The carnage
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2d30047654.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4b0279758d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7836c3a95e.jpg
Printable View
Nice. It always looks like they are just throwing paracord into your body haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Dan, you know your shit with training recovery, make sure you dont forget your shit right now because you're tired, in pain and high. Same principles apply so make sure you implement the full gammut. Diet, quality sleep, lowered stress, hydration, supplementation etc, etc, etc all have very meaningful impacts to your recovery rate. And the faster you can get initial healing to occur, the faster you can get to PT which will really kickstart healing as your body is forced to adapt to the stimuli. The inches add up to weeks and months off recovery to say nothing of a more complete long term recovery. So make sure to push nutrients into your body, make sure to push blood through the site of trauma, make sure to rest, and make sure to limit stress as much as possible. For me, and many others, the progress came in spurts, its not always steady so dont get discouraged, keep grinding and trust the process.
Curiously, any thought of using peptides (BPC157, TB500) or AAS to help recovery? The peptide route doesnt have enough hard proof of efficacy for my liking, but when i get my shoulder done im thinking ill be looking at var/deca (obviously they work for hypertrophy, but they also have a number of studies backing their postsurgical efficacy to heal muscle and tendon repairs).
The peptide stuff still feels way too experimental and sketchy to me, especially since most are injected. The FDA banned BPC157 recently. I'll ask if he ever does "augmented" recovery though.
Definitely doing all the other things you mentioned and taking collagen and glycine. Still almost no pain so barely touching the hard stuff. Sleep is tough just because of the sling and I'm naturally a stomach sleeper.
Y'all are really considering AAS for shoulder surgery recovery?!!! WITAF?
Can you clarify AAS? Saw lots of definitions that don't seem to fit.
Numbness: Mine started post op as the anterior surface of my affected arm, from the wrist to almost the elbow. Only the subcutaneous layer was presenting and it varied from full loss of sensation to 90% there. Gradually it has come back and now I have about 70%-100% sensation and the area is from the wrist to about the middle of the humerus. Still have some minor pain in the shoulder if I get lazy with strength training.
IMO, time and PT are what will get you back to 99%.
Anabolic steroidsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
??? Yeah, hard pass.
To each their own. Dummies running crazy cycles and folks who use them long term or to pursue unhealthy hobbies are generally the folks that have issues. For a man in his middle age, with all the kids he'll ever want, under the watchful eye of a doctor running the correct labs, and with a smart cycle with clear intentions for recovery from injury/surgery, the risks are really low. Like, much lower than the surgery itself or with the other meds you get prescribed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
Personally, im very interested in ways to speed up my recovery and strengthen the musculature and tendons/ligaments themselves. Again, to each their own, and i realize the majority of TGR is not the right crowd to discuss this topic.
Suuuuure. That's what's going on. [emoji849]Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
The use of steroids, AAS, as an effective means of recovery post op are mainly non impactful. Not enough significance to make a discernible difference per many studies. You’re a smart guy DTM so as I suspect you will do your due diligence on this subject. Here is one study. Best of luck on a full and strong recovery!
https://josr-online.biomedcentral.co...1749-799X-5-93
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
This metastudy abstract says the below. Again, to each their own on this one (as with most health things that arent totally clearcut). Personally, i am very interested in the benefits, and will likely use them to help recover from my future shoulder surgery. i was wondering if Dan had considered, and what his thoughts were, as he is likely at least passingly familiar with their recreational uses and the potential benefits with surgery. And yes, you would be an abject moron to forgo proper rest/diet/recovery and PT thinking AAS are all you need.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34982051/
Despite the well-documented effects of testosterone and its synthetic derivatives-collectively termed anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs)-on the musculoskeletal system, the therapeutic use of these agents has received limited investigation within the field of orthopaedic surgery. In the last 2 decades, preclinical and clinical research has started to identify promising applications of the short-term use of AASs in the perioperative period. There is evidence to suggest that AASs may improve postoperative recovery after anterior cruciate ligament reconstruction and total joint arthroplasty. In addition, AASs may augment the biological healing environment in specific clinical scenarios including muscle injury, fracture repair, and rotator cuff repair. Current literature fails to present strong evidence for or against the use of AASs in orthopaedics, but there is continuous research on this topic.
Not arguing for or against, that’s a personal decision. I opted not to for my Achilles recovery after much deliberation with several surgeons and doctors. I am for doing everything possible to help facilitate recovery on a personal level.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Curiously, what was your rationale/thought process? concerned about health risks? PITA and cost of sourcing and sticking a full high quality cycle? Not enough evidence of efficacy to bother?Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
the thing i always hear is that unless your doc is knowledgable about AAS and their application in sports, they will almost always just wave off the suggestion and warn against it. Its not taught in med school, and its not part of continuing education (because its illegal and not approved so the studies are limited) so unless they are interested/involved in that niche, most will just wave it off because of lack of knowledge.
Not enough efficacy, cost, procurement. My docs were/are all sports related so have a high level of understanding the influences around them. All of them said it’s my choice but gave me insight to make an informed decision for myself. I chose to attack my recovery with nutrition, supplements, PT, sleep etc. Very happy with my results.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
That paper certainly doesn't make me *less* interested. Better outcomes across the board with little to no reported side effects. You do have to wonder if the results from "multimorbid" patients would translate to fit people, but it's not like this isn't happening with elite athletes. Just the impact wearing a sling all night has on my sleep has probably made my T and HGH take a big hit. There's certainly an argument to made that just correcting that deficit until you get back to sleeping properly is a pretty reasonable thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2FUNKY
I definitely agree with californiagrown that in a focused context and done with the right physician there's basically no risk. The only question seems to be how much upside is there when considered against the cost and hassle. If my doc offered it up saying he's seen it work, it's his standard protocol for people 40+, and the cost was reasonable I probably wouldn't hesitate. But, I'm not about to spend time and energy going doctor shopping to make that happen. That effort is better spent on PT and recovery.
I'm sure you can justify just about anything, but FFS, maybe it's your body just doing it's thing. I've accepted I'm 44 now and won't be charging as hard as I was when I was 34 but I'm having just as much fun, if not more, because I'm not chasing that dragon. I think considering AAS during recovery to maintain muscle is just silly. It'd definitely not a message I would want to be sending to my kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
That is where I was so I decided the hassle wasn’t worth it. Knowing your work ethic from threads here you will recover fine whatever decision you make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
AAS are absolutely not illegal. Scheduled, yes, like any other prescription drug, but not illegal. They haven't been studied enough because of social stigma around PEDs and all of them being long off-patent, legality has nothing to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
I fail to see how utilizing a (hypothetically) safe and efficacious medical treatment to improve recovery after major surgery sets a bad example for kids. Would you feel the same way if, say, stem cells get dialed in and a few injections could safely and reliably cut weeks or months off your recovery time? I don't see how it's any different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan
To be clear, this is all academic as I have no plans to seriously seek out AAS treatment. I do think it's very interesting to discuss, though, and wish it would get rigorously studied so we didn't have to leave so much to speculation. Perhaps we're talking past each other.
I don't think we are talking by each other. The word "procurement" was thrown around multiple times in this conversation. You don't procure drugs from a doctor. You can backpedal and talk about research all you want. I'm not buying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
No one is is talking about doing anything outside of a legit medical setting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Bullshit. Shall I quote the peptide post from a few days ago?
What is your issue? All you have done is yell down from your step stool. Yes, procurement was as issue for me, the doc I would have had to go to was not local, therefore another issue I didn’t want to deal with. It’s not a big bad boogie man word you’re making it out to be. Drop some studies in the doses and setting being discussed showing how bad it is to strengthen your argument. I’m all for looking at all sides, notice the study I dropped was very neutral. Chastising people here is not a good look for you here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
The ones where californiagrown and myself both said categorically that they were too experimental without enough evidence for safety and efficacy and it's not something we'd try? Sure, go ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Touring_Sedan
Moving on, the nerve block is certainly long gone by now and pain level is still 0/10. Feeling great other than boredom and lack of quality sleep. Been peeing tons at night for some reason.
Body removing toxins possibly. Can you not go on walks? Seems some movement would help the boredom and sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Oh I'm definitely walking and being up and about plenty. You still get bored, though it's certainly better than what you went through. The sleep issues are from having to wear a sling all night and not being able to sleep in my preferred position (stomach).
Gotcha. I did mind games and puzzles to keep the brain moving. Happy healing man! You’ll be back to full strength DTM in no time.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
FKNA!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Took the kid hiking around Alta looking at rusty stuff and making off color jokes about broken ankles.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...85b51ead93.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8532315fef.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0eaa708490.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5cef1cabf4.jpg
Alta ski patrol are assholes for putting dynamite in poor Thalls boots and then blowing up Chads afterwards. Glad to see Mackdawg and crew built it back up.
Glad to see youre up and about, and stable. thats huge. I had a few more things fixed in my shoulder 18years ago now, but i was fucking flattened in horrible pain for a week+ and there is absolutely no possible way i could have had my shoulder jostled at all. Just sitting up or slowly moving around the house was excruciating, let alone hiking steep trails with loose footing.... thats making me cringe from memory. Looks like youre still managing to put the hurt on Jr leading that uphill haha! A hike like that is good for the mind, good for the body. Keep that healing momentum going!
I've been reading this thread and was fully prepared for DTM to be in a lot of pain and have to take care of him, A LOT.
That has not been the case.
We're on day six post op and he hasn't said a word about anything being painful.
He was walking laps in the backyard and up and down the stairs the afternoon and evening of surgery.
When he said they were going hiking yesterday I did remind him though that he CANNOT take a fall ;)
What a guy, so brave
It took decades of estrogen replacement therapy to figure out it significantly increased cancer risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
It's widely regarded now that the WHI data was misinterpreted. At most, it caused a statistically significant but clinically meaningless increase in the rate of breast cancer with no corresponding increase in cancer deaths. Meanwhile, untold numbers of women avoid or are denied HRT to treat their menopause symptoms and suffer needlessly.
not to shit on doctors (because they know lots more than myself about the full range of medical issues), but this is what im talking about with my concern that most Doctors, unless they have particular interest in the niche, will just handwave away the mere question about AAS (or any understudied/overabused niche). Its such a difficult call to know whether a doctor is dangerously proselytizing something new, or if they are warning against something because of a lack of, or outdated education on the subject. And its tough to take it on the burden of the education myself because even if i had the time to fully read up on all the studies, i dont have the necessary medical/biology/stats background to full understand their meaning (and god knows ive been wrong before self-diagnosing).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantheman
Anywhoo, are you still pain free for the most part? When do they start you on PT and (i would assume) passive motion?
Wikipedia is a reliable, comprehensive, even-handed source for controversial medical subjects. What it won't do is tell you what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Funny how that worked out huh? Wikipedia is one of the shining examples of the "good" inherent in human beings. We organically managed to compile the worlds knowledge of pretty much any person/place/thing into one place, for free, with remarkable accuracy and it is pretty much all opensourced and self-policed. crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
And being stolen by AI.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
Yeah, feeling pretty great. Per post-op instructions I've been doing some simple passive ROM stuff since Saturday. Post-op appt with the ortho tomorrow, first real PT appt is next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
My GP googled some shit in the middle of my last annual physical.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
"This was one worst shoulders I've ever seen."
I didn't ask how many he's seen, but it's a lot. Passive ROM for now, real PT starts in a month. He got caught in traffic so was behind and in a hurry, so I didn't get to ask about recovery enhancers, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.
Spur of the moment called up "THE shoulder ortho" for my major metro area to get an appt scheduled to see what my options were as im sick of dealing with 50% function of my dominant arm at 36yrs old. He randomly had a cancelation opening for 8am this morning. Perfect. I go in, they take a few more xrays of the shoulder as a follow up to 2022's xrays and MRI which had revealed multiple labrum tears and significant arthritis. Doctor comes in, takes one look at the xrays and says "if you were 20 yrs older this is a perfect case study for full shoulder arthroplasty, but, since youre young lets look at some other options." Perfect, thats exactly what im looking for. His ultimate recommendation, which he seemed very confident about is an "Interpositional arthroplasty using dermal allograft"... basically slap some cadaver tissue around the ball of the humerous to act as short term cartilage (my body would also build tissue onto the cadaver tissue). Recovery would be ~3months and the time to it wearing out would be entirely dependent on use/abuse, but he thinks i could easily get 5-10 years of basically full function back. The Cherry on top is that he thinks he could probably get me in w/in 2 weeks. My wife did just throw a damper on things when she told me she is planning a surprise trip at the end of september and wants me to wait until afterwards... but refuses to tell me what the trip is because it will ruin the surprise. id rather not push recovery into January, so thinking about just rolling the dice and getting it done before that trip.
X-ray Findings: The glenohumeral joint show severe significant chonromalacia. Narrowing of the joint space. Inferior osteophytes. No fractures or dislocations of the glenohumeral joint. AC joint shows mild to moderate arthrosis.