mm bikes.

But I like the Spur as a compliment to a bigger AM / enduro sled.

Said it before and I'll say it again, the newer XC bikes are more capable, but they are still XC bikes. I love my Epic Evo to death. It's a good trail bike, but an incredible marathon bike. As Pinkbike said, its strength is that it's capable in multiple areas; being a true 50/50 bike is its strongest point.

As soon as that balance shifts to downhill focus, even at 49/51, I'd be looking at a Transition Spur at the very least.

I bet that Rocky is going to be great, but looking at it I bet it has the same issues as the Epic Evo, a lil' flexy in the rear, low in the front end, etc that keep it in the 50/50 range.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

On the short travel note, anyone here own or spent much time on the new Norco Optic (well, new last year). I found little on search, but we all know how searching TGR forums goes.

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I haven't ridden one, but a friend had his Sentinel stolen and replaced it with an Optic (I think C3), because that's what he could get. Seems like he hasn't slowed down any, but he isn't hitting big jump lines or scary steep rock death chute road gap nose manualé etc.

If you have the room and budget, you would probably like having both the Patrol smash bike and the Optic.

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Originally Posted by Toddball

If you have the room and budget

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Well, I am debating whether the wife will murder me, or just mildly maim me if I buy a second bike.

When pinkbike calls a bike "lively" it means that it flexes but doesn't break. It is designed to, look at those skinny tubes and head tube junction. You are dreaming if you think it can get rowdy and not feel like you are threading a thin line. Sure it is capable but it will not plow through to stuff without lots of feedback.

Ha. I have the 2019 Patrol too - I love the bike and pretty much ride it everywhere - but I realize it's limits. My plan was to buy the Norco Optic demo from the shop as a second bike and tell my wife it was her bike. Then I would kinda have two bikes while keeping her happy at the same time!! I took it out for a demo and was loving it. Super fun on the cross country stuff. I took it down a trail that was a little steeper with one gnarly root section I don't even think about on my Patrol. I took it full speed on the Norco like I do on the Transition, bottomed out the rear shock, and got bucked super hard. Landed badly and knocked myself out. I was ok otherwise but limped back to the shop and didn't buy the Optic. That crash saved me $3k. In hindsight, I wish I had both bikes. Just realize the Optic doesn't really do the same thing as the Patrol:) Which is probably exactly what you are after.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

On the short travel note, anyone here own or spent much time on the new Norco Optic (well, new last year)…

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I’ve had a 2021 Optic C1 for a few months now. Coming off an old Cannondale Gemini (170mm coil f & r, 26” wheels, outdated geometry. SC Bullit before that).

Most of my riding is normal ‘trail’ riding, but like you mostly up then down, not rolling. Couldn’t be happier with the bike for that.

I’ve also ridden Downieville and Northstar park with it. Obviously a longer travel bike would be better on the chunkier sections at the park, but I had no problems riding blacks at a decent speed with it (never got passed or held anyone up, anyway). Rode some double black and it’s definitely getting in over it’s head there, but at my age so am I. That said, I would absolutely chose to ride the Optic with its modern geometry and 29” wheels in the park over the old Gemini, even with the significant travel deficit.

Anything else you want to know about it?

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Anything else you want to know about it?

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Any comments on pedaling efficiency?

All the comments so far have been helpful, thanks!

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Any comments on pedaling efficiency?

All the comments so far have been helpful, thanks!

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Seems quite efficient when seated. Doesn’t feel like it moves much, and doesn’t look like the shock is moving much. Out of the saddle it does move more, but that’s pretty normal, and I don’t do that much anyway. Never reach for the lockout on a trail, pretty much only use it if I have a bit of a paved road climb.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

I have a Spur, and I mostly agree with Cy, but I think it depends on what else is in your garage.

If the 120mm rig is really your only bike, personally, I'd want something a bit bigger. I really like the Spur and I certainly can ride everything on it. .

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I currently have a 140/160 Instinct and a 160/170 Altitude, which is a lot of overlap. This would replace the Instinct for our more chill trails.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Any comments on pedaling efficiency?

All the comments so far have been helpful, thanks!

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I'm rocking a two bike quiver now. Most of my goals are in line with yours and I ended adding a Revel Ranger to my stable with my '19 Patrol. I can't recommend it enough. It handles the down really well with even a touch of proper line choice and it's pedaling prowess is insane. CBF rear suspension is damn good. I'm running a runt in the Fox 34sc on it too, so that helps a fair deal with small bump suppleness without losing my bottom out resistance. Highly recommend.


If you leave your massive balls on the shelf at home before you ride "down country" bikes, you'll love the hell out of having one.

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Originally Posted by NW_SKIER

I'm rocking a two bike quiver now. Most of my goals are in line with yours and I ended adding a Revel Ranger to my stable with my '19 Patrol. I can't recommend it enough. It handles the down really well with even a touch of proper line choice and it's pedaling prowess is insane. CBF rear suspension is damn good. I'm running a runt in the Fox 34sc on it too, so that helps a fair deal with small bump suppleness without losing my bottom out resistance. Highly recommend.


If you leave your massive balls on the shelf at home before you ride "down country" bikes, you'll love the hell out of having one.

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So, obviously there’s some overlap between the Ranger, Element*, and Optic, but to me the Optic seems like more of a short travel modern ‘trail’ bike (Fox 36, piggyback shock, beefier frame), whereas the Ranger and Instinct appear to be more ‘downcountry’ (lighter duty suspension, skinnier frame) even though the geometries are all pretty similar (maybe not as much so for the Ranger).

Not saying either choice is right or wrong, just that you should be aware of your intentions when choosing. I personally don’t think I would have been as happy with the Element or Ranger, but I was also looking for one bike to do it all, and had a history of riding bigger bikes.

Edit: *Element not Instinct like I originally said.

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Originally Posted by rideit

I currently have a 140/160 Instinct and a 160/170 Altitude, which is a lot of overlap. This would replace the Instinct for our more chill trails.

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Yeah, that's more or less where I was. Had an esker rowl + spec enduro, which overlapped too much. Replaced the rowl with the spur, which makes for a good two bike quiver that I'm pretty happy with.

If I'm gonna go deep into 1st world problem territory, I would say that I do sometimes miss having one middle of the road bike that does decently at everything. The spur definitely feels undergunned on big descents, and the enduro is a pig (at least how I have it built) and kinda sucks on bigger pedally rides.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

So, obviously there’s some overlap between the Ranger, Instinct, and Optic, but to me the Optic seems like more of a short travel modern ‘trail’ bike (Fox 36, piggyback shock, beefier frame), whereas the Ranger and Instinct appear to be more ‘downcountry’ (lighter duty suspension, skinnier frame) even though the geometries are all pretty similar (maybe not as much so for the Ranger).

Not saying either choice is right or wrong, just that you should be aware of your intentions when choosing. I personally don’t think I would have been as happy with the instinct or Ranger, but I was also looking for one bike to do it all, and had a history of riding bigger bikes.

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Can't argue that. My thought process was to have two bikes that uniquely compliment each other without massive overlap. I know exactly what I want out of my day depending in which bike I load up. If I were to be looking for a one bike quiver, I'd think differently.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Yeah, that's more or less where I was. Had an esker rowl + spec enduro, which overlapped too much. Replaced the rowl with the spur, which makes for a good two bike quiver that I'm pretty happy with.

If I'm gonna go deep into 1st world problem territory, I would say that I do sometimes miss having one middle of the road bike that does decently at everything. The spur definitely feels undergunned on big descents, and the enduro is a pig (at least how I have it built) and kinda sucks on bigger pedally rides.

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N+1

Since we're talking Optics, Spurs etc. Anybody got som time on the Banshee Phantom V3? Obviously a bit heavier than the Spur especially, but still looks to be pretty efficient, while speced to take som abuse.

There might just have to be three bikes in the quiver for a few months while I decide which I use the most! The other option is a Kona Process 134, which would be MUCH cheaper, but again, I really wish I could properly thrash one first.

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Originally Posted by rideit

There might just have to be three bikes in the quiver for a few months while I decide which I use the most! The other option is a Kona Process 134, which would be MUCH cheaper, but again, I really wish I could properly thrash one first.

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What size are you? Scotty at Habitat has a Large 134 that I bet you could trade some brews for a few days on.

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Originally Posted by sf

Since we're talking Optics, Spurs etc. Anybody got som time on the Banshee Phantom V3? Obviously a bit heavier than the Spur especially, but still looks to be pretty efficient, while speced to take som abuse.

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I’m on a Prime V3. It pedals efficiently. Not “peppy” or “hover-bikey” like a lighter carbon dual link bike…. But it just cranks along efficiently. I feel like it takes me longer to get to the top vs my old Bronson V1, but Strava tells me I’m faster… I’m certainly less tired at the top though… It’s heavy and you feel that weight. I have mine built with a coil on the rear and a 150mm 36 up front… downhill it’s what you would expect.

I’m not sure who the Phantom is for though…. Not sure what terrain you would be riding if you want the beef of a Banshee but only with 115mm of travel…


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by NW_SKIER

I'm rocking a two bike quiver now. Most of my goals are in line with yours and I ended adding a Revel Ranger to my stable with my '19 Patrol. I can't recommend it enough. It handles the down really well with even a touch of proper line choice and it's pedaling prowess is insane. CBF rear suspension is damn good. I'm running a runt in the Fox 34sc on it too, so that helps a fair deal with small bump suppleness without losing my bottom out resistance. Highly recommend.


If you leave your massive balls on the shelf at home before you ride "down country" bikes, you'll love the hell out of having one.

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You running that Fox at 120?

Actually now that I ask I don’t even know if that fork can go to 130.

I’m running a 120 SID on my Ranger and am 130 curious.


Sent from the Utility Muffin Research Kitchen

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

On the short travel note, anyone here own or spent much time on the new Norco Optic (well, new last year). I found little on search, but we all know how searching TGR forums goes.

Background: I'm much more enduro bro than XC dweeb. My current only ride is a 2019 Transition Patrol that weighs in at a svelte 35# with a coil shock, Cush Core, DD tire in the rear, etc. It's a goddamn monster and I love it, but it unsurprisingly feels ponderous and sluggish on more rolling, pedally terrain. It's great where I live now - Denver area - where most of my riding is straight up followed by straight down, but there's a good chance I'll be moving to SW CO where it seems like a lot of the local riding (at least the lower elevation stuff) is a lot more rolling, XC type terrain. My riding style can best be described as smol brain, big peen, no talent. In other words, I go fast, pick bad lines (or don't pick at all), and let the bike save my dumb ass. Emphasis on "no talent" - I am not hitting THAT rowdy of stuff, just normal chunky trails with an above average penchant for poor decision making.

The most sensible option might be to sell the Patrol and get something around 140-150mm with a more efficient pedaling platform. But I love the Patrol so I'm tempted to keep that for summer shuttles in the high country, and pick up an aggressive short travel bike for more pedally rides. I've never going to be a lycra clad, out of the saddle sprinting speed weenie, and want to have fun and jump off stuff going down whenever possible. Hence thinking about the Optic.

Also related - is the Pike Select RC a pile of garbage? The C3 build on the Optic would make a second bike a lot more feasible. Brakes suck on that build, but I have a set of single pot XTs I could throw on and other than a few heavy items, most of the rest of the spec isn't horrible.

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The Optic sounds like the perfect bike to compliment the Patrol.

I live in SW CO and all the guys who work at the shop I frequent (and half their friends) are on the Optic this year. It really bridges the gap between the new downcountry category and trail bike perfectly. It crushes the high country riding around here and isn't outgunned anywhere except the Purg bike park... maybe. I peddled one for a short ride recently and was blown away about how much more efficient it was than my 2019 Sight while not feeling any less capable on a downhill I ride almost weekly.

As appealing as the geometry, weight, and efficiency of these downcountry bikes are, I've recently realized that of the guys I regularly ride with, I'm already the fastest one to the top. Yeah, there's guys I occasionally ride with that are a bit stronger climbers, but that's pretty infrequent. So if I'm going to be sitting around waiting for the guy slowly spinning the 30x52 gear on his 27.5 bike to the top, there's no point in my getting a downcountry bike. On top of that, my ride times are limited to around 2-3 hours, so I wouldn't see the benefits of a light whippet on an all day ride. At least for now.

That said, I wouldn't mind it if I could snap my fingers and make my bike a pound or more lighter to make it easier to throw around, but that's not happening with this frame (GG).