Here's a question, does advocating for human-powered access inherently make a person/group anti-osv access?Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW
Here's a question, does advocating for human-powered access inherently make a person/group anti-osv access?Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW
Somehow I missed that there was a threat made against Alpenglow/Brendan M. That's fucked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by lepistoir
Thanks to the groups working hard to get us access.
Here's some Tahoe stoke
https://vimeo.com/362944129
Not sure why no posty? Tyler Curle season edit: https://vimeo.com/362944129
Losing Hellhole is a huge loss to the South lake sled community and for a reason thats total bullshit, I'd bet money not a single frog has ever died back there due to sled access. Guess what this is just gonna encourage more poaching and for those that wont poach, instead of sledding from there backyard they got to drive the sled to a legal zone, really fucking sad state of affairs, guess no one teaches there kids to share anymore, mine mine mine, if you dont play like me fuck you GTFO.
I don’t think so. Just like most things in life, it’s about sharing and compromise. I know that I would prefer no OSVs in my backcountry spots but I also understand that it’s not realistic. They have a right to enjoy the snow too, just like resort skiers. I don’t see backcountry skiers calling on eliminating resorts and returning them to “pristine” backcountry destinations and I don’t think that backcountry skiers should be inherently anti OSV.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Getting people to submit anti-access form letters does.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
Coming in hot with the straw man there...Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW
Given the temps this week (50s - 60s during the day, 20s - 30s during the night) it could very well be a nice weekend of corn snow.
Mt. Lola is holding.
Basin Peak is holding.
Carson Pass area (Blue Lakes Road, Winnemucca Lake, Roundtop Lake, etc) is still holding.
Great time to get out and make some turns, work out the ski leg kinks, get those rock skis primed for early season, and enjoy nature.
Also, given the time of year, there shouldn't be any sleds to contend with (for those of you opposed to them).
Probably won't be a lot of other skiers (so no lift lines) or even that many mountain bikers out at the spots I listed, either.
Log them October turns, yo!
:)
What's the straw man?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
They actually did that.
A straw man argument is when someone argues against a persons viewpoint or the question at hand but they aren’t actually addressing the actual question or statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
What did the letter say? Because everything I’ve seen says “we would like a non-motorized area at point a, but would like to keep a motorized area at point b” which to me says they’re advocating for non-motorized use while not being anti-osv. Anyway, I’m done detracting from the thread and think these sort of conversations should have their own thread.
I always took the part about 'human powered' on their web site as a marketing point to help make the cause sound better politically within the basin, rather than shutting the door on snowmobilers, but I could be wrong.
Continuing to discuss while saying you're done discussing is always fun. Meh, it ain't snowing so nothing else going on. And this is relevant for everything outside of a ski area in the basin. If you want a different thread make one. I know what a straw man is, and SDW's point was not one, it was real example answering your question. Advocating FOR a particular use is one thing. When that becomes advocating against another use, it becomes something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoSlowGoFar
I've already explained some of the inherent closures in the alternative they supported, which you said you saw. There are more I didn't mention that only affect sledders that you probably don't know very well. Most of those were in the alternative to begin with because of snowlands, who the TBA has tried to distance themselves from, but then intentionally or not, supported. That alone is enough, because it's stuff no one even skis, yet they were advocating for closing it. That's not something minor you can just brush off. Lot's of people in Loyalton and Sierra Valley ride sleds around Babbitt peak but the TBA didn't even care enough to look into it.
I just looked through my emails. The form letter they sent out was linked to something on winter wildlands' page which has been taken down since the comment period expired last year. You've mostly got it though on that page you quoted. In addition to the places I already mentioned, they wanted the north bowls of castle peak and sierra buttes closed. Most of the buttes area is owned by a land trust put together by sierra county locals who acquired the land specifically to keep it open to snowmobiles. They wanted the FS parcels closed which is basically a big screw you to that group who had the foresight to keep it open to everyone.
The castle peak thing addresses what's essentially a non-issue. There's not a whole lot of sled traffic going up and down the face of that place. It does happen but it's mainly in one spot/one gully. In years like last year with a huge snowpack, guys using sleds to ski were using that as a tandem route. Just one track up, in one gully. This would have made that very limited usage illegal, and ruin what's probably a pretty good memory for the guys able to use that route last year. It's just dumb. Plus how the hell would that even be marked......some random line on the slope that no one can see, no one is going to sign, and even if they did, whatever poles they used would be buried every significant storm, most likely just leading to trash in there. I've skied out there for two decades, hiking there for the first and using sleds and hiking for the last 10-12 years. If you don't like sleds, Donner Peak and Trestle peak are right there, and cold stream and deep creek are just down the road. Plus all the other places in the basin that sleds aren't allowed. Plus the month or so every year when castle fills in and there's no snow at the sled staging spots yet. For me personally, this wouldn't affect what I do because I'm just there to ski. But it's not just about me me me. And hey you could even just ski your line just like everyone else back there and crack a beer with some of the sled skiers at the bottom and make a new friend. Crazy, I know.
That's the problem with assuming to speak for multiple user groups. Sure lots of that sounds fine to a skier. But that skier has no point of reference for how it's truly going to affect the other user group who knows their activity way better, and knows the magnitude of what they're losing. It's the same thing as hikers always telling mountainbikers they can just 'go somewhere else' when that hiker has no idea what else is actually available or not to go to. Advocating for another "non-motorized area" is a closure. It's just a coward's way of saying it.
I asked if advocating for non-motorized/human powered access inherently makes a person/group anti-osv access. Stating that a letter was sent out making recommendations to create non-motorized areas doesn't at all answer the question I asked, so yes, it is a straw man.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
So is advocating for a motorized area a coward's way of saying piss off to non-motorized users that want to enjoy that same area? Because that argument can go both ways. More so, it isn't very conducive to productive dialogue between the two groups. Have you sat down with the TBA board to speak with them? It seems like you have some valuable insight that could benefit both user groups moving forward and from my limited interactions they're all pretty approachable people that are open to discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Well to answer your original question: It doesn't seem to me that advocating for non-motorized use is inherently anti-motorized. Getting some real parking at tallac again would be an example of something awesome, that doesn't screw with another user group. But like powdork alluded to, it tends to be a soft way of covering for anti-motorized actions these days. The way I see it, the broad collaborative group of backcountry users that TBA calls far in that bit you quoted could be even stronger if it just included everyone using the backcountry. That would be really be an informed group. But then they went ahead and started the 'human-powered' thing and by doing so specifically alienated some good potential allies. It's the same thing the sierra club did with mountainbikers in the 80s.
To your second question: It depends on what you're talking about. Advocating for a hill climb snowmobile course straight up houglass? Yes that would pretty much be telling skiers to piss off. But that's not what's being discussed. What in that plan did you ever see proposed as open to sleds that currently isn't? There was none. It's only stuff being closed. So no, there was no motorized user or group looking to do that, just people moving the other way to close things to sleds. It was completely one-directional. You know as well as I do how many guide books, websites, and stores serve backcountry skiing around here. It seems to be doing just fine. And motorized use allowed doesn't mean you can't ski there. Go up to sonora pass midwinter sometime, the place is full of skiers and boarders right in the middle of the sled zones. Motorized legal doesn't inherently mean skiing incompatible.
I did meet with at the time two board members of the TBA with a bunch of snowmobilers who ride sleds full time. They pretty much ignored what most of the long time snowmobilers brought up as their own concerns, stuff I hadn't even noticed in the Tahoe plan at the time. One of the guys isn't on the board anymore, the other still is. I don't need to air dirty laundry or get personal but just know that I have my stances for a reason, and it's not from staying isolated in my little bubble of talking to people that only do what I do. Plus my skiing never feels threatened, at least in the way that it's illegal to do. My sled access always does. If I come across as one-sided, that's why.
February 2019
Attachment 297336
Could be a long season for Sugar Bowl. Most of the Tahoe ski areas are serviced by Liberty Utilities or NV Energy but not Sugar Bowl. All of Donner Summit are PG&E customers.
Very little and nowhere close to the forecasted high winds up here this week, but Soda Springs had no power Wed, Thu, or Fri, it finally came back on about 5PM yesterday.
Sugar Bowl better have a big stock of diesel for backup. With PG&E's itchy trigger finger, just no telling when they'll go into irrational panic mode and kill the power.
And March 1...Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarbro365
Attachment 297520
If it's still dry enough to be fire season in the Central Valley in Jan-Feb then it probably won't be much of a ski season anyway... I've seen SB run lifts for 3-4 days without power though.Quote:
Originally Posted by powpig
Not many people know this but they have the real Mickey Mouse trapped in a basement running on a wheel for backup power. Juiced up on roids for 70 years, he looks nothing like the cartoons of the 30s any more. Another one of Walt Disney's sick secrets.Quote:
Originally Posted by teledad
Feb 10, 2019
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ae1370ff0b.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lol... think this one through a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by powpig
That’s fake news...no traffic of pioneer?!Quote:
Originally Posted by lepistoir
Don’t ya know, if you’re going to post anti-stoke, you’re required to post actual stoke to balance it out?
March 2019
Attachment 297654
That map is only "anti" if you're stuck on the road at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarbro365
If you are snug at home, planning ahead for a few days out, it is very much stoke worthy, imho...
Sent from my SM-G950U1 using TGR Forums mobile app
That's not a traffic map. It's a chain control map that shows 80 and 50 with massive closures. Not to mention 431, 267, and of course 88 & 89. I think it had even stopped snowing at that point. There probably was a point in that storm when Spooner and Kingsbury were closed too and that's the sickness to me. Airtight. Totally stroked on that image -or even better if avalanche threat closed the river road (89 TC - Truckee) and 20 thru Crystal Bay. Oh yeah. That's what does it for me. It took days to plow out and they completely surrendered the Castle Peak sno-park. That's stoke to me cuz it tells the story of something unique and awesome about that storm and that year. Just like how your pic shows that cooler in unique and rare form. Nice send and great shot!Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarbro365
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oof! My bad.
Pics to offset my anti-stoke assumptions...
Mid-May Pow Day 2019
Attachment 297659
Attachment 297660
Attachment 297658
Feb 10, 2019Quote:
Originally Posted by lepistoir
Attachment 297684
Jan 9, 2019
Attachment 297727
Attachment 297730
Started a thread in the Slide Zone, but thought there might be more eyes over here.
Thanks dishwasher-dave - appreciate the heads up.
Saw this MONSTER road gap by Baby J...WOW. :eek: https://www.instagram.com/p/B3mhjJ5JQ0l/
I think that's going up to Echo Summit, but not sure.
It is. Just uphill of where the small pond (that you can make out in the vid) is under the road.
Yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
Northstar is a waste of time anyway, I’d rather ski tour any day
He did it twice too! Broke his skis on the first one.Quote:
Originally Posted by meter-man
Bachelor party in the Pine Nuts
Attachment 298172
Attachment 298173
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Attachment 298242
December 2nd, 2018.
Aka 6 weeks from now, last year.
February 17th, 2019
Attachment 298254
SF Chron on the federal government's weather predictions for California this winter (basically, "prepare to ride your bike!"), and our very own Open Snow BA calling them out. :biggrin: https://www.sfchronicle.com/environm...w-14541742.php
"Ask me in May, and I’ll tell you all about this winter." :biggrin:
Here's my prediction:
Not as much snow as last year. :computer:
...... but more than 2014?
Please?
Since this thread is full of old stoke, and since I haven't posted in the Tahoe thread yet...
Some fleeting snow from the end of September
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0a9d8364_b.jpg