Fu*king Cyclists

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Originally Posted by highangle

I'm of the opinion they have to be proven in court to weigh against defendant.

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So if the charges are proven in courts, what do you think the consequences should be?


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Originally Posted by altasnob

This post sums up everything that is wrong with the criminal justice system. We are talking about a 16 year old. You, I, and everyone else did some dumb shit when we were 16. We just got lucky. If you want to correct this 16 year old's behavior, you have to go all the way back to when his parents were growing up.

I haven't expressed an opinion on what is an appropriate sentence. Just pointing out sentencing 16 year olds for crimes is difficult, and I believe it is best if the sentence tries to set this kid up for success in life, not failure.

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So we should show minors that there are no consequences even if they do really horrible things?


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I assume that the defense will argue that he was trying to annoy the cyclists and did not intend to hit them. Assuming how believable that comes across--and it would probably mean the kid would have to testify and be sympathetic to the jury--I would consider that like driving drunk or driving grossly over the speed limit, and injuring someone with the same range of penalties.
He should be tried as a juvenile, because he's a juvenile and way too many kids (especially Black kids) are tried as adults. The way to bring equity to the justice system is not to treat white defendants as unfairly as Black.

I am not advocating for a slap on the wrist. Certainly the kid should face consequences, only that the consequences should be based on the facts of the crime, the kid's age, lack of criminal record, and be proportionate to other similar offenses. And when he gets out of whatever juvenile detention facility he winds up in, he should be sent to a reeducaton camp in Berkeley CA.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So we should show minors that there are no consequences even if they do really horrible things?

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I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth. I would need to know the unbiased facts of the case, the defendant's criminal history, and any other mitigating or aggravating factors before I could state what I think is an appropriate sentence. But I think any license suspension should include an ability to obtain an occupational license to drive to work and school. I think any fine or restitution should allow the defendant to make minimum monthly payments based on their ability to pay (which could change over time). I am in favor of community service over incarceration. How many people do you know crushing it in life with a serious criminal conviction when they were 16?

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So if the charges are proven in courts, what do you think the consequences should be?

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Increased fines for not maintaining statutory minimum speed on Texas highways.


So if the charges aren't proven in court, what do you think the consequences should be for witnesses who dissimulate and falsely impute intent?

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Originally Posted by highangle

I'm of the opinion they have to be proven in court to weigh against defendant.

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I asked if you, personally, believe they were fabricated by the witnesses at the scene.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth. I would need to know the unbiased facts of the case, the defendant's criminal history, and any other mitigating or aggravating factors before I could state what I think is an appropriate sentence. But I think any license suspension should include an ability to obtain an occupational license to drive to work and school. I think any fine or restitution should allow the defendant to make minimum monthly payments based on their ability to pay (which could change over time). I am in favor of community service over incarceration. How many people do you know crushing it in life with a serious criminal conviction when they were 16?

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Community service? When there are kids doing time for nonviolent drug offenses? Nope. Some kind of juvenile detention for sure. And as far as license suspension--certainly no exemption for work or school until he's 18 AND out of his parents' home, and then let him petition the court for restoration of his license if his circumstances make school or work impossible without it.. Otherwise not unt he's 21. Lots of people in this country get to work and school without cars--because they can't afford one. Let him ride a bike.

I hope you all know I was being (somewhat) facaetious. Sure, he should get a juvenile sized punishment, but if laws are meant to curb egregious behaviors, then this case is an opportunity to make a concrete example.
Too bad that it might have to be this kid as opposed to an adult drunk taking out and killing a number of cyclists…

There are entire YouTube compilations of trucks rolling coal on bikes and online communities who think this rolling coal and buzzing bikes and pedestrians behavior is funny.

I’m all for making an example.

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Originally Posted by rideit

I hope you all know I was being (somewhat) facaetious. Sure, he should get a juvenile sized punishment, but if laws are meant to curb egregious behaviors, then this case is an opportunity to make a concrete example.
Too bad that it might have to be this kid as opposed to an adult drunk taking out and killing a number of cyclists…

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Bikelaw certainly wants to make an example of this kid [and rake in as much cash as they can]. Why should you be any different?

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Originally Posted by altasnob

I didn't say that. You are putting words in my mouth. I would need to know the unbiased facts of the case, the defendant's criminal history, and any other mitigating or aggravating factors before I could state what I think is an appropriate sentence. But I think any license suspension should include an ability to obtain an occupational license to drive to work and school. I think any fine or restitution should allow the defendant to make minimum monthly payments based on their ability to pay (which could change over time). I am in favor of community service over incarceration. How many people do you know crushing it in life with a serious criminal conviction when they were 16?

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I’m not putting anything in your mouth, you do know what a question is, right? See the question mark?

My best friend in high school got a felony conviction for drunk driving, burglary and destruction of property. He spent time in jail when we were in 10th and 11th grade, I think it was every weekend for a year, probation and community service. He owns his own wholesale mortgage company. He’s white just like this idiot.


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Originally Posted by highangle

Bikelaw certainly wants to make an example of this kid [and rake in as much cash as they can]. Why should you be any different?

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What’s your point?

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Originally Posted by highangle

Increased fines for not maintaining statutory minimum speed on Texas highways.


So if the charges aren't proven in court, what do you think the consequences should be for witnesses who dissimulate and falsely impute intent?

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So you’re blaming the cyclists?


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Originally Posted by old_newguy

There are entire YouTube compilations of trucks rolling coal on bikes and online communities who think this rolling coal and buzzing bikes and pedestrians behavior is funny.

I’m all for making an example.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ehDR7oBw0

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Originally Posted by highangle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ehDR7oBw0

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Kinetic energy. Idiot bicyclists is a self solving problem.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Community service? When there are kids doing time for nonviolent drug offenses? Nope. Some kind of juvenile detention for sure. And as far as license suspension--certainly no exemption for work or school until he's 18 AND out of his parents' home, and then let him petition the court for restoration of his license if his circumstances make school or work impossible without it.. Otherwise not unt he's 21. Lots of people in this country get to work and school without cars--because they can't afford one. Let him ride a bike.

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Kids (and adults) aren't doing jail for simple drug possession, at least in more progressive places, like the Seattle area. Maybe for repeatedly getting caught dealing, but not just possession. I am in favor of the drug court model of criminal punishment. Lots of probation officers and court involvement. Rules and programs you must follow and if you violate those rules, short, swift, punishment (like 1 to 5 days jail). Studies show easier to modify behavior with short and swift punishment rather than long term incarceration. When young, impressionable kids (or young adults) go to jail for the first time, they make friends with other, more hardened, criminals and the rest is history.

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Originally Posted by highangle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5ehDR7oBw0

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What does this have to do with a 16 yo allegedly rolling coal on a group of cyclists, losing control and running over six of them? They were in broad daylight wearing bright colors and legally using the road.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

What does this have to do with a 16 yo allegedly rolling coal on a group of cyclists, losing control and running over six of them? They were in broad daylight wearing bright colors and legally using the road.


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He once saw a biker on the Seward Highway towing a bike trailer and the rest is history.

Highangle was either brutally raped by a peloton in team kit when he was a child, or a cyclist once made him 37 seconds late, and he still harbors a grudge.

Nope, just an angry turd.

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Originally Posted by rideit

What’s your point?

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You're screaming for vengeance. In a little while, you'll be riding around in traffic like Spike, daring anyone to get in your way. Then you'll be out demanding the taxpayers further support your hobby of riding roads parallel to bike paths, because that's what you want.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

He once saw a biker on the Seward Highway towing a bike trailer and the rest is history.

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And instead of doing anything constructive, came here to whine about it

(though in fairness, that criticism could be applied to me too)

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

And instead of doing anything constructive, came here to whine about it

(though in fairness, that criticism could be applied to me too)

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I bought train horns to teach road bikers to stay far enough away from my vehicles to avoid any chance of an accident. Safety first.

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Originally Posted by altasnob

This post sums up everything that is wrong with the criminal justice system. We are talking about a 16 year old. You, I, and everyone else did some dumb shit when we were 16. We just got lucky. If you want to correct this 16 year old's behavior, you have to go all the way back to when his parents were growing up.

I haven't expressed an opinion on what is an appropriate sentence. Just pointing out sentencing 16 year olds for crimes is difficult, and I believe it is best if the sentence tries to set this kid up for success in life, not failure.

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Ahhh yes. The old “whom amongst us didn’t have complete disregard for other human beings at 16” argument.

Attachment 392126

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Originally Posted by highangle

I bought train horns to teach road bikers to stay far enough away from my vehicles to avoid any chance of an accident. Safety first.

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Loser.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

What does this have to do with a 16 yo allegedly rolling coal on a group of cyclists, losing control and running over six of them? They were in broad daylight wearing bright colors and legally using the road.

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I'd explain that that vid was in reply to the post I quoted when I posted that vid, but I don't give a fuck if you're happy with it or not after you deliberately misconstrued my post in an effort to feign confusion and gain some sort of groveling camaraderie with the pathetic road biker lynch mob gathered here in the wrong thread. Clear?

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Originally Posted by mcphee

Loser.

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reported

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Nope, just an angry turd.

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Old man shakes fist at cloud.

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Originally Posted by mcphee

Loser.

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Totally agree.

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Originally Posted by powdrhound

Totally agree.

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totally reported

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Originally Posted by highangle

reported

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Cry more, Pussy.

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Originally Posted by highangle

I'd explain that that vid was in reply to the post I quoted when I posted that vid, but I don't give a fuck if you're happy with it or not after you deliberately misconstrued my post in an effort to feign confusion and gain some sort of groveling camaraderie with the pathetic road biker lynch mob gathered here in the wrong thread. Clear?

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So you were analy raped by road bikers and your derision of cyclists stems from your enjoyment of said gang rape. Sound about right?


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So my mom was analy raped by road bikers and your derision of cyclists stems from your enjoyment of said gang rape. Sound about right?


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Yeah I can roll with that.

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Originally Posted by highangle

Yeah I can roll with that.

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Nice edit. Are you salty because the anal rape caused your incontinence?


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Nice edit. Are you salty because mom's anal rape caused your incontinence?


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Man, that's a big word.
Come clean, did you get it from mcpheephee?

Who else here things Rittenhouse and this punk are essentially the same level of sociopath? Amirite? Or, convince me otherwise..

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Who else here things Rittenhouse and this punk are essentially the same level of sociopath? Amirite? Or, convince me otherwise..

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no
just educated in a manner inconsistent with ethical treatment of others

totally fixable if we can convince society that people are valuable

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

no
just educated in a manner inconsistent with ethical treatment of others

totally fixable if we can convince society that people are valuable

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So not killing people is "ethical treatment" OK...

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Who else here things Rittenhouse and this punk are essentially the same level of sociopath? Amirite? Or, convince me otherwise..

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One chose to intimidate with their deadly weapon from a position of safety where there where ZERO expected consequences, and (likely) no intention to kill. The deadly weapon was likely not viewed as deadly by the kid, and it doesnt seem like he was out specifically to intimidate cyclists that day. Seems removed from destruction the way you are in a video-game and i bet he was legit not expecting to do anything other than roll coal and post a vid on Youtube.

The other chose to intimidate in the thick of an explosive situation with a very real and expected chance to engage with their deadly weapon. That deadly weapon is used for a single thing- killing people, nothing else. No other reason to have it around. He wasnt just cruising around with it. A handgun would have been far more appropriate for simple protection as it wouldnt immediately draw attention from the very volatile crowd. Instead, guy illegally borrowed a straight up assault rifle, threw on his finest gravy seal costume, and congregated with a bunch of other gravy seals to create a vigilante show of force and intimidate people knowing full well the likelyhood of a violent engagement would be high doing so.

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Originally Posted by old_newguy

There are entire YouTube compilations of trucks rolling coal on bikes and online communities who think this rolling coal and buzzing bikes and pedestrians behavior is funny.

I’m all for making an example.

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Whatever happened to deliberately driving through puddles to spray walkers?