Thanks for the viddy! Besides the visibility, looked like fun snow!
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Thanks for the viddy! Besides the visibility, looked like fun snow!
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Looks like conditions more suited to the r99. I forgot that you were from JerseyQuote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Big Couloir approved.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e9905a5fec.jpg
This is the stoke we want! Thanks WG!
Was able to lap the tram today and really let these bad boys run. Just awesome in alpine chalk. Lively for quick/jump turns in the narrow stuff like the cooler.
Hey all with time on the FL113 so far, I am Curious how people are liking how the ski is tune.
On my end, the snow the past week has gotten pretty grabby and scratchy, so I ended up adding a touch of base edge bevel under foot so the ski with drift a little more cleanly.
Curious if that is a change I should make to subsequent skis, or if it’s more that I am only at about 75% skiing coming from injury… and if folks are happy as-is…
BOOM!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...db2e546ff6.jpg
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Baller!
That decides it, gold on the 187s, forza on the 194s :cool:
Saving my golds for the R87s, turned out my wife likes the forza look better. Just keeping the peace!Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
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Fuck around and find out. The 113s saw some untracked and had to go. What I found out is that there was soft heavier pow with hard avy debris underneath. Gonna have to go back and rebate with a little better skiing, but we got it done.
Attachment 446530
Attachment 446531
Ok so I don't know shit about tuning really. I just wax when needed. Definitely some grabby/dense/soft-over-hard this week here as well and wondering if I should de-tune somewhat as well to get more drift?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Right on!
going to play with some stuff on the skis today and report back.
Yo M... IMHO it's very much worth knowing just a little about detuning to make skis work how they're intended, especially with a long low rocker ski like the 113 that doesn't really have defined contact points. You need to be able to use subtle edge pressure to feather the drift, rather than just let em on/off grab. I'll defer to Marshal of course but my recc would be a progressive detune... dull af at tips/tails, blending to sharp underfoot. Not hard to do w/ file and stones/diamond. Maybe start small and gradually dull em back as you see fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian
Skis that are sharp all the way out make me insane.
Hey man, so I definately agree with this generally (and that is how they are prepped out of the box) -> so the logic of a little more is a great point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norseman
I pose the question as I am at like 75% skiing ability while coming back from an injury, so I love how these behave when pushing hard on them, but when skiing passively (since at 75%, not that I normally would), the ski doesn't drift quite as much as I would like... but I am wondering that has anything to do with the ski, or likely, its just me skiing slower than normal and not putting enough energy into it.
With the long low rocker with near reverse profile underfoot, I don't think I want to detune the tips that much further, since they don't really make contact on windboard at shallow edge angles, and I am feeling a little drag underfoot rather than tips/tails catching. But again, I am still stuck on me skiing like a wuss vs. anything with the ski. Just trying to get out my own echo chamber in my head!!!
I will report back, mainly so that if anyone else is experiencing this with the FL113, they can make a small change or two. And if nobody is... then color me stoked!
Maybe just too sharp still underfoot?
Doubt it's geo related
Family picture!
Sorry, but the lifts are closed this week due to rain (!) , so my first hope to get a feel for the tune is Saturday.
I doubt there are any geometry reasons for unwillingness to slarve, but then I might be biased, just a touch.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...992163e51f.jpg
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I may try just a hair detune underfoot. I'm mostly finding (as with any real charging ski) that I HAVE to be actively weighting the skis and skiing fast. If I'm lazy or a bit tired or try to ski too much with the skis flat I notice just a bit of catchiness. So, not a fault with the ski but with the rider and maybe a bit of detune will give me a little more wiggle room?
Marshal, have you skied this shape with different edge bevels?
I wonder if the 2 deg side bevel is a bit bitey on this shape.
(Ducks back behind the qb armchair)
Good thoughts! Thank you.
I knocked back sharpness a little and reducing the aggressiveness better matched <50 run ski legs right now.
Best cure is more laps!
still very curious if others find the tune a bit aggressive and if I should adjust on the next round.
i think you should send me a pair and I'll ski the shit out of them and tell you exactly how they should be tuned. Just trying to help
Just my opinion, but the tune on my 194 FL113s is perfect. Bite underfoot in firm for all the sketchy entrances to get to the goods, slarvacious in anything remotely soft. Will report back once I get more time on em, but day 1 (soft alpine laps) was fucking sick. Big Mountain Freedom Fighters indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Love the predictable straight shape, and slarvy, long low profile, and the rubber, non-metal lam layup hauls ass (@195# and room to run), I think cause the flex is stiffer, and weight couple hundred grams heavier (2630 g/ski but you wouldn't know it on snow, tons of beef underfoot), than Squads; trad mount helps no doubt.
Marshal, Arild, thanks for bringing your ideas to market, we're all benefitting. Will report back when my legs stop working, and I've got a minute to type something of substance. Cheers!
Y’all built a BComb alpine weapon. Just lapped Saudan and a sluffy Bushrat Shoulder (first time this year); these DGAF. Not like anything else I’ve personally skied. Chewing on some comparables.
Marshal, where is HL based? Chairlift dwellers are inquiring;)
yeah dude! Psyched.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvan
I live in Utah/ski snowbird. Glad you are getting on with yours so far!
I took my 194s out today and loved every minute of them. Just had to open up the speeds a bit and they came to life perfectly
Nice! And thanks, got it right then; shop dudes were pretty pumped on em as well. I snapped some pics b4 dropping into Bushrat Shoulder, but turns out my photo game needs work, so here's one from top of Saudan instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Olson
Attachment 446804
For the collective, mine are 193.7 TL, 2630 grams/ski average, mounted -11 w/ P15s and Kryptons (317 BSL), and as someone who normally bumps mounts toward -10, I really like em at -11. Could go forward a cenny or two from a tip dive perspective, but really like the shovel flex and don't wanna fuck with it (I'm 6'2/195#, ski WB mostly).
Initial thoughts after two soft, wind recycling days: Soft snow slarvy chargers that can hold an edge. Edgehold/slarve like a VWK, construction feels like a Squad/Woodsman 110 blend, but with more top end, flex is a stiffer Squad, shape is...an FL113 (predictable). Feel like a true charger despite the no metal thing. And yah, this could easily be the wider of two skis in a Western resort quiver.
As Marshal said above, need speed to come alive, more than Squads, but not as much as any of my metal lam skis, and it seems like most of the beef is in the middle half of the ski, so they don't feel as heavy as they are. That combined with the flat profile means the first turn is comfy.
Obv not a groomer ski, but they getcha back to the lift in a hurry, and despite the 45mR, the flex allows em to be bent into smaller shapes, to a point, after which its slarve city!
Having reread that ^, I'm making em sound burly, and the 194 is, but the rocker profile also means they're super pivoty/slarvy. Was actually worried when I saw how flat the tail was, but it works super well with the tail flex, and has released super well in 2 and 3D West Coast snow. Dunno. Coming from mostly metal lam chargers, they were intuitive enough for me to drop into Saudan first day, first run on em in shitty vis, and Bushrat Shoulder is just filling in now, and I skied it for the first time this year on day 2 on em, for whatever that's worth.
For my size and traditional style, at WB, they're a winner; a non-metal soft snow ski for metal heads. They'll go as fast as I want, can handle shitty entrances and sketchy steeps (would rather camber if blue, but y'all know that), make any shape you want in pow, but also are more forgiving than say 191 K108s (I think due to straight shape and softer but still supportive flex), meaning I can play more on em than those (which have become the standard for me).
My two cents. Really looking forward to other mag's thoughts on these, cause in the right environment, they're fucking sick (scientific term). Quiver complete; thanks Fellas!
^ word.
Thanks Sylvan! Bummed I missed the last few days up there. Stoked they are working well for you!
Damn, the K108s are that burly huh, looks like I have to get on a pair.
Been a good week. Winds transported allll the snow onto northerly aspects, short lines, good times. Welcome to my K108s but don’t think our BSLs jive. Pumped to hear your thoughts on these as well bud!Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
Once again Sylvan is doing the lord's work! You just need to keep sacrificing yourself for the sake of science and keep filling in all the knowledge gaps. Strong work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvan
At this point a could gleefully fill my entire quiver with HL's lineup. A giant hallelujah for Marshall toiling in service of his fellow maggots!!!
More like... thank you all for caring about all these weird skis and helping make this dream real!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Thomas
And heck yeah. The shreddage is heart-warming to say the least.
Got a pair of 187's mounted at -11cm for pivots that i will take out this weekend. I mentioned this in the r/r thread about the FR132, but once again I drilled these for 3.5mm and had a hell of a time cranking the bindings down all the way. I have mounted dozens of skis so have some frame of reference but i had to two handed crank until my palms were raw to get the bindings down on the deck. I probably should have tried 4.1mm bit or tapped after my first experience but the cores or something in the layup is crazy dense. Definitely no pullouts or spinners ever
good feedback. The skis definitely have the stoutest biding plate available. I ran the threads in and out a couple times when mounting (drill). Good comment to test 4.1 as well this weekend. Cheers! Stoked to hear what you think.Quote:
Originally Posted by chewski
Caveat: super, super biased.
194 FLs, mounted at -11 (86.5cm from tail) with Pivot 18s for 305 bsl Dobermann 130s with Zipfit Corsas inside.
Fresh thoughts:
They ski like Marshal and I wanted them to, except that they pivot a bit easier. You have to make them, though, but I'm suspecting that anyone considering these are used to a bit of muscling.
Chop destroyers, powder missiles, and super, super cool.
More thoughts when I ski them more.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0a7ceb8805.jpg
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Stoked Arild! You still think going -9.5 would work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arild
Gratuitous crotch shot appreciated!
We don't have those luxury lifts you have in Tahoe, man! If I can't remember to ever charge the GoPro, crotch shots are what you're getting.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong
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Honestly, you might want to go for -10, given your preference for a more neutral stance. Don't you ski plugs, though, meaning some forced forward lean, in most cases?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
In pure untracked pow, I, as an unapologetic luddite, would probably want to mount -12, just because my preferred boots have a bit of forward lean to them. My Lupos, which are more upright, might make me more comfy in the few untracked stashes I found, at-11, but I mount for the conditions I expect to use the ski for, not for the unicorn days of all untracked. pretty skied out 50cm moist dump (so, chop, really), -11 was great.
Never commented on the flex in the last post.
Shovels through underfoot, even steven 9-9.5/10 flex, then very gradually softening through the tails, to about 7.5-8/10. Never skied Monsters, but Marshal wanted to emulate their flex pattern, and by Chtulhu, that works like a charm.
So, flex is pretty stiff, but the tail is staggeringly forgiving for the class of skis these belong in. I backslapped on drops a few times, fully expecting to be taken for a ride, but felt more like the skis' tails readjusted rather than springing back or washing out.
After one day, I'm seriously thinking that I'd never need another soft snow ski, but then I have yet to take the c132s out(which would probably be pretty fun in today's conditions).
When skiing with my kids, though, like I did the second half of today, I'm thinking FR110s might be more fun, given their reverse camber and likely higher tolerance for going slow. So, I just ordered them, along with a couple of pairs of FL105s and BC90s.
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Ok so I'm still adapting/learning these skis in different snow depths and densities.
If I were to do anything differently I would maybe move my mount point forward to -10.5 or -10. I think that is in part due to skiing full rocker Volkls too much where the mount is back, but not by much. Yesterday the first part of the day we skied some steep wind recycled north facing pow.
Attachment 447221
The upper open sections had some boot deep higher density stuff where the crystals had broken down. I found the shovels were a bit hard to control. Maybe my RX130s aren't stiff enough or something. I think pushing my mount forward would really help in this type of snow. The stiffness of the shovels will probably allow for less ski in front of the boot. Going over the bars by over flexing the shovel seems nearly impossible at my 170# and 5'7".
In the afternoon on our favorite frontside "play run" with a true mix of steeps/chop/pow/side hits etc I really got into the zone and these skis were an absolute joy. Maybe the most fun I have had on skis in a while. Absolutely charging/jibbing/popping/slashing etc. Got em up to 65 mph.
I think a crude MTB comparison is that these skis are like a Yeti SB150. They just get better and better the faster you go.
I'm gonna keep skiing the shit out of them and decide if I really do need to move from -11.5 up to -10.5 or -10. I think I'm light enough to give it a shot.
If/when a shorter version comes out I may try them too......as well as the FR110 which I think may really complement some more playful/less deliberate skiing in soft snow.
TLDR;
I still love these skis and want more. The non Heritage quiver is going to slowly hit gear swap and be replaced with a full fleet of Heritage sticks.
#metoo. :Fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian
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Spent the week on mine (194 FL113s, 6'2/195#, @WB); a few additional thoughts. Pretty big sweet spot on em (forward or centered). Also, couldn't find the top end, and I tried. Love the layup; my back is older than I am, and normally after 5 days in a row I'm pretty mangled; other than being sore from a self inflicted crash (dang sluff), I feel like a spring chicken this morning. Honestly, for my weight, they are one of the more plush skis I've been on. Tail reminds me of a slightly stiffer, flatter, 192 R11; ie. not a 2x4, and what I hoped the OG R11 tail would be. Skied a couple storm days, and feeling down steeps wasn't an issue, and it'll smear with some effort, but strong enough to hold you up if you get back. The slarve/edgehold hits a sweet spot for me; every time I head to Feather Trees from Sylvan/Saudan/False Face, and transition from the soft N or W facing stuff, to the S facing wind board, it catches me by surprise (slow learner); no issues on these. They handle slow speed tech (due to tail) better than they should for how hard you can push em (due to shovel); considering the specs, surprisingly quick edge to edge, and don't feel like I need to be 'on' all the time. Here's a pic from earlier this week; skied this line a bunch on em, but full disclosure, I did get sluffed out the bottom on this one. These'll replace my Confessions, and will likely take some days from K108s also.
Attachment 447260
Anyone have strong mount point opinions for the 187 C113s?
About to throw ATKs FR14s on them and was just going to split the difference of recommended (-10 to -11) and mount at 10.5. Boot is a 26.5 ZGTP.
But if a strong preference has emerged - I’m all ears.
@themutt - I’d say split the difference at -10.5 and call it a day!
@sylvan - heck yeah! Thanks for the notes.