Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

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08-30-2023, 12:42 PM
adrenalated

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

And nicely picked up on flex pattern. The FR110 is a little more round compared to the cambered skis in the HL colleciton (ie HL105). On the cambered skis, they are a bit stiffer underfoot to increase edge purchase and power, the camber spreads skier weight across the EE, the bevel is hand prepped at the intersection of EE and rocker to ensure the cambered ski drifts really nicely, and then the tail's flex pattern is designed so the tail tracks the tip and carves round in variable snow. Since the reverse skis are bent to radius-matched shape already, and the reverse concentrates skier weight under foot, having a round flex pattern really helps make the ski smooth on hardpack/windboard and track super nicely in variable.

Man, it's like you really thought this through or something :wink:

I had meant to add - the flex pattern feels like it's PERFECT for the shape of the ski. I mean I'm only hand flexing but it just feels like exactly the smooth, round, stiff but not too stiff pattern you'd want from a low reverse camber ski with a ~25m turn radius.
08-30-2023, 12:53 PM
toast2266

The ski fairy has been making its rounds - got mine today.

They look awesome - like everyone else said, very nicely put together.

I was curious to see how they'd compare to the whitedot directors that I had to retire last year. They're definitely similar, but the fr110's have a bit more rocker, and the rocker lines run deeper. The directors have a longer flat spot under foot. Directors are a smidge stiffer through the tip, and a full notch stiffer through the tail. Fr110's are significantly heavier though - about 150g more per ski (2200g vs 2350g). And to the extent that I can speculate about this just from handling them, the fr110's feel like they'll be a good bit more damp.

I really liked the directors in the right conditions, and I'm super psyched to get the fr110's on snow. It seems like they might manage to be just a slashy (lots of rocker), maybe even more poppy (slightly softer tail), and maybe a bit less chattery in firm conditions (more damp).

But for now, 3 more months of bikes.
08-30-2023, 03:36 PM
Pinned

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54-46

Like the Forza 2.0 toe pieces. Wondering how Forza 1.0 (orange/yellow) or Forza 3.0 (Rasta) would go on these. 1st world issues!

It looks like my FR110s are gonna go out any day now, and I think I'll have a fresh set of Forza 3.0s for them. But I think the 1.s would look even better!
08-31-2023, 03:53 AM
bw_wp_hedonism

2 Attachment(s)

Ski fairy came this morning. Skis are gorgeous!

Attachment 468750

Attachment 468751

I can tell just from some fondling that these are going to be buckets o fun.
08-31-2023, 11:13 AM
Whiteroom_Guardian

Ok so possibly beating a dead horse but I couldn't find anything definitive in my bumbling search attempts. Mount point?

Arlid and other's thinking around -8?

I have some OG Devs that I think were a bit too forward and I felt like at high speed in some interesting snow I might get bucked over the front. I have owned many reverse skis starting with Spatulas and several Volkl and I like how my Volkls have what seem to be a pretty directional rearward suggested mount point.
08-31-2023, 11:28 AM
arild

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Ok so possibly beating a dead horse but I couldn't find anything definitive in my bumbling search attempts. Mount point?

Arlid and other's thinking around -8?

I have some OG Devs that I think were a bit too forward and I felt like at high speed in some interesting snow I might get bucked over the front. I have owned many reverse skis starting with Spatulas and several Volkl and I like how my Volkls have what seem to be a pretty directional rearward suggested mount point.

Hey! Rec mount, with waist, reverse camber profile etc in mind, is about -6, but I know Marshal mounted his -8.5, and I did -8. We're pretty regressive about this stuff, though.

If you like being able to drive the skis without pressuring the shit out of your shins, you should be happy at -5 to -6, then further back if you can't stand seeing the toes of your boots when looking down. The skis were also designed with around -6 in mind, so for now, that's my honest recommendation, although I didn't get to ski them last season.

That's probably not super helpful, but i think MO let his protos out to play amongst a few mags end of season, they might have something to say?

Cheers.

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08-31-2023, 11:56 AM
kid-kapow

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Mount point?

Attachment 468774
08-31-2023, 01:29 PM
adrenalated

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian

Ok so possibly beating a dead horse but I couldn't find anything definitive in my bumbling search attempts. Mount point?

Arlid and other's thinking around -8?

I have some OG Devs that I think were a bit too forward and I felt like at high speed in some interesting snow I might get bucked over the front. I have owned many reverse skis starting with Spatulas and several Volkl and I like how my Volkls have what seem to be a pretty directional rearward suggested mount point.

I'm currently planning to go -8cm but that's pretty forward by my tastes on most skis. That said, I bet a bunch of people will get them on snow before I have much to ski locally so I'll probably hold off on putting holes in them until some more feedback floats in.
08-31-2023, 08:41 PM
CaliBrit

I’ll be putting demos on mine and I’ll do a mount point comparison. Starting at -8.
08-31-2023, 08:54 PM
toast2266

For whatever it's worth, I was pretty happy with the whitedot directors I mentioned above at -7. Dimensions are very similar to the fr110's. Directors are a little stiffer, but in the same ballpark.

But I feel like the mount point discussion for a ski like this kinda depends on what your other daily drivers are. Nudge it forward or back depending on how traditional or progressive the other skis in the quiver are.
08-31-2023, 09:46 PM
kc_7777

Really want these. They check all my boxes. Dragging my feet from ordering at the moment. My Pilsner Hojis would directly conflict.

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09-01-2023, 08:50 AM
lucknau

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc_7777

Really want these. They check all my boxes. Dragging my feet from ordering at the moment. My Pilsner Hojis would directly conflict.

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If I recall correctly, there’s a noticeable weight difference between the two. I believe this justifies your decision to go ahead and get a pair.

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09-01-2023, 10:28 AM
Marshal Olson

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc_7777

Really want these. They check all my boxes. Dragging my feet from ordering at the moment. My Pilsner Hojis would directly conflict.

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in all fairness, and as much as i'd like to get you on a pair, the 2013-2014 hoji would be quite similar imo. main difference being that the 180 FR110 (180.5 straight tape) would be a tweener legnth in practice vs the 187 (closer to ~185 straight tape) and 179 (<178 straight tape).

The 186 FR110 is about 150g heavier and 1.5cm longer than the OG 187 hoji based on blister archives

EDIT TO ADD: I do think the FR110 will carve much better too
09-01-2023, 11:17 AM
bw_wp_hedonism

Marshal, quick one: this ski has been compared to the sickle, the hoji, and the devastator (so far). Can you comment on the skis from which you took inspiration? Is the FR110 a love child borne of the 3? Or are there others?

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09-01-2023, 12:24 PM
54-46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Ok, so super fun testing yesterday. Really glad to have gotten it in, and Thanks for OldSchool1080's for the loaner Sickles. Standard caveat that this is just one guy's opinion, with inherent bias.

HIGH LEVEL. The sickle might be one of the most predictable "jack of all trades" skis I have ever been on. Huge sweet spot. Super round and easy to ski slow on a cat track. Loose and drifty off edge mid-speed. Engaged and carvy fast on groomers. In the below comparisons, I am A-Bing two skis, not trying to do indepth reviews, and not going to benchmark them with a lot of other skis, since I found them much more similar than different.

MODEST SPEEDS. The Sickle is a very easy ski to manage with light input. It is dead easy. Just does whatever you want skiing from the ankles. In comparison, the FR110 was still super easy, but may like a little more input, and in exchange can make more turn shapes at slower speed. With the FR110 keep your weight forward as you come across the fall line, and the ski releases into a super nice drift. Move your weight back and it rounds quite well. The Sickle is easier and requires less input, but doesn't have as many tricks up its sleeve IMO & needs a little more input to release and drift turns.

HIGH SPEED / CONSISTENT. Again, the sickle hooks up really well. With speed, its personality feels a little more subdued than the FR110. It is super there and confident, where the FR110 has a little more perkiness to its nature at speed. The FR110 is a little more torsionally rigid overall and a little stiffer underfoot, so I would say they hold an edge similarly, but a little differently. The Sickle grips a long EE (182 Sickle has +10cm EE vs. 186 FR110) and is quite round of a flex pattern, where the FR110 has more taper, more rocker, so looser at shallow edge angles, but tracks as cleanly for me once I was up on edge at relatively higher edge angles. At medium-fast speeds where the FR110 was nice and locked in, the Sickle was starting to come unglued from the snow.

SOFT SNOW / CHOP. Part of this may be due to length, but for me, skiing into hot pow, slush bumps, etc the FR110 thrives, where the sickle was more just competent. The combination of almost no taper, and basically dead flat rocker gave me a few "oh shit" moments in snow that the FR110 didn't flinch at.

FLAT RUNNING / REFROZEN. The FR110 is a notably more bumpy ride when running bases flat on refrozen / hardpack type snow. The Sickle tracks super smooth, where the ends of the FR110 are flapping around a little bit. In this snow, it took a good amount of speed and getting up on edge to approximate the smooth ride that the Sickle provided in this snow condition, no matter what you did to it (low angle turns, drifts, bases flat, etc).

CONCLUSION. The FR110 is a little more loose, a little more biased toward speed, and a little more biased toward soft snow. The Sickle reminds me of a Freeride Carving ski - super clean and round, very versatile, and never nervous. My view is that for folks that like the Sickle, and wish it was better in soft snow and chop or carried speed a little better in broken snow, then I think the FR110 would be awesome for you. For the folks who love the extreme predictability and plantedness of the Sickle on firmer snow, the FR110 may be a bit more lively and loose than what you are looking for (though, again, they are pretty similar compared to pretty much any other skis I have tried).

For folks without Sickle experience, I'd say it reminds me most of a hybrid of an EHP in soft snow and Devestator in bumps, corn, groomers, crud, etc.

Former Sickle owner here - I always felt the Sickle could have been better in soft/cut up and at times got a “hot tub cover” effect. It was also kind of “glassy.” Sometimes got a little hung up in bumps (but that coulda been me.).

Been on a few reverse or flat camber skis like Sickles, ON3P Caylors, Candide 3.0, BC Daemon/Nocta/Corvus. I am mindful of trading power/stability for maneuverability.

(FWIW, I tried but didn’t mesh well with tapered mustache skis like a CRJ.)

The way the FR110 is described by Marshal sounded to me like it was different enough from the Sickle in a similar quiver slot to go for it. (Usually 2-3 ski quiver)

Hope my triangulation is correct. Happy to see comments about the quality. 3 months to season. Enjoy fall!

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09-01-2023, 01:14 PM
lucknau

Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

Just got mine out of the box yesterday. It’s about 150g heavier, straight tape is about 5.5cm longer, reverse camber is continuous and more pronounced, it’s ~5mm narrower tip and tail, and has a ~25m turn radius, vs the ~21m Sickle.

The version of the Hojo I’ve skied (2019 model) was about 5mm narrower, tip and tail, had a 30m turn radius, and weighed 400g less than the FR110. It had a more similar camber profile, though. I didn’t mesh super well with the new Hoji if I wasn’t skiing in deep snow, but I suspect that had more to do with my binding delta at the time. After reading Marshal’s comment above, I assume people are making comparisons with the older Hoji, which I haven’t skied.

I don’t think they’re going to be a super close analog to either of the above, barring the basic expectations I have for a reverse camber ski. I’m excited to get out on the snow and see if I can’t exploit that heft in the maritime chop.

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09-01-2023, 01:21 PM
Marshal Olson

Quote:

Originally Posted by bw_wp_hedonism

Marshal, quick one: this ski has been compared to the sickle, the hoji, and the devastator (so far). Can you comment on the skis from which you took inspiration? Is the FR110 a love child borne of the 3? Or are there others?

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yeah man, so I would say there was an entire class of skis like these that don't really exist much any more. semi fat everyday modern skis built with performance builds and damp rides. add Gotama/One/Shiro, EHP, Sickle, devs, hoji, etc.

I really wanted the skis to:
(1) have the right amount of reverse (matched)to surf and carve
(2) be heavy enough to punch through variable adn resposive enough to be fun and rewarding
(3) fat enough for untracked, skinny enough for most days
(4) stiff enough to ski fast, but round and smooth overall feel

most of these skis in this class have similar traits, so really cherry picking the rocker profiles, amounts of taper, and waist width to best match the construction and snowfeel that i thought would pair up best

I was personally blown away by how much i enjoyed this ski, really ticked all the boxes I was shooting for, and cant wait for every to ski theres!
09-01-2023, 02:29 PM
kc_7777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

in all fairness, and as much as i'd like to get you on a pair, the 2013-2014 hoji would be quite similar imo. main difference being that the 180 FR110 (180.5 straight tape) would be a tweener legnth in practice vs the 187 (closer to ~185 straight tape) and 179 (<178 straight tape).

The 186 FR110 is about 150g heavier and 1.5cm longer than the OG 187 hoji based on blister archives

EDIT TO ADD: I do think the FR110 will carve much better too

I have the Pilsner Hojis released last year in 184cm....182.5cm straight pull and just over 2,000 gm per ski.
09-01-2023, 03:00 PM
N1CK.

Marshal - just to confirm the 186s are all sold out. Correct?
09-01-2023, 03:04 PM
Marshal Olson

Yup, 186 sold out for the season already! I plan to open preorder for next season in mid January. Just fwiw
09-01-2023, 03:07 PM
Marshal Olson

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc_7777

I have the Pilsner Hojis released last year in 184cm....182.5cm straight pull and just over 2,000 gm per ski.

aha! Sorry. On the one hand you have a lighter surfier ski (Hoji) vs a damper ride. But other than a couple 100g and a few meters of turn radius, prolly more similar than different. So I’d only think about the fr110 in the context of replacing the Hoji if you are solving for something specific w/ the skis. Seems like a lot of overlap otherwise. Just my honest .02
09-03-2023, 11:43 AM
kc_7777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

aha! Sorry. On the one hand you have a lighter surfier ski (Hoji) vs a damper ride. But other than a couple 100g and a few meters of turn radius, prolly more similar than different. So I’d only think about the fr110 in the context of replacing the Hoji if you are solving for something specific w/ the skis. Seems like a lot of overlap otherwise. Just my honest .02

Appreciate the honest assessment Marshal! Super cool that you are objective. I agree there would be overlap. I love my surfy Hojis.

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09-04-2023, 03:24 PM
Pinned

1 Attachment(s)

Just got my FR110s at the end of last week - the construction, as everyone else has mentioned, is excellent. In the hands and just looking over them I'd say they're easily the best constructed skis I own. Weights are 2,390g and 2,380g for my pair - impressive tolerance IMO.

For anyone wondering about sizing, attached is an image of the 186 FR110 with a 184 Moment Wildcat overlaid on it. The FR110 is 5cm longer. I know most brands are measuring before pressing the skis so modern twintips end up being shorter. No surprise here, as the lengths were clearly listed. Just sharing for anyone on the fence about what length to order.

That said, the running length on the FR110s is 25mm less than the 184cm Wildcats.

Excited to get out on these skis this season!

Attachment 469042
09-05-2023, 06:19 PM
Shorty_J

If I haven't already said so, I vote for a +10mm version of this ski in a short guy length of 180 to 182cm. Same shape and profile.

My 110cm spot is pretty well covered and this ski, while sexy AF, is more rocker than I want in the 110 width... but at 120mm width it looks a lot like a heavy BMT122 and a bit more true to length.

Yes please. All the yes please.

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09-05-2023, 06:25 PM
byates1

The hellbents he's got are 122.
09-05-2023, 08:07 PM
Shorty_J

I'm not a huge fan of the more centered mount on those... -8 sounds great. -4.6 less so.
09-05-2023, 10:57 PM
mr_pretzel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty_J

I'm not a huge fan of the more centered mount on those... -8 sounds great. -4.6 less so.

You could easily mount those -7

Old hellbents skied good there too
09-06-2023, 10:58 AM
Marshal Olson

Just FWIW, I am planning to mount my HB122 at -7.5
09-06-2023, 08:29 PM
Whiteroom_Guardian

Finally got home from a trip to see these suckas in person. Good lawd on high. Stoke is rising.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fe074b04ba.jpg https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4e956daa45.jpg

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09-07-2023, 09:59 AM
Shorty_J

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal Olson

Just FWIW, I am planning to mount my HB122 at -7.5

Will there be an hb122 thread soon with pics and first thoughts?

My search skills didn't pull up anything.

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09-07-2023, 12:10 PM
lucknau

I was doing the same search yesterday. Instagram keeps taunting me with them.

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09-07-2023, 04:44 PM
arild

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty_J

Will there be an hb122 thread soon with pics and first thoughts?

My search skills didn't pull up anything.

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I think that won't happen until MO gets his samples! This train of progressive regression doesn't move super fast.

It's a fun train, though.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com
09-07-2023, 09:30 PM
Rob Stokes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty_J

If I haven't already said so, I vote for a +10mm version of this ski....... at 120mm width it looks a lot like a heavy BMT122

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I've said it before and I'll say it again, FL123 aka resort layup BMT122 please!

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09-08-2023, 09:15 AM
ASmileyFace

Finally had a chance to pull my FR110s out of the box yesterday. I'll echo the chorus here and say they are the best looking skis I've handled in a long time. The attention to the finish is second to none. Bravo Marshal.

The rocker lines/flex look and feel amazing. I'll try and get a side by side shot with my Sickles sometime in the next few days to add to this thread.
09-08-2023, 10:00 AM
arild

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASmileyFace

Finally had a chance to pull my FR110s out of the box yesterday. I'll echo the chorus here and say they are the best looking skis I've handled in a long time. The attention to the finish is second to none. Bravo Marshal.

The rocker lines/flex look and feel amazing. I'll try and get a side by side shot with my Sickles sometime in the next few days to add to this thread.

Awesome! Can't wait to read your impressions!

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09-13-2023, 07:11 PM
kc_7777

Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

Just ordered the FR110 in 180.5cm straight pull size .... couldn't resist as the FR110 specs/shape are exactly what I like….a heavier, damper, “182cm” Hoji. Whenever I'm not on rockered skis I always want to be so it made sense to me to add another one.

Can't wait!

KC
09-14-2023, 09:32 AM
54-46

Just a few data points:

(TL;DR: happy I got the FR110s)

Length: I put 186 FR110s next to 188.7 Black Crows Daemons, and they’re the same length.

Flex: Hand flexing the 186 FR110s A/B with 184 Faction CT3.0:

FR110s definitely have a rounder flex. The CT3.0s have a couple of transition/hinge spots around the small bit of camber they have.

FR110 tail is both rounder and stouter. The shovel is similar flex stiffness to CT3.0s in front of tip, but shovel flex is rounder as it goes back toward binding area.

Weight/dampness: Overall, the FR110s are going to be damper than the CT3.0s and the heft and construction should lead to better durability.

Summary: Yeah, it’s just mental triangulation on how they might ski before putting them on snow, but the FR110s definitely feel as advertised in hand.

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09-14-2023, 11:18 AM
arild

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc_7777

Just ordered the FR110 in 180.5cm straight pull size .... couldn't resist as the FR110 specs/shape are exactly what I like….a heavier, damper, “182cm” Hoji. Whenever I'm not on rockered skis I always want to be so it made sense to me to add another one.

Can't wait!

KC

Sweet! I know Marshal almost managed to turn you off that one by being the voice of reason, so will be exciting to see how you'll like them compared to the Hojis. [emoji846]

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09-14-2023, 11:34 AM
kc_7777

Soft Snow Gymkhana - The Heritage Lab FR110

Quote:

Originally Posted by arild

Sweet! I know Marshal almost managed to turn you off that one by being the voice of reason, so will be exciting to see how you'll like them compared to the Hojis. [emoji846]

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54-46

Just a few data points:

(TL;DR: happy I got the FR110s)

Length: I put 186 FR110s next to 188.7 Black Crows Daemons, and they’re the same length.

Flex: Hand flexing the 186 FR110s A/B with 184 Faction CT3.0:

FR110s definitely have a rounder flex. The CT3.0s have a couple of transition/hinge spots around the small bit of camber they have.

FR110 tail is both rounder and stouter. The shovel is similar flex stiffness to CT3.0s in front of tip, but shovel flex is rounder as it goes back toward binding area.

Weight/dampness: Overall, the FR110s are going to be damper than the CT3.0s and the heft and construction should lead to better durability.

Summary: Yeah, it’s just mental triangulation on how they might ski before putting them on snow, but the FR110s definitely feel as advertised in hand.

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I've never been known to follow the voice of reason when buying skis. I'm doing this for science.

Re length....180 FR 110 x 188.7 / 186 = 182.6 comparative length for the 180 FR 110. Exactly what I want....like a 182 Hoji or Sickle/Dev baby.

Liking reading “rounder flex, nice finish, heft, stouter, damper, more durable”.....all sounds so good!
09-14-2023, 03:19 PM
mr_pretzel

I’m not really in ski mode yet, but pulled these out of the box the other day and along with the FR105 for going mach looney I’m not really sure I’ll be skiing much else this season, they look fantastic.

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