subscribing.
cant wait to get my 191s on snow
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subscribing.
cant wait to get my 191s on snow
I’m a Katana guy....but the Mantra102 sounds nice for “icy” days...haha
I've seen the Mantra V-Werks being mentioned several times in this thread, but only in passing. Since several mags in this thread have experience with the skis I am currently contemplating, I thought I should give this thread a go too - not only the touring ski in the alps thread.
I am currently pondering if I should get me a set of kendo 88s, m5s or m102s, or should keep my wren96ti + mantra v werks combo.
More specifically, I am contemplating if remounting the mvws at +1 or +2 would make that ski be a bit more what I want it to be. I find the tips to want to lift a bit too much at high speeds on hard surfaces when being driven from a more centered stance. I am not terribly concerned with loosing soft snow ability as the shovels are plenty wide and the flex pattern and rocker profile should do soft snow just fine. The skis will see a fair bit of resort use, and again - I am not concerned about how they tour at all. Mounted with Vipecs.
Also, any feedback on mounting either k88s, m5s or m102s at +1 or +2 would be most welcome too.
The main idea is to have a narrower set of skis that can handle speed well and that I can work on my going mach looney skills on, but that doesn't need to be driven like crazy at all times. Wren96tis are fun, but I am uncertain if their rocker profile and flex pattern is what I am looking for. I also tried Rustler 10s, but found them to prefer shorter turns, and Fischer Ranger 102frs, but was not a fan of their flex pattern or tune. I am a huge fan of BMT90s, BMT122s and Katana V Werks, so that is why I am contemplating k88s, m5s and m102s - all in the 177 length.
Thanks in advance for any and all feedback!
and yes, obviously I am overthinking this :)
What does this mean? Are you turning or straight lining? Are you getting bounced?Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
If it’s in a turn, what part of the turn?
What does “lift” mean? Literally up, like a hovercraft? Or engaging the snow and pulling across your line?
lift as in lift :)
It was this weird sensation that air got caught under the shovels that made the shovels (and thus the rest of thhe ski would follow) be forced upwards aka lift aka not stay on the ground. Not flap, not bounce, but that the shovels wanted to get airborne from a consistent pressure from under the shovels. It only happened once, doing big arcs at fairly high speed on a groomer. I see no other situations where it could happen, other than on hard groomers.
It was probably exarcerbated/caused by improper technique and being a bit too back seat (though it felt like I was standing centered / driving the skis from a centered stance just fine) and that the skis are quite light. It was not a big deal during the parts of the run where I experienced it, but it would have been unwanted at mach looney going down a steep groomer / dh course. It was just quite weird, and not something I can remember have happen to me on other skis.
Putting more pressure on the tips is the obvious "solution" to the issue, but where I was thinking that perhaps a more centered mount would make it disappear too while also enable a more centered riding position - i dunno, hence the question.
So no, not as in catching / making the skis turn. I have not found them / MVWs to be overly turny.
and re the mount question; the premise of that question is not "how to prevent lift if you have experienced it / what can I do to not experience it again" but straight up "what are your experiences from a more centered mount". :)
tahnks for chiming in and sorry to be vague
Kid,
Interesting description. I don’t think I’ve ever felt that on skis.
I have felt it on a motorcycle. I was roadracing a yzf-r1 that was set up for someone 15kg heavier than me. At about 160mph (256 km/h) the air would pack up under the radiator and lift the front tire off the contact patch enough to cause a headshake.
In your case, it seems like you felt the ski flex more longitudinally than you expected. Moving the binding forward would shorten the “spring” of the front of the ski and make it stiffer. It might make enough difference to kill the lift. But in general, you’ll lose stability with a forward mount, so you will have to balance your goals for a “mach looney“ ski. Does the ski have stability to spare?
I have some Blizzard fis GS skis for mach-looney days, but I think I’m getting too old for that because I didn’t even ski them once last year.
Kid,
Without knowing anything else about you take this for what it's worth (nada).
Maybe think about how ski length plays into this equation? "Mach loony" and 177cm are incongruous unless you weigh a scant 100 pounds. It's all relative of course because one can hit a state of M-L on any ski, and any speed depending on the circumstances. However, consider that SL skis are 165, and a reasonable length GS for a U16 athlete is a 185cm. If your typical skiing speed is more towards the GS range, or higher, then a 177cm is going to be limiting regardless of the plank you're on.
Additionally, the M102 and M5 are both much more adept at speed than the VW version. Not that the VW is all that lacking mind you - it's a wonderfully fantastic ski for it's intended purpose, but it's primary design goal was to be lightweight while retaining as much of the desirable characteristics as possible. The MVW has less metal than the M102 and M5, and metal is a key ingredient when it comes to stability at speed (The MVW has a titanal band versus the full frame layer in the M102 and M5). In general more metal = more loony.
Now ... let's start talking about where we're going to mount that new 191cm Katana! From what I've seen so far it's basically a wider version of the M102, which is a very good start.
Sounds like you want the real (M5) Mantra, bonafide or sth similar, not the VW Mantra.
hehe, yeah - that might very well be mr smooth :)
The MVW's quiver role is as a 50/50 ski. I am def not expecting it to ski like a 2000gr+ two sheets of metal ski. The sensation described above was just so odd though, so I thougth a remount could make them a bit better. To be fair, when I skied the excact same spot/speed on BMT90s it kinda felt like I had no skis on - their meager weight just disappeared. So for sure. MVWs pack more stability and big arc prowess than their weigth suggests. I do not really see any other ski that fit the intended role any better though, so I guess I should just give them a bit more time.
Stradissimo and YoEddy - thanks for chiming in, much appreciated. :)
If anybody has a pair of M102s in 177 that you might want to trade for a pair of M5s, shoot me a pm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
KK - this speaks volumes.
I'm assuming mach looney isn't your normal Modus Operandi?
A few tips, humbly...
Going fast requires you to be in a forward stance. Big G forces ask for a high level of preparedness and fast twitch response.
Lean into it. Hence the longer ski advice. They get shorter after about 45-55 mph.
Also, for me, tip rocker is a detriment at speed. Full camber for this game.
Skiing really fast is extra risky. For everyone. Ya gotta be hyper aware. Gimbal-headed.
Accidents happen in a blink, people don't care to be buzzed, carnage level is usually severe, chronic pain potential.
So get off your arches and put the hammer down.
I think you read a bit to much into those somewhat dramatically highlighted parts. :) Thanks for the input though - much appreciated.
MVWs has been mentioned in touring ski thread and this thread by people who seem to have a fair bit of time on them. That is why I posted in those two threads, not bacause I am expecting MVWs to ski like Mantra102s, let alone a world cup worthy piste shredder. I kinda was expecting the shovels/ski to want to stay on the ground at speed without me having to drive the shit out of the shovels - the shovels are not that flimsy. My mistake I guess, though fixing my shit technique is for sure the most obvious place to start.
As for speed / mach looney, no - trying to go fast as I can is very much what I aim to do whenever I ski. My favorite run at one of my home resorts is the old world cup downhill course. The most scary part of that run is not the speed or steepness, but encountering people who really shouldn't be on the course when going over semi-blind roll overs at high speeds. Again, I am no ex-racer with impeccable technique so my room for improvement is fairly substantial :)
Perhaps somebody who have tried MVWs mounted at +1 or +2 will chime in ( I do not know if that is as common as going +2-3 or Katana VWs), or if not, perhaps I should just give it a go :) Or perhaps I should move on and try some other ski. I dunno - right now I am leaning toward the second option. :) You see, I just woke up on Sunday with this crazy urge to try m5s and Mantra102s and I am trying to not cave in ;)
Thanks again :)
This sounds like an accident waiting to happen, especially on Mantra VWerks mounted +2 to compensate for skiing “centered stance” ( i.e. backseat) Good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Sorry, didn't mean to YELL.
Word, No negatives intended it just seems like a good place to start. The forward thing, I mean.
Fucking people in the way. We're skiing here!
I am exceptionally verbal with other skiers in regards to their proximity to me.
'Cuz there ain't no accountin' for folks.
I've never skied that run on MVWs and centered does not equal backseat. Still, you are probably right wrt using MVWs on that specific run - it is probably not the best of ideas. And since the main point of that quiver slot is going down that run as fast as I can - or be very playful (MVWs are neither nor imho), it should probably not be filled by MVWs - fair point indeed. Oh well :)Quote:
Originally Posted by singlecross
I can't recall what ski I used down that run the times I've managed to ski it the fastest, but it was not a touring ski (or anything that can be mistaken as a touring ski). But it was probably something with an inordinate amount of front rocker aka a wren88s or wren 108s. :)
Djongo - no worries :)
MVW tail isn't very stiff, maybe loading it trying to stabilize the ski flexed the tail enough to lift the tips? Something fully cambered and heavier with lots of metal like an MX88/98 or Monster would feel a lot more substantial at speed.
yeah - something along those lines was probably what happened. Or me getting a bit back seat and then being surprised by tails that did not provide the amount of support that I was expecting. It is not like I took a dive or lost my confidence in the skis - it was just a bit odd. Thanks for chiming in though.
I must admit to having spent a lot of time and effort researching narrower skis this week. End result? I impulse bougth a pair of 122mm wide pow skis (SGN UrRakkar), one of the softest skis I know of when hand flexing. So Operation Acquisition of Slayer of Feeble Pistes has gotten off to a pretty alternative start - these will be mediocre at best on anything sligthly firm. :)
#stayoutofthebackseatQuote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
#stayinthebackcountry
This place is falling apart, eight pages about mounting and not one innuendo like I like to mount from behind.
How does this m102 compare to the M4 (or whatever- you know, the 100 underfoot, made from 14/15-17/18, flat underfoot, gentle rocker one that i absolutely love and am on pair # 2 in 184 of)?
Newer sidecuts make it easier to turn a variety of shapes. Titanal frame provide a more enjoyable flex and energy IMO. Pivots more easily. Burlier.
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2020 Manta 102 in 177 or 184 on eBay with Marker Griffon ID bindings for $649. Decent deal.
Or pay $579 USD for the same package directly from Corbett’s...Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Free shipping and mounting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
Doesn't look like it. I'd rather keep the $$ on this side of the border anyway.
Free shipping but not mounting.
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Free shipping and mount your own stuff...hell, my kids mount their own skis and have since they started...[emoji14]Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Thank god you buy your made in China, German brand skis from the US of FKNAQuote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
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Ooooh, good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by poleplant
Powder 7 has some good deals. Some 191s too.
https://www.powder7.com/Volkl-Mantra-102-Skis/for-sale
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I do not know if they ship across the pond, but the good folks over at Sport Bittl have a pretty sensational deal for Mantra102s (all sizes) at 57% off:
https://www.sport-bittl.com/en/voelk...0::162208.html
One of the most underrated skis getting dumped for a graphics change that still remains blah in ‘21
Proof that graphics matter.
If the M102 looked like the art the engineers put into it it would be a different story.
The ugliest, and the most versatile ski of my life.
“If they don’t find you handsome, they better find you handy.”
You seem to have some of the most time on them. Did you ever ski gen4? Fondled the 102 in store. Worried that no longer having the flat underfoot will make them resistant to an easy pivot and smear. Love that about the gen4Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
Never skied any Mantra before this one.
They are super easy to pivot, and ski in general, though.
I haven’t had them in deep pow in the forest though. That’s the true pivotability test to me where trees dictate that a specific turn shape must be created.
No snow last year in Japan. Just mank and groomers— the M102’s element.
Volklpowdermaniac - I wrote this way back on page 2 as my comparison of older versions. The M102 does what you're looking for better than any version before it.
For background my Mantra experience started with the 2007 iteration when I was looking for something to replace the venerable 2005 Explosiv maroon Buddha. I've also had the 2013 Mantra, and currently own the 2016 as well as the 2019 V-Werks versions. All iterations of my Mantras were 191's (although i did mistakenly buy a 184 that I didn't keep). FWIW I've also had multiple iterations of Gotamas, and Katanas (still my fav) so I'm quite familiar with the Volkl 'recipe'. I don't own an M5 but skied on them several times, and while they seem to be the most versatile iteration they still felt similar & familiar. That said, maybe I'm transferring too much old experience on the M5 ... but I'm not buying a pair to find out.
Anyway, I liked all of them, but would say the older generations felt like fat GS race skis whereas the more recent generations with camber & rocker felt slightly more playful, but still quite directional. The 102 however feels both directional and pivoty - it goes from railing GS turns like the older versions to smearing/pivoting, which none of the other versions I've been on did with such ease. That's not to say that they'll pivot like a clown-shoe-rockered ski, but they are definitely more versatile in that regard than any other Mantra I've been on. They also plow through chop & chunder with aplomb similar to old Katanas (haven't been on a Confession) - again more so than any other Mantra I've been on.
Which brings me full circle - this thing is not a Mantra.
I’ve only spent a few hours on a pair of 184 M102’s but have owned Gen 2 and Gen 4 Mantras as well as Several Gotama and Katana models. Very much agree with this review/perspective. The M102 skis like a Mantra-Gotama hybrid, with a surprising amount of looseness in deeper, variable conditions. It completely blew me away. I bought a pair of 184’s I am anxious to get on snow.Quote:
Originally Posted by YoEddy
How does the M102 handle choppy, chunky, skied out, wet snow, like what you see a lot in Cali, Oregon, Washington resorts a few hours after it stops snowing?
Considering picking up a pair, will mount with Pivots as usual.
Anybody have Pivots on them and care to comment on brake widths? For 102 I guess both 95 and 115 will be fine, especially since they don't have to much sidecut, so they shouldn't get much wider behind the mount point.
And yes, I know they'll bend out nicely, but still. Guess I'm just postponing the inevitable purchase
From my earlier post - "... They also plow through chop & chunder with aplomb similar to old Katanas (haven't been on a Confession) - again more so than any other Mantra I've been on."Quote:
Originally Posted by IrieIbex
They're awesome so of course I sold them. haha .. because I bought the the new Katana that has the same exact construction except wider at 108mm. Schwing!
I’m trying to decide on some pups from this new Volkl litter.
Looking at M102, K108 and the blaze in either 94 or 106.
I live in New England, blaze will get a tech binding, the burlier pup will be alpine.
You can pick two, which ones get adopted?
Oh and I have the new Kendo too. Never owned a Volkl before but I’m going in deep this season.