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OMG I had no idea Vail owns Boston Mills now. The world is going to shit. Vail does nothing for the ski industry. Only buying resorts like monopoly properties. Never investing anything into them just collecting resorts to be the biggest conglomerate. Sad day for all those that live in NE Ohio that ski.
For those who don't know I grew up skiing at Boston Mills. Live and ski in Utah now.
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^^^ vail has a long history of buying shitty midwestern hills. Then the customer gets an epic pass and can’t say no to free skiing at vail properties out west.
It’s not a stupid biz model.
Valid point, I won't double down to argue that.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
There are a lot of experienced patrollers at major western ski areas owned by VR who do not view the unions favorably, and in fact, resent them. I could see them flying in at VR's request and compensation. That was the crowd I was referring to, I could've been more specific.
“Resent them?” Really? I know pro patrollers at a few western ski hills, one is vail-owned, that definitely do not resent the unions.
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It would be amusing to see some Ohio scab trying to ski in more than 3 or 4” of snow in PC.
All the patrollers and former trollers I know in CO & UT ( snow science guys) think the unions are needed and Vail has been dragging their feet. These folks save lives ( mine included) mitigate risk andmake the resort skiing experience p[possible. Pay them a fair wage
Stumbled into a link to an interview with fucker Carlson and the current teamsters boss. He had to defend his appearance at RNC. Wasn’t invited to DNC. I guess times change. The most rabid dumps fans I know are union.
He did say the RNC wanted him to edit his speech. He calls drumpf and the quote is “say whatever the fuck your want”
Yeah. Typical Donny. Say anything to be liked.
But I found it interesting insofar as the left has lost the working man. Get your shit together!
Posted a quick summary to save you from having to watch the blue blood bow tie wearing erudite Yankee
The only reason I used Boston Mills is that it's the wife's home hill. There's actually a lot of you out west.Quote:
Originally Posted by F#*k you cat
Which is my home mountain. Some of the routes are no joke. It's exposed and steep. Lots of ice and large snow accumulation from storms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
I'm sure there are mountains than any average skier can patrol at, but you better be able to ski at Alpine/Squaw to do the routes.
E. Knudsen still around SVSP?
I did a patrol exchange with Alpine way back when they and Park City were owned by the same family, 1988 I think. Terrible winter, extreme low tide conditions made it really hard to picture the avalanche that destroyed the Alpine base area. Did 1 day over at Squaw but the skiing was so awful we went to Reno for some day drinking. Meanwhile we were getting snow in UT.:fmicon:
I was a pro patroller at one of the VR heavyweights when they unionized. I left before the curtain fell on the voting results. The following is coming directly from some of those patrollers as recently as a few months ago who did not support unionization at the time or now: a large part of the union messaging has been "career wages" and "improve retention", which is something we can all get behind. The problem with the execution was that the patrollers who received the most drastic wage increases were generally in the early career stage, while line patrollers who had 10, 15, 20+ years under their belt (i.e., the ones already making a career run) saw marginal wage increases by comparison. Patrollers who were supervisors were not eligible to be in the union. So there was a perception, and likely at least some reality, that patrollers who had a ton of sweat equity, institutional knowledge, and a disproportionate level of responsibility within the organization were not being compensated in an equitable way. This was coupled with what is assumed to be historic levels of senior patroller attrition since COVID (don't have the numbers to back that up, but it's unanimously agreed on). We're talking hundreds of years of experience. When you put those two together, it once again creates a perception and a messaging problem for the union that fosters resentment.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Those patrollers or that particular patrol are clearly not representative of larger trends, but there's this belief that patrol unions are universally adored, good for everyone, and competently managed - and it's patently false. Don't get it twisted. I vividly remember the state of things when the union was being voted on. Something had to be done in the absence of action by patrol management. But when you have a union leader saying "I don't care if this all goes to shit, my wife's family has money so Vail can fire me" (direct quote), you can count on the smartest brains in the room being drowned out by the loudest voices. That's how you arrive at mismanagement, division within the patrol, and lack of transparency, which is a bit of a paradox as the union is supposed to prevent that. That part is obviously anecdotal from my personal experience and observations, I'm not speaking for PCSP or their current situation.
To clarify my stance, not that anyone asked, I'm not pro or anti union. I chose not to vote because I was appalled by the division which had been created. I want nothing but the best for everyone at my old patrol and elsewhere. If that's with a union, great. If that's without a union, also great. I'm trying to present the facts and opinions shared with me as objectively as possible, which I'll admit, is hard to do when discussing something as personal and subjective as the decision to unionize.
I totally believe you, and I totally agree with you. Everyone supports increased compensation. And now you have senior VR patrollers being pulled away from their families to PC during Christmas as part of the Patrol Support Team. You're right, Vail has been dragging their feet, and it's totally possible they'll lose complete control of the narrative if they don't act. I suspect the majority of VR patrollers want some kind of unionization just like you said. There is, however, a "silent" population out there, which is way larger than you think, isn't stoked on their union representation, and they don't get a voice outside of the patrol hut. It's a big world out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
This thread has me digging up some weird memories, so on a way more positive and completely unrelated note...
When I left Vail Resorts, I was near rock bottom and was going to leave the ski industry. One of the people who gave me some guidance was Bunion, who started doing this shit before a lot of us were alive. Looong story short, I stayed, and got involved with the greatest ski area ever conceived. Thanks, Bunion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowMachine
so you’re saying that every single patroller at swqalpine runs all of those lines every single day? or is the reality that a small portion of their total numbers actually has the responsibility of running the avie routes?
Thanks for sharing all of that! And sorry to dig up bad feels/memories.
The conflict or issues between supervisor and nonsupervisor in a unionized shop is common, and sometimes abused by the employer. A good employer will adequately compensate those in the manager/supervisor roles.
One Tahoe area pro-patrol are openly wearing items visible by guests (ski stickers) to indicate their desire to unionize.
A long time pro-union friend is no longer pro-patrol. They’re in management now.
"Ohio is a good place to be from." Someone told me that one time and it's become something I say frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
The thought of an Ohio ski patroller traversing into avy terrain to throw bombs or do a ski cut is pretty funny.
That seems overly-optimistic. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by snowaddict91
The vail ski patrollers i know are more self righteous than they are proficient in actual mountain skills. 95% of their job is to sled hurt newbies down the hill. Being just a chain in link they secure the victim and get them to someone with medical experience. It is a pretty mellow job that allows for big egos in a town full of dick measuring. Patrollers from Ohio will have no problem mitigating the actual hazards that vail has to offer.
Except that Vail SP isn't the group that may walk out. And unlike Vail, PC/Canyons does have real AC routes.Quote:
Originally Posted by m14fc1
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr walker
Key word COMPENSATION.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr walker
As a former unionized employee, I can tell you that when something like this goes down, volunteers are requested.
The only ones that are forced are management (supervisors).
Don't feel sorry for anyone not being home at Christmas.
I'd ask some old friends at Fail, but everyone I knew there aged out long ago.
Edit: m14fc1 - if you personally know some current Fail patrollers, ask them "what's the story ?".
Inquiring minds want to know.
Unless there are any Fail patrollers on here that want to chime in.
Attachment 508223
From Reddit so take it with a little salt. Lift incident at Heavenly yesterday, 12/23/2024
Ouch.
As much as we like no lift lines I’m an old bastard that likes fix grip slow chairs.
More rest time on the couch
Less traffic on the hill
And I don’t trust those spring clamps. I ride them. But it’s sus
Yes, you're correct. By senior patrollers, I meant management/supervisors, and they have been sent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ski220
I'll push back on your comment about not feeling sorry for management. I know who the patrollers are that were sent to PC, and I do think they've been put in a shitty position. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown", maybe, but they both took their positions to serve the patrol, not VR. They care deeply about the patrol and are good people, even if we're not invited to each other's birthday parties.
They all need to go to galts gulch for the season.
Got some low down from a union guy don't quote me cause I was drunk when asking questions to get trg back on track
Union patrollers will not be sent to park city but yeah management is and non union shops are
Vail has refused to follow federal laws when comes to bargaining they straight up don't care stonewall and weaken is their tactic
Lift mechanics are next to join the union program
Keystone is up next working w out a contract they are watching park city and they are eyeing president weekend
The chairlift fall was tragic happened in the worst location possible and it was a hard rescue w some failures all around so yeah these guys play monopoly all season take some turns ski cut shit and deal w the atf so they can throw bombs
Looking forward to changes at the ski area and for workers in general
You are in a Patrol supervisor position at a Vail resort in CO, or the NE.
As a supervisor you manage a pod (a collection of lifts and terrain) and the patrollers that work that area or zone.
You have immediate control of what happens in that area and are responsible to the Patrol Director or Manager for making it run.
You have some input into how the patrol operates but you do not have final say, and very little say in personnel decisions.
You make decent $$$, have a FT YR gig with sick days and Vacay and with the Health Insurance and a 401K, maybe even some Vail stock. Pulling in maybe $75K a year.
The people above the people above you tell you to pack your shit and be prepared to stay somewhere else for 14 days.
Pretty difficult shit to dump on your valued employees.
Well, they are doing it. Strike is on as of this morning with a bunch of snow in the forecast. Fight the power.
Should’ve done it A few days ago. I hope it works for ‘em.
I saw a big banner for the Crested Butte lift maintenance union on the N side of Gunnison yesterday. I wonder if that will be next. https://crestedbuttenews.com/2024/11...act-with-vail/Quote:
Originally Posted by snowaddict91
It would be a wild day to be at PC today. I hope it's a mess honestly.
Attachment 508470
Looks sedate as of 6 mins ago.
I wonder whether there are any patrollers on the hill. Personally, I appreciate their efforts and support their decision 110%. They have to do what they have to do.
Attachment 508471
are they showing-up for Mediation today ?
VR has the "Patrol Support Team" in place, and the report the beginning of the week was 14% of the terrain is open due to lack of snow.
Good luck to the patrollers.
( skiJ )
https://kslnewsradio.com/2167228/par...-counteroffer/
according to KSLnewsradio the Patrol union will not participate in mediation today.
Good luck.
( skiJ )
Vail is bringing in scabs. That ought to enamor them to the old mining town.
$328 for a day pass to ski Park City today.
Patrollers from Ohio have ZERO experience trying to offer a courtesy ride to Debra, the Chase Bank Executive from Manhattan who is too tired and angry to ski down the mountain at the end of the day and is acting like a total cunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by m14fc1
With 14% of their terrain open. What a bargain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud
https://www.parkrecord.com/2024/12/2...oes-on-strike/
updated half an hour ago ( though I don't see really new information. A Patrol officer says they are available daily to negotiate - )
Still think they should've striked promptly after the vote got authorized to strike. Maybe would've had more leverage before all the scabs showed up in the last few days. I'm sure the obvious fact of not getting paid while striking had them wait, but I can't imagine there was actually much faith in a good negotiation between timeframe of the authorization vote and now.
I was wondering about time frame as well, but with so little terrain open (multiple reports showing ~14%), my guess is the patrol wanted to wait until the weekend when things get really busy to make it appear as though the strike is having an impact on operations. I'm curious to see how this plays out...Quote:
Originally Posted by bamboocoreONLY