The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skibrd

False, read the website again. It reduces touring weight by up to 1000 grams, it's not 1000 grams. I'll get a weight later this week for a reference.

And, P18s weight 1250 grams, so take the toe off thr ski and the weight of the ski you are lifting every step is less then SHIFT.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using TGR Forums mobile app

---

Big Bird, We are not below the Shift for touring weight. Our touring weight is 1064g(tech toe on, Pivot toe off). The Shift is 850g. I'll try to stay up to date on this thread and answer questions when possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gray Lab

jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

---

I am going to attempt mounting the toes using my inserts and the M5 screws. I'm worried more about the lack of thickness of the M5 screw within the shoulder bolt than the shear strength, and am going to devise a way to make up that space with something like electrical wire heat shrink tubing on the top part of the bolt only (leaving the threads on the bottom exposed) to increase the thickness. In theory it should work. Any input from the CAST guys would be very helpful too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gray Lab

jdatour and tjbs thanks for the pics. Answered a lot of the questions I was having trying to figure out how the shoulder bolts mounted to the ski.

Maybe there aren't enough of people out here who already have BF or QK inserts in their skis to matter, but that's a group of potential users who need to be able to use M5 screws to mount the shoulder bolts. It makes me wonder if the shear strength of the M5 isn't strong enough and they had to go with the larger screw (apparently comparable to M6) for that reason. Does anyone know first hand it it was a shear strength issue? Or maybe they just didn't want to deal with the headaches from inserts that weren't installed perfectly plumb and in line.

If it's not a shear strength problem, it's at least theoretically possible for someone to fab a bolt with M5 threads to fit the inserts and a thicker body to fill the center of the shoulder bolt. Maybe this is one of the ideas for Cast 3.0.

Also, what is the point of the toe plate? Couldn't they have just screwed 4 shoulder bolts in to the ski using the mount pattern and called it a day?

---

Gray Lab, you'll notice in the last pic from tjburkesalad there is a small dimple in the toe shim. The locks for both the alpine and tech toes work using this dimple. The shim also gives a clean flat sliding surface for the bindings to slide on. Not necessarily the case with many top sheets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdadour

I am going to attempt mounting the toes using my inserts and the M5 screws. I'm worried more about the lack of thickness of the M5 screw within the shoulder bolt than the shear strength, and am going to devise a way to make up that space with something like electrical wire heat shrink tubing on the top part of the bolt only (leaving the threads on the bottom exposed) to increase the thickness. In theory it should work. Any input from the CAST guys would be very helpful too!

---

The Flathead of the M5 screw should be enough to locate the shoulder when fully tightened. Heat shrink could help to take some space if you're concerned but may be unnecessary. We don't use inserts because they often add unneeded issues.

We went with M5.5 binding screw sizing because it is standard, they work well, and helicoils tend to work better/fail less than inserts. To be clear, Lars and I use helicoils occasionally, usually only if threads become unusable from swapping bindings continuously. We also generally ski skis(read praxis) with solid hardwood cores and this is rarely an issue.

Interested to hear feedback on using with inserts as well as general reactions to this first generation. Thanks for the support.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers

The Flathead of the M5 screw should be enough to locate the shoulder when fully tightened. Heat shrink could help to take some space if you're concerned but may be unnecessary. We don't use inserts because they often add unneeded issues.

We went with M5.5 binding screw sizing because it is standard, they work well, and helicoils tend to work better/fail less than inserts. To be clear, Lars and I use helicoils occasionally, usually only if threads become unusable from swapping bindings continuously. We also generally ski skis(read praxis) with solid hardwood cores and this is rarely an issue.

Interested to hear feedback on using with inserts as well as general reactions to this first generation. Thanks for the support.

---

Thanks for the input Silas! I ordered some Flathead 18mm M5 screws. Will mount with the inserts and report back. Also think the heat shrink may be unnecessary, but Im going to try both ways and see if they mount any differently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers

Gray Lab, you'll notice in the last pic from tjburkesalad there is a small dimple in the toe shim. The locks for both the alpine and tech toes work using this dimple.

---

Thanks Silas. The dimple was covered earlier, too. My bad.

New product looks awesome guys!

Update. Just mounted the toes with inserts perfectly fine. Used some flathead 18mm M5 insert screws and they feel very solid. I dont think my concern about the screws being too narrow is relevant.

Also did the same process of getting the toe on, and then tightening the screw all the way down. Worked well and seems like the logical way to do it.

This system is SUPER SICK. Props to CAST, worth the wait.

Attachment 226619

Just posting in this very important thead. Mounted some Cast soles to a WC Plug boot. Reactions were mixed at the shop, as most thought it was great- one guy told me he was quite upset for ‘putting the shop in the postition of being involved in an irresponsible set-up’.....

They have held up superbly. Reminds me I need to send a pic to the shop.

Some weights for everyone:

Everything is per ski...
Toe Piece mounting screws (with collars): 27 g
Toe Piece SS plate: 38 g
Tech toe: 125g
Cast modded Look toe (no AFD): 511 g
thin AFD: 23 g
thick AFD: 28 g
Heel mounting screws: 14 g
Look Heel piece: 764 g
Touring riser/brake retainer: 91 g
Touring riser mounting screws: 8 g

So skiing weight on the ski: 1476-1481 g, with 125 g in the pack.
Touring weight on the ski: 1090-1095 g, with 511g in your pack.

Total system weight: 1601-1606 g.

Again, those are per ski numbers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snoboy

Some weights for everyone:

Everything is per ski...
Toe Piece mounting screws (with collars): 27 g
Toe Piece SS plate: 38 g
Tech toe: 125g
Cast modded Look toe (no AFD): 511 g
thin AFD: 23 g
thick AFD: 28 g
Heel mounting screws: 14 g
Look Heel piece: 764 g
Touring riser/brake retainer: 91 g
Touring riser mounting screws: 8 g

So skiing weight on the ski: 1476-1481 g, with 125 g in the pack.
Touring weight on the ski: 1090-1095 g, with 511g in your pack.

Total system weight: 1601-1606 g.

Again, those are per ski numbers.

---

Isn't just over a kilo about the weight of a frame binding ?

better ergonomics than a frame binding

looks good for a certain focus group of users !

I may be barking up the wrong tree, but for anyone that is interested in the Salomon Shift over the CAST (which is dope no doubt), we got a TGR group preorder going with a discount. Check it out if you're interested

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-SHIFT-Binders

different focus group and its already available

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XXX-er

different focus group and its already available

---

Word. There not a competition from my POV. I'm spreading information

I'm surprised there hasn't been more feedback on these now that they are out in the wild.

I've had mine mounted and skied them for a bit now. Impressions - basically awesome except for one kind of biggish problem. I have not had a chance to tour on them yet though, due to the problem...

On my 3rd run, I went straight over the handlebars and released from one ski. No issue there, it all felt good, and it should have released. Later that day, I noticed that one of the AFDs was missing. I guessed that somehow the AFD had come off when the ski came off my foot. Went to look and could not find it. At this point I have switched back to the Alpine AFD, as I am missing one of my WTR AFDs. That is why I have not been able to take the rig for a walk yet.

After a bit of thinking and playing around, and I came to the conclusion that the toe of the boot had knocked the AFD out of it's clip as I rotated forwards. It is easy to replicate this with the boot on your foot, or in your hands. Since then I have had it happen twice when I stepped out of the binding at the bottom of a run. Luckily I have been watching for the issue, and did not lose the part either time.

At this point, I am being hyper aware of how I remove my boot from the binding when stepping out. Also crossing fingers that I don't go over the bars again. Lars has sent me some spare parts, and is apparently working on a solution for the next production run. I don't want to talk down the product for hopefully fixable problem, mostly just want people to be aware and hopefully prevent a few lost AFDs.

I have considered drilling and tapping a small bolt hole into the base plate just ahead of the clip and running in a bolt that would hold a washer down over the edge of the clip and hopefully prevent it form being able to lift and release. A little bit of Vibratite should keep it from backing out, and while it would now require a tool to change the AFD, that would not be an issue for me, as I don't see that being something I will do often. See the mock up below.

Attachment 227585

On another line of thought - I have had some ideas about second ski mounts, inserts etc...

I was thinking that if I can find metal shoulder washers that are the right size it should be easy to tap them for an M5 bolt, then run the bolt in with some red Locktite. This should create a toe bolt that will fit BF inserts and be solid with no slop at all. There are tons of options for nylon shoulder washers apparently for insulating purposes, but finding steel ones seems to be hard. Any ideas?

The heel parts (binding and riser) could easily be mounted with inserts, and thus easy to swap. Even if the toe bolts aren't practical to do, it should be easy enough to have skis mounted with just the plate and the washer-screw combos up front, and inserts at the back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XXX-er

Isn't just over a kilo about the weight of a frame binding ?

better ergonomics than a frame binding

looks good for a certain focus group of users !

---

Comparable frame bindings with similar din are guardian and duke(both 16din) would add 1lb per foot. Together with the climbing ergonomics of a pintech the efficiency disparity is huge. They also ski better and should be much more durable and safer. My 1st gens have easily over 100 days of generally on hill abuse and around 30 days of touring. Still going strong and the nice thing is they’re just a complete alpine setup until I want to tour. I recently borrowed the dynafit toes from my cast plates and when I bolted them back to the cast plates, together with leaving them frozen in the back of my truck, the change overs were a pain to slide the plates in and out. Sorted now but the new system looks to have cured any of that happening. Curious to hear more feed back on the new system. Mine have been a nice addition to have on atleast one ski

Any updates for this season?
Subscribed to their mailing list today, but the nights are getting colder, and I'm pondering new quiver solutions for this year

Bump...

I don't want a Shift. I want a Pivot. Please tell me this is possible.

Can someone please share photos and experience of toe pedestal assembly? I was doing assembly of toe part and I'm struggling with compressing dat 18 din spring! I only managed to do that with pushing metal plate of the rod from AFD side. But it appears that's not the right way because when assembled, my toe piece is not flexing sideways even at very low din setting. Should the metal plate on the end of the rod be fully back?
Attachment 245077

Season update. The system arrived late in the season, but I have not been disappointed. I have over 20 days touring on them now, and 50 skiing. I will never go back. Last winter I skied an entire week on the Shift binding and would never recommend them. Sorry Salomon... The Cast system has its quirks, but I was able to work through them over time. I’ve never had a touring setup that didn’t have a learning period. For next season I saw Lars and Silas updated the brake retaining device and it looks sweet. Also, I would recommend letting them do the assembly. They are pros at it and have all the proper tools. I had more than one friend get injured skiing with locked out Kingpins last winter and now they all wish they forked up the extra cash. The new Cast system is bomber and will likely handle everyday abuse for years to come.

Do not get the shift binding. You are as high off the ski as a Duke, fragile as a Dynafit, only one bailer height, and no 0° walk mode (it starts at 2.5° like the Guardian, which fucking sucks on a approach). They are moving in a positive direction and their new QST skis for 2019 are sweet. But if you are even considering CAST you wouldn’t be happy with the Shift. The Shift did hold me in though, that’s more than I can say about any other tech binding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tjburkesalad

Do not get the shift binding. You are as high off the ski as a Duke, fragile as a Dynafit, only one bailer height, and no 0° walk mode (it starts at 2.5° like the Guardian, which fucking sucks on a approach). They are moving in a positive direction and their new QST skis for 2019 are sweet. But if you are even considering CAST you wouldn’t be happy with the Shift. The Shift did hold me in though, that’s more than I can say about any other tech binding.

---

Haha 7 post jong; who clearly sold his left testicle to get a pair of CASTs talking shit about the shift.

Shift stack height is 21mm, Cast is 20mm, Duke is 36mm, tecton is 24mm, pivot 18mm.

Fuck off.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

UPDATE:

Hey All,

Glad it seems like everyone has generally been stoked on the new system. We will be taking orders September 1st and sending orders November 1st. We have worked out the issues from the first production run (the brake retainer consistency, tech toe fit, durability issues) and are looking forward to getting a more dialed system out to folks for this season.

We are looking good on our parts supply for this falls production and are still regretful about the delay from last season. Thanks to everyone that stuck it out!

Keep spreading the word if your stoked on the system! cheers

Thanks for the update!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HukuTa_KydecHuk

Can someone please share photos and experience of toe pedestal assembly? I was doing assembly of toe part and I'm struggling with compressing dat 18 din spring! I only managed to do that with pushing metal plate of the rod from AFD side. But it appears that's not the right way because when assembled, my toe piece is not flexing sideways even at very low din setting. Should the metal plate on the end of the rod be fully back?
Attachment 245077

---

I think so. You've seen this I guess? https://casttouring.com/pages/freeto...e-instructions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers

UPDATE:

Hey All,

Glad it seems like everyone has generally been stoked on the new system. We will be taking orders September 1st and sending orders November 1st. We have worked out the issues from the first production run (the brake retainer consistency, tech toe fit, durability issues) and are looking forward to getting a more dialed system out to folks for this season.

We are looking good on our parts supply for this falls production and are still regretful about the delay from last season. Thanks to everyone that stuck it out!

Keep spreading the word if your stoked on the system! cheers

---

Sounds good.
Just to confirm....In addition to P18/FKS180s, one can use an older pair of FKS race 185s?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers

UPDATE:

Hey All,

Glad it seems like everyone has generally been stoked on the new system. We will be taking orders September 1st and sending orders November 1st. We have worked out the issues from the first production run (the brake retainer consistency, tech toe fit, durability issues) and are looking forward to getting a more dialed system out to folks for this season.

We are looking good on our parts supply for this falls production and are still regretful about the delay from last season. Thanks to everyone that stuck it out!

Keep spreading the word if your stoked on the system! cheers

---

What issues were you having with the tech toe? I have a pair of the Freetour, wasnt able to tour with them last season, but is there some issue we should be looking for?

Some folks had a tight fit with the tech arms locking around the shoulder bolts. It seemed as though most everyone was able to get them working smooth. The mount has to be fairly spot on and if it wasn't I think that's where most of those issues came up. We've made that interface a bit more foolproof for this season.

Is there much weight savings with the new CAST system compared to the old one in ski mode?

I do not have the numbers in front of me, but yes. The place I noticed it the most was in the touring toes.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

In ski mode, I doubt it. You have the same bindings you normally use plus a plate with shoulder bolts.

The heel riser system seems better but the weight savings would be minimal.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Here is an updated blister review. I was surprised that Cast is heavier than the shift while in touring mode + the weight of the pivot toes in your backpack.

http://blistergearreview.com/at-bind...ur-upgrade-kit




Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

The new version adds 170g of weight in ski mode, the old one adds 250g, so 80g weight savings. They also eliminated the extra stand height.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ZBMK8VMO0

That looks clean as tits. How much time do I have to order for a December 1st shipping?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silaschickeringayers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-ZBMK8VMO0

---

Daammmmmnnnn, I want! Good work!

Anybody know what the customs cost in Canada is like?

Anyone ever consider a group buy on here?


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

If you can get enough people together on here, we could set up a small TGR discount. I will stay tuned.