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Seems as if they reversed the names for 2020/21:
- Rear brake versions are C-Raider 12 and Freeraider 14.
- Front brake version is now called the Front-12 (assume there's a Front-14 as well).
The concept of a brake being active in tour mode has its appeal (especially when doing kick turns).
... Thom
Nope. The front brake'd 14 has gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Thom, I've email you a pdf of their 20/21 catalogue to your work email address.
I'll be stocking ATK for 20/21. If anyone wants their 20/21 catalogue just PM me your email address.
Skip to 4:20. Want.
Davide does great demos and explains the products well.
Yeah, that's pretty slick.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
It's been rumored that Black Diamond is going to have one of the 300-ish gram bindings in their line for this coming season. Anybody know more? Which particular ATK model it'll be?
Thanks Jon. No loss for me (regarding 14 RV - I run at about 8).Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
I assume it's OK with me posting the catalog on my server and linking to to in the first post in this thread?
That C-Raider 12 is really tempting. It would give me an excuse to get another pair of skis ;-)
... Thom
Yeah. Super slick.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
No problem bud.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Hi All,Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
I added the download link in the first post (for the 2020/21 catalog). It's downloadable from @Spyderjon's site.
Download the catalog from here: https://www.thepisteoffice.com/image...%20web%202.pdf, and buy from The Piste Office (@Spyderjon's site): https://www.thepisteoffice.com/
I'll try to figure out how to reference the new models in the spreadsheet in the first post without killing the historical changes (the re-assignment of the Raider Freeraider names to the heel brake version and renaming of the front toe version from Raider 12 to Front 12).
Here's my take after a quick look at the catalog:
2020/21 Model Year Notes:
- The Raider/Freeraider name now refers to the heel brake version of the line which now has 3 bindings:
Raider-12, C-Raider-12 (carbon base plate on toe), and Freeraider-14
- The old Raider 12 (front brake) has been renamed the "Front 12" and there is no longer a 14 RV version with a brake at the toe.
- The Haute Route gets a new buddy in the speed touring category - "The Release 10" @240g (key features are elastic travel at the heel and some carbon composite)
... Thom
I find these bindings really appealing on multiple levels, but there's still something that seems wrong about putting your life in the hands of something designed and built by an Italian. What has that country ever produced that hasn't been delicate, finicky and unreliable?
Stick to the food, wine, shoes and cars that break down every 12 miles; leave the engineering and metallurgy to the Germans.
Apologies to any dagos I offended.
That'll be Marker then :biggrin::biggrin:Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
That C - Raider 12 looks pretty sweet. Any idea how much they weigh without the brakes? Is it me or does the stack height of the toe piece look pretty high?
Dude. WTF.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
Add ATK bindings to your food wine and shoes list.
they’re not on the radar of many folks here but the Kreuzspitze’s are pretty great bindings too, if you need that german touch. ATKs have not disappointed for me though. the only binding Ive bought an extra pair of just to have.
One of the guys at skimo told me that they had a few returns of the Kreuzspitze GT heel this year (the top plate). Hard to say if he was trying to steer me toward a higher $$$ Hagan or not. I suspect these Kreuzspitze incidents were outliers in a small sample size.Quote:
Originally Posted by mall walker
In any case, the machining of ATKs and Plums along with their choice of 7000-series Alu (aircraft grade) is confidence inspiring. Both companies develop incrementally and conservatively ... something that really appeals to me. I'd hazard a guess that Kreuzspitze falls into this category as well.
I love Fritschi too, although I suspect they took a bit of a wrong turn with the Xenic. Hopefully for them (and us), the toe piece lever issues are resolved.
... Thom
Someone posted a link to a photo on the Moment Skis site of the "new" BD Helio 350 in the 300g binder thread (https://www.momentskis.com/products/...mond-helio-350).
The topic of toepieces arose. It appears as if they've specified either the Crest 10 or the RT 10 toepiece for this binder (monlink design), in combination with the Raider 12 heel (heel mounted brakes with 5 riser positions).
The website model names lag the 2020/21 catalog that @Spyderjon posted above in post #162. The website has the old model names, and C-Raider 12 is not listed.
ATK's back and forth naming is confusing to say the least, but the following is what the the 2020/21 catalog names the models. I'll update post #1 shortly with the revised names:
- Heel mounted brakes: C-Raider 12, Raider 12 & Freeraider 14
- Toe mounted brakes: Front 12 (RV 14 version discontinued)
Anyhoo, the Raider 12 toe has a snow clearing toepiece instead of the monolink toe which is found in the Crest, RT, and several other models.
The picture in the Moment Skis link (above) shows a monolink toe (so it's not the Raider 12 toe), but doesn't reveal further detail, so we can't tell.
The key difference between the Crest 10 toe and the RT 10 toe is the RT 10's "Uphill Hardness Variator" feature (a complicated name for a simple device) an adjustable clamping force for the toe when in touring mode. The intent is to allow you to compensate for tech inserts that are wearing in.
I shot a photo of my RT 10 toe to show the adjustable cam which engages with the toe lever to lock into uphill mode. No ... it has zero effect on retention in downhill mode (I knew you'd ask :cool:).
https://galibierdesign.com/images/ot...UHV_Detail.jpg
... Thom
Apologies if this is answered in the video, but do you have to remove your boot from the binding to rip skins?
Standard tech. binding architecture in this respect. Think Dynafit Speed Superlite, etc. Stomp into downhill mode, do the yoga moves and rip 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafjell
... Thom
The only way to rip skins is skis on, jong
Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by FullStop
Except with old G3 skin glue which refuses to release from the ski. The damn shit requires two strong men to free it up from the base. Ask me how I know :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by FullStop
Gotta replace that pair of skins, or alternatively reglue them. It's maddening.
... Thom
Store them unstuck all summer in a dusty workshop, does the trick.Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
With my luck, they'll fail completely ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by FullStop
Can anyone compare release on the Raider 12 vs 14? I’ve spent a lot of days on the 14s and trust them to only come off when they should. I’d go for 14s again, but they’re tough to find a deal on in the US. Are the 12s noticeably easier to release, especially the toes?
You must be psychic! I'm a retailer in the UK and I'll be stocking ATK bindings for 20/21 with my stock arriving in September. A couple of my customers have recently asked me the same question so I emailed the factory this afternoon as to whether there's a difference in the toe spring tensions (in ski mode) between the C-Raider 12, the Raider 12 and the Freeraider 14. I'll post the relpy here when I get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by llyon
^^^ Cool, Spidey.
Awesome, thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
Apologies if any of this has been addressed previously...
Can anyone confirm that the heel for the BD Helio 350 is that of the Raider 12? (I realize the toe is different)
Am I correct in my understanding that this heel differs from the Freeraider 14 in terms of the brake/freeirde spacer/stomp pad assembly as well?
From the limited photos I can find it seems to be different...
Thanks
It's all conjecture that the heel is a Raider 12 ... but ... the Radier 12 and the Freeraider 14 are the only heels in the ATK lineup with the double flippy (5 riser positions total).Quote:
Originally Posted by fasa
In the ATK line, the stomp pad is standard on the 14 & optional on the 12. Dunno what BD is ofering, but at their prices, they'd better throw in the pad (although I doubt it).
If you read through this thread, you'll find a link to the 2020/21 catalog (link posted by @Spyderjon). Then ... you'll know everything about ATK (not necessarily Hagan and BD, of course).
... Thom
Phenomenal, sorry I missed it, thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
I haven't forgotten about this but ATK are on August holiday shutdown in Italy at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyderjon
at those prices, BD better throw in more than just the stomp pad. who pays full price for that shit??Quote:
Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un
spyderjon and thom - thanks for all the beta. i'm super stoked for the release 10, seems like a sweet binding. the whole carbon composite thing does worry me a little bit, especially because what appealed to me originally with ATK was the full metal construction, but i trust they've done their materials science homework.
Hear you. Hoping maybe it mellows the harshness and yes thank you Thom and spyderjohn
Crazy prices indeed. Definitely send your pesos across the pond to @Spyderjon ... that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
... Thom
Well, I happen to be trying to figure out a Swiss cheese mount, where a Crest toe/R12 heel combo would actually work better than either of those bindings straight up. I'm sure BD made that call with me specifically in mind.
Has anybody gotten a clue on what the heel/toe delta is for the R12/R14?
Blister seem to like R12s: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...12-majesty-r12
Their model name changes (and then back again) confuse matters, but I'm betting on 10.5 ish. See post #1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtlange
I'll try to unravel this (yet again) to update the spreadsheet.
It's hard to document the name changes on the spreadsheet, with them going back and forth with which version is the Raider (heel mounted brake vs. toe mounted). Currently, all models with "Raider" in the name have the brake at the heel, and the "Front" (Front-12) is the designation for the toe brake version.
... Thom
I heard rumblings about Black Diamond selling a rebranded Haute Route 10 as the "Helio 165" this year, does anybody have info about this?
yep, they're selling the Helio 200 but without the adjustment plate. my inside source confirmed the same thing. estimated fall 2020.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
I wonder if they will follow the diabetic, canned fruit model, where they charge you extra for leaving out the sugar ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
[context edit] That was the case, when I was a kid & we picked the stuff up for my grandmother [/edit]
... Thom