Fuel Prices.

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Originally Posted by teleee

Isn’t lithium a pretty similar process to any other other mining process? Mined from ore (which will always involve a pit and digging? I think it is pretty similar to the gold mining process. Ore is mined, crushed, roasted and then leached out in bid leach ponds. Unless I am completely wrong, which I could be. But If you are going to process ore you need to dig it out, regardless of what type of mineral it is.


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appears nv mine gets it from deep salt water wells too

https://www.albemarle.com/offerings/lithium/lithium-101

"Brine containing high concentrations of lithium is pulled from saltwater aquifers using extraction wells. From the wellhead, the brine is diverted to an evaporation pond system. Using solar evaporation, the lithium salts are concentrated in the brine and eventually routed to the next pond in the system. This step is continued multiple times, until the lithium concentration reaches a level high enough for conversion to lithium carbonate or lithium hydroxide."

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

appears nv mine gets it from deep salt water wells too

https://www.albemarle.com/offerings/lithium/lithium-101

"Brine containing high concentrations of lithium is pulled from saltwater aquifers using extraction wells. From the wellhead, the brine is diverted to an evaporation pond system. Using solar evaporation, the lithium salts are concentrated in the brine and eventually routed to the next pond in the system. This step is continued multiple times, until the lithium concentration reaches a level high enough for conversion to lithium carbonate or lithium hydroxide."

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Yep, my company has done a small amount of work for those mines as well. Not arguing about the process just the fact there is more than one technique being employed. In the long run I am on the side of EV vehicles for fossil fuels, but to think there isnt any impacts is myopic. Pulling water out of aquifers has its impacts as well.


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Check out cobalt mining in the Congo. 80% of it comes from there. Literally slaves clawing in the ground at gunpoint w thier bare hands. Noone cares.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...siddharth-kara

dam you are much more nonweldable than my ass googling things lol.

I guess i'd rather a single point source pollution of a mine that is localized to some area in the middle of nowhere in some briny aquifer that no one uses instead of mass amounts of co2 being released into the atmosphere and all the infrastructure to support moving/storage/dispensing/combusting of fuels all over the planet which has much more impact to more people

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Originally Posted by byates1

Check out cobalt mining in the Congo. 80% of it comes from there. Literally slaves clawing in the ground at gunpoint w thier bare hands. Noone cares.

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its fucked at least I can pretend to care and hope for better conditions for those workers? Unfortunately there is not a certificate of clean ethical mining I can get when I buy an ev.

i guess i could just walk everywhere lol

For the record, I hate big oil companies and it would do my heart good to see them all go bankrupt.


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Originally Posted by teleee

For the record, I hate big oil companies and it would do my heart good to see them all go bankrupt.


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90% of the revenue for the company I work for comes from oil and gas Attachment 465340 but we pretend that we are making them greener!

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

You asked about Lithium. Lithium is evaporative. They certainly do have to do dig up ore in some instances but I don't think it would be at a scale of the Bingham canyon mine (you are using the most extreme example of open pit mine as you noted). Both are going to have a footprint to some degree, pick your poison.

If you watch that 60 mins video you'll see they are grabbing brine from deep in the earth. Here I linked to the time stamp: https://youtu.be/ApxGBJJH0jw?t=288

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I use the Bingham mine because it’s certainly left ann impression, if you’ve ever been up there, it’s pretty amazing. Giant ass mining trucks look like little miniature Tonka toys in a hole 3/4 of a mile deep that you can’t see the bottom of.

Still curious, where Nevada would find the water for such mining operations.

Thacker pass mine in Nevada I believe is proposed open pit, but I guess probably wouldn’t have a hole in the ground as big as Utah

The reality it we are going to be digging shit up and lighting shit on fire for a long time. Maybe someday like 2000 plus years from now we'll figure out how to harness gravity or whatever but until then....

I think wv's can serve a purpose for a lot of urban and suburban in ppl. It's perfect for the family that drives little.

But gov mandates of rapidly going ev in like 8 years is insane. There is nowhere near the level of power available needed. And most of that is oil and coal . It's largely a feel good bs political move...

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

Still curious, where Nevada would find the water for such mining operations.

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As linked above in a separate post and in that video they have wells that are sucking up a brine and then concentrating that brine via evaporation. To the best of my knowledge they are not adding fresh water to the mining/processing on site.


Here is the wiki on the Thatcher pass mine (not the albermerle one I linked earlier)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacke...action_process

Not seeing any mention of adding fresh water here.

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Originally Posted by byates1

But gov mandates of rapidly going ev in like 8 years is insane. There is nowhere near the level of power available needed. And most of that is oil and coal . It's largely a feel good bs political move...

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which is why any ev mandates need to be two/three fold with a focus on grid updates and electrical production updates for nuclear, wind, solar and grid storage (battery? some other tech idk). Even if my ev power is coming from coal/oil/gas it's more efficient/cleaner to burn at a single site (power generation plant) then a bunch of mini power plants (gas car engine).

Here's a cool website that will show where your power is coming from in real time!: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map

Cali has already passed some insane mandate with 0 regard to where the actual power will come from. Morons.

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

its fucked at least I can pretend to care and hope for better conditions for those workers? Unfortunately there is not a certificate of clean ethical mining I can get when I buy an ev.

i guess i could just walk everywhere lol

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You could walk or bike everywhere but you won’t. This crisis of energy and personal vehicles is a people problem. People can’t be bothered to walk or bike a few miles and public transit is a stigma for most Americans. Everyone has a solution in their head and they’re willing to share it with anyone but they’re still going to get in their personal vehicle to run errands or commute to work because they think they’re not part of the problem and they’re selfish.


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Originally Posted by teleee

For the record, I hate big oil companies and it would do my heart good to see them all go bankrupt.


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You’ll soon hate “big mining”. I don’t see any difference in business ethics between the two.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

You could walk or bike everywhere but you won’t. This crisis of energy and personal vehicles is a people problem. People can’t be bothered to walk or bike a few miles and public transit is a stigma for most Americans. Everyone has a solution in their head and they’re willing to share it with anyone but they’re still going to get in their personal vehicle to run errands or commute to work because they think they’re not part of the problem and they’re selfish.

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Yep - and we don't have the political will to put people in office that will REALLY discourage behavior that we *know* is a problem and encourage behavior that helps.

Mostly because freedumb.

Send this thread to Polyass!

:D

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

You’ll soon hate “big mining”. I don’t see any difference in business ethics between the two.

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Oh I hate big mining just as much. I spent the first few years of my career in new mine construction and I can tell you from experience they give zero fucks about the environment. All the other heavy metals that are a side effect of the leaching process will become hazardous waste that we will have to deal with down the road. There is no easy answer, we are a giant race of self destructive cockroaches.


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Agreed. Our existence is questionable on many levels.

That said - we need to make PROGRESS as opposed to throwing our hands up because the progress isn't perfect right out of the gate.

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

That said - we need to make PROGRESS as opposed to throwing our hands up because the progress isn't perfect right out of the gate.

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this.....BUT BUT BUT california doesn't have enough power by 2035 is not a good argument to stall the progress of grid development, clean power generation and EV deployment.

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

That said - we need to make PROGRESS as opposed to throwing our hands up because the progress isn't perfect right out of the gate.

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Oh I agree there needs to be progress but it is not good to just assume that there is a magic bullet out there that will solve everything, if we are aware of the issues then we can focus on them. To just say EV’s will solve all of the issues is flat out wrong. They will solve several and in the process will create new ones.


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Originally Posted by teleee

Oh I agree there needs to be progress but it is not good to just assume that there is a magic bullet out there that will solve everything, if we are aware of the issues then we can focus on them. To just say EV’s will solve all of the issues is flat out wrong. They will solve several and in the process will create new ones.

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No argument from me. This problem has no magic bullets. But the more people that get on board with PROGRESSING, the better.

^ I assume you'll lead the charge by getting rid of all ice engines, turning off you power permanently, getting a rickshaw, and eating bugs going forward. Thx appreciate it

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Originally Posted by byates1

^ I assume you'll lead the charge by getting rid of all ice engines, turning off you power permanently, getting a rickshaw, and eating bugs going forward. Thx appreciate it

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:rolleyes2

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

:rolleyes2

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Hardline all or nothing people are fascinating. I imagine a life of 'awww shucks' shoulder shrugs doing much of nothing.

Protip on projects bigger than filling a grocery bag: incremental and continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection. You realize results as you go, allows you to adjust course.