^you added an extra zero, it takes .005"
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^you added an extra zero, it takes .005"
Alright. That's scary.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
what if I say that jetforce backpacks are also absolutely not reliable... and I have a video proof and I was also told to fuck off by bd/pieps CS. I guess I should take that hype train and post video/make thread
Jax - thanks for the candour. I've worked with Jon. He's thorough and a professional. He's doing his job well but what a mess BD has caused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
The stock (CLAR) did weird things today
Thanks for the insight Jax. For any future products liability suit, your info could be pretty big.
I have a 4 year old beacon, don't recall doing the extended thing, so no idea what they will offer. Really irritated by how they are going about this. I played around with mine, and like ISBD said, when placed screen out and a little (not much) pressure applied to the harness buckle, the slider could move.
^^ before I worked with BD, the 'joke' amongst industry peeps was they bench test plenty...on consumer products. The Skyhoy comes to mind, loooong before the 02 fiasco... :D
BD managed to reincarnate themselves once before, I hope this gets the ball rolling for a second coming of sorts.
And to further clarify, at that time as a rep, BD was the distributor for Pieps, but the buck stopped there. That DSP Sport/Pro design is all on Pieps. Unfortunately, the way the corporate cookie crumbled, now it's up to BD to rectify the situation.
What a mess indeed...
01 fiasco? The 4 screw version ripping out, or are you referring to something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
Good info in your posts, thanks for that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
02, my bad. Edited to correct model of tele binding. I can't believe that was 17 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
What was the 02 issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3PinGrin
Here: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...0030127-O2.pdf
And then more here: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...inspection.pdf
Here is a full list of BD recalls going back to 2000, all readily available on BD's website: https://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/recalls.html
I had forgotten all about the end cap issue. Never skied their bindings though, was always a Voile fan for 75mm stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Quote:
Thank you for your inquiry regarding the warranty on your Pieps beacon. We have undertaken an extensive investigation of all Pieps beacon models, which includes subjecting them to our own analysis, testing by an independent third-party, and evaluating them against the beacon market at large. Through this testing, we have concluded that Pieps beacons perform above industry standards, unless the beacon is compromised. Our rigorous testing is a reflection of our commitment to your safety and to ensuring that our customers feel confident in the field.
For users of the DSP Sport and DSP Pro beacons, we will undertake a thorough inspection of your beacon and, regardless of what we conclude, offer you the chance to upgrade your beacon through our tiered trade-in program. Users with Beacons purchased over two years ago are eligible to buy-up to another beacon model at the below rates:
Pieps Powder BT: $100.00 USD
Pieps Micro BT or Micro Sensor: $125.00 USD
Pieps Pro BT: $150.00 USD
Attached to this email is a pre-paid shipping label for you to send in your beacon for inspection and upgrade. Please clearly label the outside of the return package with RA XXXXXX. Once we receive your beacon, we will contact you regarding a replacement. If you have any questions in the meantime, please call our product specialists directly at 800-775-5552. Canadian customers will receive a label in a separate email directly from Fedex. Please remember to check your spam folders.
For more than 45 years, Pieps has been the worldwide technology leader in avalanche transceivers. Our mission is to bring you state-of-the-art equipment and peace of mind. Thank you for taking us with you on your backcountry adventures and for your continued support.
Here is the deal for those who are out of warranty (>2 years)...
^^^i'm guessing this is where it's headed for meQuote:
Originally Posted by beeeom
i got a response from dsp@pieps.com to submit for warranty claim
didnt BD do some kind of corporate love fest/ BC ski week at a hut in BC with some of their own gear which promptly failed on them in a rescue ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax
they did get the guy out
I wonder where this puts people with the extended warranty that is over 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by beeeom
in warranty is in warrantyQuote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
shouldn't matter on time
Get the micro.
Do you own that model? Why it over the other BD options besides size? Need to dive into reviews but since you mentioned that model thought I would ask. I think we are actually going to mail in for a new model upgrade since I'm sure I can find an older burial practice beacon for cheap at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
+2 lightweight, easy to use, in pocket send, out of pocket receiveQuote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
is the auto revert annoying if you are part of say the dig team in a multiple burial scenario?Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO
or am i not understanding it properly?
[ie, you can't turn it off...just cancel the revert every min (or whatever the time)]
Not sure, I just practice with mine pre-season and change the battery. I have never pulled mine out of my pocket after leaving the TH. I think the concern is getting caught in a secondary slide while searching. In practice, mine auto-reverts to send when I put it back in my pocket. I have not done my pre-season practice session for this season yet, but IIRC, it takes about 5 seconds to cycle back to send. Mine is the early non-BT model Micro.
Decreased range... not that it matters if the other option isn't sending.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO
I purchased in Feb 2018 so slightly out of warranty, but registered for the 5 years:
"Thank you for your inquiry regarding the warranty on your Pieps beacon. We have undertaken an extensive investigation of all Pieps beacon models, which includes subjecting them to our own analysis, testing by an independent third-party, and evaluating them against the beacon market at large. Through this testing, we have concluded that Pieps beacons perform above industry standards, unless the beacon is compromised. Our rigorous testing is a reflection of our commitment to your safety and to ensuring that our customers feel confident in the field.
For users of the DSP Sport and DSP Pro beacons, we will undertake a thorough inspection of your beacon and, regardless of what we conclude, we will send you a free replacement from our current beacon family. Attached to this email is a pre-paid shipping label for you to send in your beacon for inspection and upgrade. Please clearly label the outside of the return package with RA XXXXXX. Once we receive your beacon, we will contact you regarding a replacement. If you have any questions in the meantime, please call our product specialists directly at 800-775-5552. Canadian customers will receive an additional form for customs titled "Pieps Beacon Return Invoice" which they will need to fill out the highlighted fields and attach to the exterior of their returning package. This form is for customs, and our package will not be delivered without it.
For more than 45 years, Pieps has been the worldwide technology leader in avalanche transceivers. Our mission is to bring you state-of-the-art equipment and peace of mind. Thank you for taking us with you on your backcountry adventures and for your continued support."
Again a slightly different worded response.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
Adventure Journal picked up the story... unless I already missed the link posted: https://www.adventure-journal.com/20...-malfunctions/
if you bought yours < 5 years ago. you can still sign up on the pieps site for the extended warranty. it'll still expire 5 years from purchase date, but for those of you who are between 2-5 years.
I tried but I don't have the product registration card anymore. Is it somewhere on the beacon?Quote:
Originally Posted by kalisto
Sent from my F1 using Tapatalk
Inside the battery cover, top set of 13 numbers and 1 letter. At least on mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by durangobrad
ETA: that ^ was for my DSP Pro. My Sport is just 14 numbers, no letters
Not an owner just an interested engineer, but this definitely has me thinking twice about BD now. To me the sketchiest part of the response is their repeated mention of having tested other companies' products as part of their investigation. That's something you might do before designing a competing product. At this point it's just marketing FUD and has no bearing on whether their own product has a problem. Advertising that fact looks like a significant dysfunction--like they're letting sales or marketing run the response. Jax's posts seem to add a layer. (I'm not trying to convince anyone else, just saying that's how the optics come off to me--I'd love to be wrong.)
As an engineer, that interlock is objectively a design compromise: the "living hinge" approach of flexing the plastic is a probable cost-saver that definitely reduces reliability. A beam like that has to be designed with a limited flex so it doesn't break (apparently it still breaks) which means the tolerances on the interlock itself have to be very small. So a slight amount of wear, variation in the parts, even temperature change (or any combination) might allow a malfunction. The video showing .005" between locked and unlocked is imperfect, but probably close enough (I agree with Abraham's comment in the other thread but expect the effect to be minimal--0.010" travel would still be disturbingly small). Compare this design with one that has, say, 0.1" of travel on the release button and the difference in reliability is undeniable.
There could (I would say should) be an industry standard that requires a mechanical interlock which (a) travels at least 2 mm (less is difficult to perceive as a user, which introduces issues with human factors) and does not release until at least 1 mm into the travel (maybe 1.5, I'm just throwing out a guess). And (b) contains a separate detent mechanism so that unlocking the interlock does not release the detent and (c) the detent must provide adequate force to re-center the sliding switch and re-latch the interlock if left in an intermediate position just beyond the edge of the interlock's range.
Sorry if that reads like engineer-speak, I'm assuming if you're still reading the half-baked version would be worse.
Lack of (b) and (c) appears to be the cause of the issue in ISBD's video: if the interlock can be pressed and the slightest movement of the sliding switch will hold it down, then the switch can stick in that "teased" position where it's unlocked even though it hasn't moved much yet. Then it's literally 50/50 as to whether the next force applied to the slider moves it out of Send. A seperate detent mechanism which applies enough return force to re-center the slider would prevent that by re-latching the interlock after any given bump on his ribs.
Sounds like the industry has no such standards for themselves right now. But I just tried the equivalent move on my Pulse. Its separate detent force is (just) enough to ensure that the sliding switch returns to a locked position if it is teased just past the edge of the locked position in either direction. I'd like the detent to re-center from a further out position, but a detent mechanism can't completely eliminate the possibility of teasing. At least making the switch unstable at the edge of the locked range prevents an inadvertent unlock from becoming permanent. The switch design seems to have gotten significant attention in the Barryvox design.
Sorta related... Why dont the pieps beacons (or all for that matter) make a sound when they're turned off or are switched to receive? They make a sound when the turn on. And would be a nice extra safety feature to hear a noise if basically switched away from send. My sat device makes a "descending" noise when powered off
They may do that (I don't know, I've never used Pieps) but if they don't, that is a feature they should add. But that still doesn't fix the problem at hand. They need to come up with a design without an inherent potential for switching off.Quote:
Originally Posted by m104da
They do not make sounds when turned off.
Anyone tried this?Quote:
Originally Posted by kalisto
The Pieps website says you should register it within 3 months of purchase.
https://my.pieps.com/Content/en/PortalFAQ.pdf
Update: Tried it myself just now and it works for beacons between 2 and 5 years old.
Thoughts on Micro BT Button vs Micro BT Sensor - which one to get?
Seemingly doesn't matter if you have the 5 year extended warranty. anything more than 2 years is $$.
A guy on Facebook reported that his beacon was 4 years old and was offered free replacement. I don't think they've been consistent.
All of this has made me wonder if I should replace my OG DSP. You know, the grey slider one. It does not seem at all susceptible to the problems discussed here, but it is pretty old. My research has indicated that the new ones don't have any fundamentally better function, though, so I wonder if there is anything to be gained. It works perfectly well for search every time I practice, and I've never noticed it randomly turn off.
What say ye?
That’s the one I mailed back in the Spring and they replaced it for free. Mine was still under warranty.Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
For that model, i asked them to give me a significant discount on a new comparably featured one. I don’t expect a replacement on that model given its ageQuote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
(At the time, I did not know of the pricing listed above in the thread. And that pricing is reasonable to me)
I think that switch is no better