Hot tubs. A discussion.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Picking up a hot Springs Vanguard this week. Our well water has a lot of non iron minerals, should I filter it at all when filling it? What chemicals to start with?

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No need to filter as far as I know as long as the pH is ok. I believe you can get scale buildup from the minerals if you let the pH get too high.
There are many ways to go. What I do is this--start by measuring the pH and adjust using pH test strips and either pH increaser or pH decreaser. You may also need to use total alkalinity increaser if the total alkalinity is low with the pH normal, but I never have to do this.

Then use silver ion sanitizer like this one https://www.amazon.com/Spring-Freshw.../dp/B00CJ9KMUI. It goes in the filter tube, lasts 4 months.

It needs a little bit of chlorine to activate (NOT bromine), not a full sanitizing dose. i use dichlor, 1 tsp every use for a 300 gal spa.
https://www.amazon.com/Granular-Dich.../dp/B00B76JH2S

I shock once weekly, with MPS. https://www.amazon.com/2-Pack-Oxy-Sp.../dp/B00AVYTYS4 I use 4 tbs in 300 gal. Before shocking test and adjust the pH.
I don't use for 24 hours after shocking. If the MPS still tests high with the test strips the next day I will skip the dichlor after use that day and start using it the following day.

You can activate the silver with MPS and you can shock with dichlor but the way I have described works for me. They both due essentially the same thing. I don't like the idea of putting a lot of chlorine in to shock; the MPS seems more benign on the skin, but the dichlor for the daily use is cheaper. I shock the spa if I'm not going to use it for a long time.

Clean the filter every month--so get some filter cleaner.

If the spa water gets cloudy you can use clarifier--the directions say to treat weekly but I only use when it gets cloudy.

If you use the jets with air you may need an anti foamer but I have never used it.

Change the water every 4 months, more often if you can't keep it clear.

So to start with pH increaser and decreaser, silver ion dispenser, dichlor, MPS, filter cleaner, test strips.

Our Hot Spot came with good maintenance instructions.

As far as other chemicals, I strongly recommend against bottle beer. as stepping on an upside down bottle cap in the bottom of the spa is very painful.

That's like heating your house with a woodstove. it provides heat all right but it is very hard to control to a certain temperature.

If you really want to be sure that your pool/spa is chemically balanced, you need to get a controller. Strantrol is the cadillac, but there are plenty of cheap versions out there that work just as well.

https://automatedaquatics.com/wp-con...ol-Compact.png



Remember, you are dealing with a very small volume of water at a relatively high temperature. The chemical reactions will happen rather quickly and what could be an adequate sanitizer level when you first get in can be rapidly depleted by a high bather load. 6 people in a hot tub is a similar load to 200 people in a regular high school sized pool. Without a controller, it will be impossible to keep the water balanced.


Cloudy water is an indicator that your water is out of balance, or that your filter is pugged. A simple backwash will clean your filter. No extra chemicals needed. Then check your calcium hardness. The calcium is what helps the burned out organics combine together into big enough clumps to be filtered out. This is why you often see cloudy pools after swim practice. Lots of sweat in the water with out enough calcium in the water to give the filter a chance to do its job.




it is a lot more expensive to do this shit properly than most people are willing to pay. If you're not on metered water, your best option for safety is to fill and spill every time. Depending on how screwy your make-up water is, balancing such a small volume of water after filling is usually very easy.


a balanced body of water with a properly sized controller and pump setup should never need to be shocked. it will be safe to use every time you get in no matter the load.



and don't get your chemical advice from the pool store. they are salesmen, not chemists. pH up? your chlorine will do that naturally. pH down? also known as muriatic acid. you can get it cheap at agway. calcium flake can be bought much cheaper there also.

It’s not that hard to maintain balanced water. Strips aren’t accurate enough, you need a good test kit like the Taylor K-2006.

Get this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004B..._t2_B001DNXK78

Read this:
https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/i...er-maintaince/

Thank me later.

a good test kit is a good start.....

You guys make it way too expensive and complicated. My routine takes at most 30 seconds every time I use the spa, which is daily. Cleaning the filter takes about 15 minutes. (A Hot Springs portable spa is not designed to backwash the filter) The water stays clear--we have low calcium so once in a while I use clarifier, which does the same thing the calcium does--coagulates small particles into bigger ones the filter traps. Neufox has a lot of minerals so maybe won't need to do this. If I was running a built in spa at a resort I might consider a controller but hardly necessary for a small home portable spa, which is not really designed to use one as best as I can tell.. As far as test kits go I've used them but I find the strips a lot easier to read for pH.

I could make it simpler by using only MPS or only dichlor but I'm not going to give advice about a method I'm not using. The way I do it the water stays clear and is stable with minimal effort and no one seems to be getting sick.

Drain and refill after every use? I must be misunderstanding because that makes no sense to me.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Drain and refill after every use? I must be misunderstanding because that makes no sense to me.

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It is an extreme measure at one end of the spectrum. If you drain your water and allow everything to air dry for a sufficient amount of time then you will not have to worry about bacterial buildup and other organics in your pool. It would be a good alternative to somebody that was very rarely using their hot tub. In other words if you had it at a vacation house that you only used very occasionally.


It is obviously impractical for somebody that uses it every day the way that you do. There would not be enough time for the system to sufficiently dry out to kill the organics that you were trying to kill.


My experience in this realm comes from trying bringing public pools and spas up to the New York State health code standards. I made a lot of money doing this when the The new standards were first introduced.

Most people aren’t willing to bear the expense it it takes to uphold those standards. That’s fine with me. The public standards are definitely higher than what is needed for the average person will use. Just be careful about who you let into your pool and be vigilant about your testing and you’ll probably be fine.

However, if you are of the income level that a lot of the dentist around here are at, you probably don’t want to spend your time fucking around with test strips. Then in that case a very suitable alternative is available to you in the form of automated chemical controller’s that will take all the shit right off your mind and allow you to jump in that little fucking puddle of water whenever the hell you feel like it without having to worry about the possible disgusting health ramifications.




Surgeons, they clearly do not make enough money. Perhaps you should try taking up dental surgery. Perhaps that will help to improve your income bracket.
:wave:

I get it why public health standards for public pools or spas are so tight, especially in a place like NY. You have all those immigrants using them.

I'm not sure how you would hook up a controller to a portable spa like a hot spot, and if you tap into the plumbing you would definitely void the warranty. I don't know about controllers--seems like they're intended for built in spas?

As far as the accuracy of test strips--they seem to be accurate enough for things like urine pH and blood sugar.

As far as surgeons--retired or otherwise--not making enough money, it's not a question of not making enough, it's a question of spending too much. We tend to be away from our families a lot so we buy them off with too-big houses and lots of fancy furnishings and toys. Like spas. Plus once you're on your third or fourth wife paying for the exes and their kids gets pricey. Also the Ferrari to make us feel young again. There's all the money you lost investing with your wife's brother's kid. Then there's rehab . . .

You obviously know a lot more about the subject than I do--I'm just relaying my method with a very similar spa that seems to work. It comes straight from the manufacturer's instructions.

I'll thrown in my 2 cents. I'd say pH strips are consistent, not necessarily accurate. I've got the test kit shredhead linked but I don't use it every time. Seems every test strip kit I get reads slightly different. I use the taylor kit the first couple of strips until I know if they read high or low. Unfortunately tub test strips don't seem to be manufactured at the same quality as medical strips.

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I replaced my inflatable hot tub with a rotomolded plug and play Aquarest back in October. Filled it up and been pretty much just winging it adding about the same amount of bromine and shock that I’d been doing with the inflatable.

Found out that Folliculitis shit is real. I have a nice rash on my legs and back and the wife the same. Threw in a test strip tonight and found alkalinity and PH colors not even on the scale, free bromine deep purple.

Got it draining right now, headed to the pool supply store tomorrow and picking up a new filter. I think I’ll be dipping test strips regularly now till I figure it out.

https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/i...er-maintaince/

This is the easiest and cheapest method of water maintenance.

Get a Taylor K-2006 test kit. Strips are OK once you get your water balanced, but just aren’t accurate enough.

anybody have experience with this product.
http://www.freshrain.com/faq.php
no chemicals

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Originally Posted by BFD

anybody have experience with this product.
http://www.freshrain.com/faq.php
no chemicals

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No experience
Ionized oxygen is a chemical.
Whether you dump hydrogen peroxide into the spa or it's created from the ionized oxygen you put in your spa the end result is the same.
No idea if it's better or worse than any other spa chemical, but their advertising is misleading.

Bumping this thread now that I'm in the market. How do people feel about this guy's brand reviews? https://hottubuniversity.com/brand-reviews/

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Originally Posted by cravenmorhead

Bumping this thread now that I'm in the market. How do people feel about this guy's brand reviews? https://hottubuniversity.com/brand-reviews/

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Not to dissuade you, but at least for some brands, orders are like 8-12 months out right now. After talking to a few people in the business, you are basically ordering a hot tub for next winter at this point unless you can find a floor model, or cheapy from Costco or something. Or used but that always seems sketch.

I was in our Hot Springs dealer yesterday for some supplies. It’s amazing how empty their showroom is. The Watkins plant was shut down for 6 months. They’ve resumed production but now freight is the bottleneck.

Anyone own a small outdoor Japanese soaking tub?

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

Not to dissuade you, but at least for some brands, orders are like 8-12 months out right now. After talking to a few people in the business, you are basically ordering a hot tub for next winter at this point unless you can find a floor model, or cheapy from Costco or something. Or used but that always seems sketch.

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Yes, I'm aware of the lead time. The deck it will live on doesn't exist yet, and the house is halfway framed.

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Originally Posted by cravenmorhead

Yes, I'm aware of the lead time. The deck it will live on doesn't exist yet, and the house is halfway framed.

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That was the next recommendation that I deleted because I know nothing about your situation. Buy the hot tub first, then develop the site accordingly. Your dealer can probably give you some pretty good advice on install.

Other advice that I've gotten is to not put it on a deck if you can avoid it as the deck will wear out eventually from the moisture, weight, etc. But hey, over-engineer the fuck out of it and you'll probably be fine.

And to answer your actual question:
I've looked over that guy's site and it seems pretty decent, and unbiased. However, one thing about hot tubs is that they are somewhat regional, and you want to buy from a local dealer, who can service and maintain them and handle warranty work. Some of the hot tubs that he recommends might not have a dealer in your area. If there's not a dealer in your area, buying the best hot tub on the planet doesn't help you out that much.

I think that you are in CO? I know guys who sell Bullfrog and say they are the best (that website says these suck), and I know guys who sell Clearwater and say they are the best. Both say that Arctic Spas suck, although they seem to be everywhere. This isn't just from the sales guys, but also from the maintenance guys.

Hope this helps, we hope to order one soon too.

I have had two different hot tubs, at two different houses. My first one, was a monster headache, repair it, works for a monnth, then something else would go wrong repair it, until you finally throw it down the side of the mountain. And it would be my preference to have the current bullfrog one removed and hauled to the end of the earth and discarded into space forever.
I like sitting in a hot tub, but I hate everything else about them.

sent from Utah.

I’m in the market too... just here to post that hot tub salesman are the worst. Easily worse than used car salesman.


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Originally Posted by basinbeater

And it would be my preference to have the current bullfrog one removed and hauled to the end of the earth and discarded into space forever.

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My dad took a chainsaw to his after ~10 years, stuffed the pieces into some junk cars, and crushed them into oblivion.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

Other advice that I've gotten is to not put it on a deck if you can avoid it as the deck will wear out eventually from the moisture, weight, etc. But hey, over-engineer the fuck out of it and you'll probably be fine.

And to answer your actual question:
I've looked over that guy's site and it seems pretty decent, and unbiased. However, one thing about hot tubs is that they are somewhat regional, and you want to buy from a local dealer, who can service and maintain them and handle warranty work. Some of the hot tubs that he recommends might not have a dealer in your area. If there's not a dealer in your area, buying the best hot tub on the planet doesn't help you out that much.

I think that you are in CO? I know guys who sell Bullfrog and say they are the best (that website says these suck), and I know guys who sell Clearwater and say they are the best. Both say that Arctic Spas suck, although they seem to be everywhere. This isn't just from the sales guys, but also from the maintenance guys.

Hope this helps, we hope to order one soon too.

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Yeah, the deck has the views; will be engineered for the load.

Having a local dealer makes some sense. But when it comes to sales etc., it seems like everyone who sells them thinks theirs are the best. And it's hard to find what amounts to a semi-unbiased review. Though maybe that shouldn't be so surprising -- a lot of skiers will own multiple pairs of skis, but not that many people will own a lot of hot tubs. Makes first-hand comparisons tougher.

We got 27 years out of a Cal Spa. Replaced it 3 years ago on general principle--it still worked. Which means that 30 years ago Cal Spas made good spas. Who knows if they still do. We bought a Hot Spot. (Cheaper version of Hot Springs.)

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

I’m in the market too... just here to post that hot tub salesman are the worst. Easily worse than used car salesman.


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Our experience was completely opposite. He was attentive and answered our questions but gave no sales pitch at all. We asked him about that later and he said something along the lines of “these things sell themselves and if you’ve come in the door you probably want one.” We’ve had great after-sale support, too.

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Originally Posted by evasive_MT

Our experience was completely opposite. He was attentive and answered our questions but gave no sales pitch at all. We asked him about that later and he said something along the lines of “these things sell themselves and if you’ve come in the door you probably want one.” We’ve had great after-sale support, too.

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Mind me asking where? Looking at getting one soon and so far butte and Missoula are where I'll prob end up but Helena is almost same distance as well.

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Originally Posted by Name Redacted

Not to dissuade you, but at least for some brands, orders are like 8-12 months out right now. After talking to a few people in the business, you are basically ordering a hot tub for next winter at this point unless you can find a floor model, or cheapy from Costco or something. Or used but that always seems sketch.

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My wife and I got a hot tub about a year ago a few months before all this went down. We bought a new house and had the back done with pavers and a hot tub with some thing we had discussed for years. Dumb luck but now we’re living the lockdown dream back there.

The place we bought the hot tub from had the most ridiculous salesman. There is no way to describe this guy that does him e justice. But when I spoke to him recently he told me he couldn’t find a hot tub to sell to people. No joke.

Jacuzzi FWIW. Nothing too crazy. $13k or so straight up cash in hand. We really dig it and use it almost every other night when it’s not too hot.
Jacuzzi has a clear ray cleaning device. It seems to work well. Easy to maintain and put in chemicals if levels are off.


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Originally Posted by lifelinksplit

Mind me asking where? Looking at getting one soon and so far butte and Missoula are where I'll prob end up but Helena is almost same distance as well.

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Helena. Mountain Hot Tubs is a Hot Springs dealer. They have a Bozeman store too, but I don’t know the people there.

My only regret is not having wifi control.

It would be nice to turn up the temp and know when it’s ready without trudging outside.

If you’re in every day/night, they say just leave it hot. But ours has become one or two days a week.

Ymmv

One more data point: I started emailing companies in our state that handle hot tub maintenance and repairs but do NOT sell hot tubs to see what they recommend. Seems like as good of a source of information as anywhere. Only got one response so far, but I'll post up a compilation once I give it a little time.

Here's what I've gotten back from some of the servicing companies:

#1: The hot tub brands you don't want are any Canadian Watkins Products (
Hot Springs, Tiger River, Caldera or Aqua-Terra ), Jacuzzi ( having
quality problems last two years ), Tuff or Strong hot tubs with Balboa
Mini-Spa Pack only, ones with full size Balboa Spa Packs are good.

Better American brands are; Master Spas, Wind River Spas, Marque Spas,
Garden Spas, Sundance Spas and Cal Spas. Better Canadian Brand; Arctic
Spas.

But basically you want a hot tub that has a Balboa Control system-best
on market, Stay away from Gecko, Watkins IQ2000 and IQ2020 Spa packs (
lots of problems with these systems.

#2: Hot spring, sundance, marquis are the best

#3: Viking spas are good, Wind River Spas are good and made in Colorado. Dynasty spas are good as well as Jacuzzi. Sundance spas are good and they are joined to Jacuzzi. I recommend any spa that the equipment has easy access and commonly available parts. Artesian spas are good and I believe they stand by their products.

Obviously they're not in 100% agreement.

Nice, good research anyway. Of course nothing ever lines up. Sounds like Wind River spas are good though. Made in CO, named after a range that I've always wanted to go climbing in, and that's about all I need to hear.

We bought ours last October. As everyone else is saying...pretty much everyone has a year long wait list now.

We started by looking at Caldera (lower range of Hot Springs) and then compared them to Hot Springs at the dealers sister store. The price difference between the two wasn’t enough for us to not jump up to the Hot Springs and we have been very happy so far.

We also looked at Jacuzzi and American Whirlpool. They were all nice and seemed well built, but I thought the controls, hardware, and design of the Hot Springs was the best.

In the end, it seemed to mostly come down to the dealer we were most comfortable with that we thought would provide the best service if something went wrong.


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This market has a huge opportunity for a direct-to-consumer option...


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Originally Posted by gretch6364

We started by looking at Caldera (lower range of Hot Springs) and then compared them to Hot Springs at the dealers sister store. The price difference between the two wasn’t enough for us to not jump up to the Hot Springs and we have been very happy so far.

We also looked at Jacuzzi and American Whirlpool. They were all nice and seemed well built, but I thought the controls, hardware, and design of the Hot Springs was the best.

In the end, it seemed to mostly come down to the dealer we were most comfortable with that we thought would provide the best service if something went wrong.

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+1 exact same story with us. We got a 'end of year' discount when the new models were coming in. Got a good deal.

A good dealer is key - some parts will need replaced. A few parts on ours have blown (warranty) and they are always same day/next day service. Jake and his service team are great.

Im on heater #2, pump #3, double digit jet replacements, and just ordered the 3rd new cover. Refuse to pay anyone a "service fee" to come out and tell me its broke.

A hot tub is just another boat that does not move from the dock. Complete waste of money.

I love mine

Fuck. What brand? Model?


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Our refurbished hot springs vanguard has been breakdown free for a year now. We really like it. I highly recommend the refurbished route if you have a company in the area. The guy we bought it from finds high quality non-working hot tubs that are free or dirt cheap. Replaces the motherboard, maybe the pump and heater, headrests, etc. I think we paid $3750.


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If you go the used route or you ever let your tub turn green, this stuff will clean all the biofilm out of your pipes.

https://ahhsome.com

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Originally Posted by BobMc

In my blue collar world I picked up one of these a few months ago, it was only $300 at the time.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-S...&wl13=&veh=sem

Best $300 I ever spent. Next long holiday camping trip with full hook ups I'm bringing it along. It's really only big enough for two people, but it works well for that.

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how long did it last?
a price per day breakdown?
the best 3 bills i spent went into that hog island boat
i bets i could fill it and turn it into a hot tub
and i takes it on every camping trip:D

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Originally Posted by hawkgt

Im on heater #2, pump #3, double digit jet replacements, and just ordered the 3rd new cover. Refuse to pay anyone a "service fee" to come out and tell me its broke.

A hot tub is just another boat that does not move from the dock. Complete waste of money.

I love mine

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Hah
Love the boat analogy.

But hot tub plumbing is easy.
A new spa pack. Eg heater and brain, is five bills.

Used is better. Just like cars.

Ymmv