Attitudes of the uber-rich

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Seems like you’re admitting that Prop 13 does suck balls in some respects.

Anyway, I think I’ve said all I want to say on this.

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It’s been amended before, no?

And no, I’m not saying it sucks. I wish we had something similar in WA. My biggest concern living where I do is being able to pay my property tax as I approach retirement.

There’s little relief for seniors, you can get an exemption from voter approved levies in your assessment but you have to make less than 48k a year. Deferment is just kicking the can down the road, it would eat all my equity by the time I die or sell to move into a senior living apartment and then I wouldn’t be able to afford that.


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No prop 13 here. I’ve lived in my house just over 20 years. Just got my assessment on new tax rate. The annual tax is 1120% of the first year I owned my house. I can’t imagine it will increase another 1120% in the next 20 years but if it does, my monthly property tax bill will be more than my social security check.

My house is the exact type of house old people would want to downsize to-small, single story, close to medical services. Young people have future earning potential. Old people on fix income will not be able to afford the houses they “own” and pay for.

For most people, their biggest asset is their home. Deferring the tax until the sale may mean that moving into assisted living wouldn’t be possible for many. Talk about aging with grace and dying with dignity.

I would be more inclined to adopt prop 13 style laws than get rid of them.

I guess young people deserve to have their starter homes in nice places…

DeJong bringing receipts. All this concern about old fucks continuing to live their best lives and nothing for young fucks trying to put a permanent roof over their heads.

It’s because we’re getting older. You want to post like Dejong, head over to Newschoolers.

Perspective replaced by bad breath.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

It’s because we’re getting older. You want to post like Dejong, head over to Newschoolers.

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Aren't the Newschoolers kids all in their late 30s by now?

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

DeJong bringing receipts. All this concern about old fucks continuing to live their best lives and nothing for young fucks trying to put a permanent roof over their heads.

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Young people can put a roof over their head just like I did. It was expensive and I had to work full time and my expectations weren’t luxury and desirable area until I got older and made more money and learned how to budget.

I have kids in their 20s and they’re about in the same spot that I was in, renting and trying to figure out this adult thing. From my observation, the young people seem to be making it work, or not. Life is hard and you have to work at it.


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Is it really young people driving price appreciation? Seems like a lot of young people are struggling to be able to buy homes.

At the same time you have people buying second (or more) homes, people buying homes to use as short term rentals, house flippers driving up value, off shore investors buying homes with cash and large institutional investors buying up entire portfolios of condos and single family homes.

All that has got to be having a big impact on prices in many markets.

I live in Nevada, which has a 3% cap on annual real property tax increase for your primary residence. It doesn't transfer with you -- so, for example, if you sell your existing house and move to another, you pay the actual assessment for that first year in the new place, and then the new place is subject to that 3% cap on increases.

We've lived in the same house since 2012. I just got my annual tax bill, and my total annual tax is $8498, with an abatement amount of $2195, so a net annual tax of $6305. So, since 2012, Nevada's 3% cap saves a decent amount year over year -- IIRC, when we moved in, annual taxes were around $5000 per year.

Oh, look. It's the boots straps / stop buying lattes trope. Old fucks could work until they die to stay out and pay taxes but young fucks with perspective know that is not reasonable. Yer breaf stank.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Young people can put a roof over their head just like I did. It was expensive and I had to work full time and my expectations weren’t luxury and desirable area until I got older and made more money and learned how to budget.

I have kids in their 20s and they’re about in the same spot that I was in, renting and trying to figure out this adult thing. From my observation, the young people seem to be making it work, or not. Life is hard and you have to work at it.


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Yeah, my house is worth double what I paid for it 17 years ago (2007, so also pre-crash peak, not a post-crash fire sale), but entry level wages in my field have also doubled. I'll never say that it's easy because nothing about life is easy, but it's doable.

Fun how the the Attitudes of the Uber Rich thread started with the true 1% Yellowstoners and Jacksonites but has evolved to attitudes of those with more than you. "Uber rich" all depends on where you're sitting when you're thinking about it.

I know a guy named Rich and he always has a great attitude.

But is he just average guy Rich or Uber Rich?

Spending retirement complaining about higher property taxes in your 2MM property while there is a housing crisis is peak tone-deaf regardless of your income bracket.

Phew. I'm 20 years from retirement (hopefully) and my house is worth nowhere near $2m.

My buddy Rich can be Uber Rich depending on how much he drinks. In a good way.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Oh, look. It's the boots straps / stop buying lattes trope. Old fucks could work until they die to stay out and pay taxes but young fucks with perspective know that is not reasonable. Yer breaf stank.

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Could you make a cogent argument please.

I’m not that guy, I’ve never made all that much money but I’ve tried to make good conservative financial decisions. My daily driver is 27 years old. I’m smack in the middle for my area, right at median household income. I just want to stay in my house and not lose all its equity by paying deferment in retirement.

Things looked bleak when I graduated from high school too, I’m 56.

When I look around I see young families buying houses and nice material goods, it’s not as bleak as the media and politicians make it out to be. It’s more angst than anything.


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And where does bitching about someone else's property taxes fit in?

A real life 40 year old boomer.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Fun how the the Attitudes of the Uber Rich thread started with the true 1% Yellowstoners and Jacksonites but has evolved to attitudes of those with more than you. "Uber rich" all depends on where you're sitting when you're thinking about it.

I know a guy named Rich and he always has a great attitude.

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I think Dejong qualifies as wealthy if he’s in the top 10% of household incomes in CA.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I think Dejong qualifies as wealthy if he’s in the top 10% of household incomes in CA.


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I stated pretty clearly than I’m between 10% and 15%. That puts me outside the top 10% for those who aren’t great at math.

Two income household as well. Only a little over half are.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

A real life 40 year old boomer.

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Jeeze, glad I only pointed out what mine were.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

DeJong bringing receipts. All this concern about old fucks continuing to live their best lives and nothing for young fucks trying to put a permanent roof over their heads.

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Oh bullshit. In the first place there's been plenty of mention of that, but the subject under discussion was rapidly rising property tax rates. Affordability of a first home is a worthy, but separate discussion. And we can certainly talk about both. The issue of property taxes in places like CA is relatively easy to fix. The affordability and availability of housing much less so. On the coasts especially, the cost of housing has gone up much faster than income. People who move to areas with high housing costs have to be willing to give up other things for the benefits of living there. But people who grew up in those areas should be able to afford to stay if they choose to do so.

Our viewpoints in this discussion seem to be skewed by the fact that most of us are affluent enough to ski and many of us live in places where we can do that. The people most affected by the property tax problem are not us. They are less affluent folks living in small houses in modest neighborhoods in cities--ie most people.

Yeah, the 29 year old daughter of my fixed income neighbors couldn't afford to fix up their house (in disrepair) to sell it for enough to pay the back taxes and penalties on it when they died to even inherit anything. It was condemned. Someone (affluent) in the neighbor paid for the repairs. The 29 year old had enough to pay the rich neighbor back, pay the taxes, and pay a couple years rent at her apartment with what was leftover. That's where I live. Modest urban neighborhood that is becoming gentrified, expensive, and pricing people out. Does have mediocre skiing nearby.

Gentrification has been happening in prime locations for generations. Just doesn’t make the conversation until it’s a white person problem. Doesn’t matter the mechanism - taxes, property value, or corrupt HOA’s.

For sure though, the tax increases posted here are jaw-dropping. My house has doubled in market value in the 16yrs I’ve lived in it, but my property taxes have increased <10%. We have property tax deferral systems here as well - my FIL hasn’t paid a dime for the past 20yrs. In a place like Victoria with a relatively old population, I don’t know how the city has managed tax revenue from all those deferrals.

one of the “benefits“ of living in teh upstates, property values haven’t risen at all. means my taxes have been relatively stable and low for the last 25 years.



fact.

There's no deferral here. The city liened the house for back taxes and penalties for a veteran who lived there for over 30 years.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

I stated pretty clearly than I’m between 10% and 15%. That puts me outside the top 10% for those who aren’t great at math.

Two income household as well. Only a little over half are.

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The top 15% of households is still wealthy moron. The math is the same.

What’s your occupation?




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how wealthy?

Uber upper middle class is my bet. Maybe uber lower upper class. So grey these days.

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Originally Posted by Mazderati

Spending retirement complaining about higher property taxes in your 2MM property while there is a housing crisis is peak tone-deaf regardless of your income bracket.

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I’m not retired yet and I don’t have a pension just a 403b that I funded. My income in retirement will be less than 48k a year and my home is only worth about 400k up from 165k at purchase 20 years ago. I’m not some rich boomer.

How old are you and how much money do you make if you’re making assumptions about people here? Come on, don’t be shy.


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Originally Posted by Djongo Unchained

Annual tax bill where I live for past few years:

2024 - 22,000
2023 - 20k
2022 - 16k
2021 - 10k
2020 - 6900
2019 - 7200
2018 - 3300
2017 - 4100
2016 - 4000
2015 - 3700
2014 - 3300
2013 - 2750

How ya like them apples?

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Holy fucking shit. What exactly is the town of Jackson doing with that money?

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Buying bollards to fuck with traffic and embolden the otherwise dingbat center of the universe bicyclists we have these days.
Expanding all of the recreational opportunities at the rec center. We need an indoor climbing wall cuz there's no good climbing around here.
Buying overpriced properties and losing a fuckton on their overpriced developments.
Plowing snow from November 1 thru April 15th, even when it only snows 10 days in town all winter.
And on and on...

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Originally Posted by Toadman

Congratulations?

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Alas, no. Not my bill.

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Originally Posted by m2711c

how wealthy?

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Likely twice or more the median household income in CA if he’s between 10-15%.

I really don’t care for these limousine liberals


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Originally Posted by old goat

Oh bullshit. In the first place there's been plenty of mention of that, but the subject under discussion was rapidly rising property tax rates. Affordability of a first home is a worthy, but separate discussion.

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Objectively, without a doubt, the two are absolutely related. It is impossible to favor one group over another and not create a distortionary effect. In the case of Prop 13, house prices are around 15 percent higher and causes around a 5 percent decrease in moving rates.

The groups who benefit are existing homeowners. The groups who don't benefit are renters and younger individuals. If Prop 13 were repealed the net overall welfare benefit would make Californians, as a whole, around 2 percent richer.

I don't have any dog in this fight so if folks want to prioritize existing homeowners I don't care, but doing so is not cost free. There's no way to repeal the laws of supply and demand. Even though support for elimination of Prop 13 is quite low, property tax rates could still be lowered via an overall reduction in rates and allowing the housing supply to increase. Which is even less popular because it would also lower existing housing prices.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Likely twice or more the median household income in CA if he’s between 10-15%.

I really don’t care for these limousine liberals


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I’m a mechanical engineer in manufacturing, nonsupervisory position.

I make about half what a primary care doctor does.

My wife is also a professional, with a Ph.D. She makes a bit less than me.

I’d consider myself upper-middle class, but wouldn’t be offended if you were to call me upper class.

I don’t consider a working professional making half that of a basic doctor to be ‘wealthy’, but there’s no real definition for it, right?

I’m shocked that young people have to rent. Shouldn’t they be able to live wherever they want? Maybe I should sell my house and buy a bigger more expensive one in a “nicer” area so some young folks have a chance in life.




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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

I’m a mechanical engineer in manufacturing, nonsupervisory position.

I make about half what a primary care doctor does.

My wife is also a professional, with a Ph.D. She makes a bit less than me.

I’d consider myself upper-middle class, but wouldn’t be offended if you were to call me upper class.

I don’t consider a working professional making half that of a basic doctor to be ‘wealthy’, but there’s no real definition for it, right?

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That’s the thing, nobody that’s comfortable and well off thinks that they’re wealthy. I’ve worked with physicians my entire adult life, none of them consider themselves wealthy.

You have what I assume is a nice house in Truckee CA, you’re in the top 10-15% of households for CA, you’re wealthy.
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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I’m shocked that young people have to rent. Shouldn’t they be able to live wherever they want? Maybe I should sell my house and buy a bigger more expensive one in a “nicer” area so some young folks have a chance in life.

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Works both ways. Under the Prop 13 regime, an empty nest couple who wants to downsize is also disincentived from moving.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

That’s the thing, nobody that’s comfortable and well off thinks that they’re wealthy. I’ve worked with physicians my entire adult life, none of them consider themselves wealthy.

You have what I assume is a nice house in Truckee CA, you’re in the top 10-15% of households for CA, you’re wealthy.
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I live in a 2000 square foot house. It was new, not extravagant, but expensive because it’s Truckee. Wouldn’t have been able to afford it except that we bought our first house at the bottom of the real estate crash so we made some money selling it.

I’m very aware that everyone thinks they’re middle class, including 1%ers.

Not that anybody asked, but I'm in a class 20 year old me never thought I would be in.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Not that anybody asked, but I'm in a class 20 year old me never thought I would be in.

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20 year old me could only buy cashews like once a year, now I can buy them whenever I want. I think that makes me at least upper middle class