Fu*king Cyclists

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Originally Posted by AdironRider

Now I can't take you seriously because SLC has probably the widest streets in the country. Something about pulling U turns with teams of oxen or some prophet told them so, but still, come on man.

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That's just downtown where the original Plats of Zion dictated streets be wide enough flip a U with a team of oxen. Now we have massive streets with higher speed limits, but we also have a shit load of poorly timed stoplights. Downtown streets can be terrifying to cross, especially at mid-block crosswalks. Pedestrians get smoked on wide streets up and down the Wasatch Front.
South and east of downtown is full of roads that have 35-40mph streets that were once rural/semi rural and are now full of homes, schools and churches.....so many churches.

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Originally Posted by FLS

Isnt this supposed to be a winter enthusiast site....What about the snowboarders??

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They are notoriously slow as shit in the flats/traverses. Keep to the right motherfuckers!

:D

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

This thread just warms my soul. Can't wait to get out and do some miles!

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I thought it would. With any luck we'll hit 10 pages before the weekend starts.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I drive and I ride a bike on the road. As a driver I see plenty of asshole drivers (and suspect plenty of them see me that way). I also see plenty of asshole cyclists--mainly riding multiple abreast. As a cyclist I have to say that at least around here the average driver is far more considerate of cyclists than cyclists are of drivers. The law in CA is cyclists are to ride as far to the right as possible--that means single file unless you are both in a bike lane. Don't like the law--get it changed. You assholes who deliberately block traffic are making up your own rules--the very definition of egotism and self absorption. More importantly, by proving to drivers that cyclists are jerks, you are making it more dangerous for me to ride my bike.

Around here the big problem is Donner Pass Rd between the lake and the summit. Increasingly crowded going uphill with people who think they are racing up the Alpe d'Huez, at 2 MPH, literally. No shoulder in parts, double yellow with blind turns for 3 miles. So if I wait behind a cyclist, or cyclists my 10 min drive becomes one and a half hours, without exaggeration. Tough situation--I wish they would put some big parabolic mirrors on the outsides of the corners the way they do on mountain roads in Europe, so you could see when it was safe to pass the cyclists. (Coming down the bikes are often faster than the cars--couple years ago one of them hit a crack in the road and died.)

The funny thing about the video that started this post is that she's not the kind of cyclist most of us are thinking about.

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^This.

I don't ride road, I ride dirt.

Unfortunately, road weenies (an affectionate term :wink:) have a bad wrap around here because some are inconsiderate and break the road rules. Blow thru lights, stop signs, etc. They also do not understand how hard it is for some people to pass them safely. Not everyone is 25yrs old with perfect 20/20 vision and reflexes to maneuver around a group of people.

Bikers are on vacation. Many drivers are working and have deadlines and other concerns going on much more important.

When I see a biker on the other side of the road I move way over to give the vehicles trying to pass the biker some room. I make every effort to give the weenies as much room as possible, but I still think a bunch of them are assholes...some I know are assholes because I know them personally. :)

^^ Road toads is our local jargon...

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Originally Posted by snoqpass

You'd be wrong
http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

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note the words "where passing is unsafe"
it does not apply everywhere

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

note the words "where passing is unsafe"
it does not apply everywhere

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True but most of the time I've been around road bikers they seem to forget in this state when they are on the road they are required to obey the same rules as motorists. When coupled with their poor route choices like 55mph state routes with 12" or less of shoulder when there is alternatives I tend to be less than empathetic with their sport

Drive like it's your 12 year old daughter on the bike.

Bike like it's your 16 year old son driving the car.

Also, if your time is so valuable that you can't be bothered to stop at stop signs (cyclists) or wait until it's safe to pass (drivers), then you should have a private helicopter to fly you from place to place. Chill out and take care of each other out there.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Bicycles as a form of travel are literally 1% of trips in the US. So yea, when we talk about entitled cyclists blocking traffic, this is literally the 1% crapping on the 99%. When we are talking about bikers on mountain passes and the like, we are almost certainly talking about people using public roadways for exercise rather than travel.

I'm all for bike lanes and bike paths. I have plenty of friends and family who have been hit on the roads. Riding on roads scares me. I feel safer on dirt.

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Your article says that people using public roadways for active travel to work has declined sharply in the United States over the past few decades especially among women, children, and seniors and then links this decline in physical activity to increasing health problems like diabetes and obesity.

With all the anger and fear expressed in this thread is the sense of entitlement that roads should only be used by cars and trucks a big contributor all of this?

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

With all the anger and fear expressed in this thread is the sense of entitlement that roads should only be used by cars and trucks a big contributor to this?

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Nope, too many Americans are fat lazy fucks to begin with

People should simply be considerate, it's not that hard. Ride single file and towards the right in areas with narrow roads and poor sightlines. Cars pass when you can see what's coming. It's the assholes on both sides who cause the issues. Don't be an asshole.

With that said, if bikes want to be considered vehicles they need to obey the rules of the road. This includes stopping at stop signs and lights, and pulling off the road if their presence is impeding traffic to the point that it is backing up behind them. And wtf is this about a peloton being considered "one vehicle"? That is ludicrous. If I'm in a line of cars can we be considered one vehicle too? Please?

Obviously cars need to obey the laws as well.

http://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/...es-295x600.jpg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UrgpZ0fUixs

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Originally Posted by Deebased

Why should cyclists ever be able to ignore the rules of the road?

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I never said they should be able to ignore the rules of the road. Unless you have never exceeded a speed limit, or rolled a stop sign, you are just another self center douche this thread is railing against.

Can't speak for other states but in CA bicycles are subject to all the rights, rules and restrictions that cars are except where naturally applicable, i.e. can't do the speed limit, so Ice's comment is stupid as shit. They are required to ride as far to the right as is safe, so if safe means middle of the road, then they are 100% entitled to the middle of the road.

If bicycles blow a stop sign or light, they can get a ticket. That said, a Dutch friend of mine once commented on how Americans are so mind controlled that they will wait at a red light at 2 AM with no cars insight. No self respect Dutchman would. Same with pedestrian crosswalks...Americans will wait for that stupid will walk figure to appear even if there is no car insight...do that in Europe and you will get trampled.

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Originally Posted by iceman

People should simply be considerate, it's not that hard. Ride single file and towards the right in areas with narrow roads and poor sightlines. Cars pass when you can see what's coming. It's the assholes on both sides who cause the issues. Don't be an asshole.

With that said, if bikes want to be considered vehicles they need to obey the rules of the road. This includes stopping at stop signs and lights, and pulling off the road if their presence is impeding traffic to the point that it is backing up behind them. And wtf is this about a peloton being considered "one vehicle"? That is ludicrous. If I'm in a line of cars can we be considered one vehicle too? Please?

Obviously cars need to obey the laws as well.

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Since when do motorists stop for stop signs and red lights? Or pull over when they're impeding traffic?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...stockton-video

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Originally Posted by iceman

People should simply be considerate, it's not that hard. Ride single file and towards the right in areas with narrow roads and poor sightlines. Cars pass when you can see what's coming. It's the assholes on both sides who cause the issues. Don't be an asshole..

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Icemang nails it. Again.

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Originally Posted by iceman

People should simply be considerate, it's not that hard. Ride single file and towards the right in areas with narrow roads and poor sightlines. Cars pass when you can see what's coming. It's the assholes on both sides who cause the issues. Don't be an asshole.

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Most considerate thing you can do is to help prevent an accident. Sometimes that looks like an asshole move but it is what it is. Making room for an unsafe pass when sightlines are inadequate is stupid because it communicates the wrong thing to motorists. I think most people do know the difference between moving left to be clear and visible when passing isn't safe anyway versus just holding the lane like any jackass left-lane camper, but the whiners make me wonder.

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Originally Posted by snoqpass

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...stockton-video

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That's hard to watch, but wrong thread man.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

^This.

I don't ride road, I ride dirt.

Unfortunately, road weenies (an affectionate term :wink:) have a bad wrap around here because some are inconsiderate and break the road rules. Blow thru lights, stop signs, etc. They also do not understand how hard it is for some people to pass them safely. Not everyone is 25yrs old with perfect 20/20 vision and reflexes to maneuver around a group of people.

Bikers are on vacation. Many drivers are working and have deadlines and other concerns going on much more important.

When I see a biker on the other side of the road I move way over to give the vehicles trying to pass the biker some room. I make every effort to give the weenies as much room as possible, but I still think a bunch of them are assholes...some I know are assholes because I know them personally. :)

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Holy shit, where to begin?

Do you not see how entitled you sound? I don't think you're an asshole, but this post is exactly what you're complaining about.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

They also do not understand how hard it is for some people to pass them safely. Not everyone is 25yrs old with perfect 20/20 vision and reflexes to maneuver around a group of people.

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The road is for everyone, including old dudes with bad vision. You're aren't really saying that people should defer to your less-than-optimal driving capabilities, are you? Be thankful states haven't said you have to be physically capable to drive including having corrected vision, appropriate reflexes and good judgement. That would clean up the roads pretty quick.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

Bikers are on vacation. Many drivers are working and have deadlines and other concerns going on much more important.

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Hahaha, play that out and see how it works:

"But, officer, I was just driving to the trailhead to ride!"
"Sorry, sir, you know roads are only for people working...try to keep it after 6pm. Oh shit, there's an RV, gotta go give him a ticket! Drive safe!"

Bikers are on vacation?!?
Commuters aren't, but, even so, who gives a fuck why people are out? They don't have to explain themselves. States don't limit access based on how (self-)important people's use of the road is.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

When I see a biker on the other side of the road I move way over to give the vehicles trying to pass the biker some room. I make every effort to give the weenies as much room as possible, but I still think a bunch of them are assholes...some I know are assholes because I know them personally. :)

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I'm happy that you give space to riders. I wish everyone did. I'm only calling you out because I want to point out that it is easy to dismiss "they" "them". There's been a lot of that in this thread. I'm sure that you are more forgiving that this post sounded. Like you, most riders are drivers too.

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Originally Posted by iceman

People should simply be considerate, it's not that hard. Ride single file and towards the right in areas with narrow roads and poor sightlines. Cars pass when you can see what's coming. It's the assholes on both sides who cause the issues. Don't be an asshole.

With that said, if bikes want to be considered vehicles they need to obey the rules of the road. This includes stopping at stop signs and lights, and pulling off the road if their presence is impeding traffic to the point that it is backing up behind them. And wtf is this about a peloton being considered "one vehicle"? That is ludicrous. If I'm in a line of cars can we be considered one vehicle too? Please?

Obviously cars need to obey the laws as well.

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yep

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Originally Posted by jono

Most considerate thing you can do is to help prevent an accident. Sometimes that looks like an asshole move but it is what it is. Making room for an unsafe pass when sightlines are inadequate is stupid because it communicates the wrong thing to motorists. I think most people do know the difference between moving left to be clear and visible when passing isn't safe anyway versus just holding the lane like any jackass left-lane camper, but the whiners make me wonder.

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This is where I always wonder if people should be required to bike before they are allowed to drive.
A lot of the reactions from drivers occur because they don't understand the actions and motivations of legally riding people. And it's inconvenient for them.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

That's hard to watch, but wrong thread man.

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Someone was wondering why Americans don't jaywalk

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Originally Posted by snoqpass

Someone was wondering why Americans don't jaywalk

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Oh.

So aside from cyclists you can add wildly disproportional police response?

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

Holy shit, where to begin?

Do you not see how entitled you sound? I don't think you're an asshole, but this post is exactly what you're complaining about.



The road is for everyone, including old dudes with bad vision. You're aren't really saying that people should defer to your less-than-optimal driving capabilities, are you? Be thankful states haven't said you have to be physically capable to drive including having corrected vision, appropriate reflexes and good judgement. That would clean up the roads pretty quick.



Hahaha, play that out and see how it works:

"But, officer, I was just driving to the trailhead to ride!"
"Sorry, sir, you know roads are only for people working...try to keep it after 6pm. Oh shit, there's an RV, gotta go give him a ticket! Drive safe!"

Bikers are on vacation?!?
Commuters aren't, but, even so, who gives a fuck why people are out? They don't have to explain themselves. States don't limit access based on how (self-)important people's use of the road is.




I'm happy that you give space to riders. I wish everyone did. I'm only calling you out because I want to point out that it is easy to dismiss "they" "them". There's been a lot of that in this thread. I'm sure that you are more forgiving that this post sounded. Like you, most riders are drivers too.

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Oooh...the butthurt is evident. Switch to enduro shorts bro, that spandex is a little too tight man.

The line of kits is not commuting. They're on vacation...maybe for an hour or two...but they're not going anywhere important.

Have some regard for people that are older and have a difficult time passing you. Or get hit? That's common sense.

And yeah, I am entitled to say whatever the fuck I want. But the reality is I'm more aware of giving them space and waiting probably more than the average driver out there. But go ahead and prove my point that roadies are assholes.

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Originally Posted by jono

Most considerate thing you can do is to help prevent an accident. Sometimes that looks like an asshole move but it is what it is. Making room for an unsafe pass when sightlines are inadequate is stupid because it communicates the wrong thing to motorists. I think most people do know the difference between moving left to be clear and visible when passing isn't safe anyway versus just holding the lane like any jackass left-lane camper, but the whiners make me wonder.

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I'm sure you agree that bicyclists should pull over and stop in order to allow a line of cars to pass when in these "no pass zones" both because it would be considerate and because it is the law in most states?

I'm sure you are aware that this basically NEVER happens? (Yes, I'm aware that sometimes vehicles don't do this either, but often they do, and I've never seen a cyclist do this, ever.)

What do you propose as a solution?

Because the problem I see is the same entitlement that allows bikers to blow stop signs and red lights (which I really don't care about if there is no danger) stems from the cyclist wanting to save time and effort... except on these narrow/twisting/noshoulder roads with traffic backed up behind them, it is all about saving their time and their effort at the expense of others. This is a commentary on the personalities of the cyclists who choose to bike these types of roads in the first place.

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Originally Posted by hutash

That said, a Dutch friend of mine once commented on how Americans are so mind controlled that they will wait at a red light at 2 AM with no cars insight. No self respect Dutchman would. Same with pedestrian crosswalks...Americans will wait for that stupid will walk figure to appear even if there is no car insight...do that in Europe and you will get trampled.

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Are civil violations a lucrative revenue stream for local governments in Yurp the way they are here? Even at 2 AM I'd never trust a cop here to not ticket me for running a red light.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

Oooh...the butthurt is evident. Switch to enduro shorts bro, that spandex is a little too tight man.

The line of kits is not commuting. They're on vacation...maybe for an hour or two...but they're not going anywhere important.

Have some regard for people that are older and have a difficult time passing you. Or get hit? That's common sense.

And yeah, I am entitled to say whatever the fuck I want. But the reality is I'm more aware of giving them space and waiting probably more than the average driver out there. But go ahead and prove my point that roadies are assholes.

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For real, you shouldn't be behind the wheel if your reflexes are crappy enough that you feel you pose this kind of threat to others.

Fuck it bring back Death Race 2000
http://terrortroop.com/wp-content/up...4/03/Death.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sirshredalot

For real, you shouldn't be behind the wheel if your reflexes are crappy enough that you feel you pose this kind of threat to others.

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Wow. You guys are fucking morons.

I'm talking about the general driving public, not me personally.

fuck, we need a bike off...but in the dirt, not some sidewalk that a two yr old can ride down.

Road riding = for old people that cannot ride dirt.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

Oooh...the butthurt is evident. Switch to enduro shorts bro, that spandex is a little too tight man.

The line of kits is not commuting. They're on vacation...maybe for an hour or two...but they're not going anywhere important.

Have some regard for people that are older and have a difficult time passing you. Or get hit? That's common sense.

And yeah, I am entitled to say whatever the fuck I want. But the reality is I'm more aware of giving them space and waiting probably more than the average driver out there. But go ahead and prove my point that roadies are assholes.

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you're assuming i'm a roadie

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Originally Posted by snoqpass

Someone was wondering why Americans don't jaywalk

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is this a rural thing?

cuz it sure isn't an urban thing in the US...jaywalking is essential to getting around in NYC, Boston, DC, SF


OTOH, i've watched pedestrians waiting on a crosswalk sign at midnight in helsinki

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Originally Posted by Summit

I'm sure you agree that bicyclists should pull over and stop in order to allow a line of cars to pass when in these "no pass zones" both because it would be considerate and because it is the law in most states?

I'm sure you are aware that this basically NEVER happens? (Yes, I'm aware that sometimes vehicles don't do this either, but often they do, and I've never seen a cyclist do this, ever.)

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I have, so now what?
we have an N=2, but it's still just generalization

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Originally Posted by strawjack

Wow. You guys are fucking morons.

I'm talking about the general driving public, not me personally.

fuck, we need a bike off...but in the dirt, not some sidewalk that a two yr old can ride down.

Road riding = for old people that cannot ride dirt.

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Most serious mtb riders also dabble in road to get their mileage in, and to keep strength and fitness up during the offseason, just FYI.

Most of my road riding experience is as a commuter in an urban environment. I get too bored on the skinny-tired bike.

If you'd like a bike-off, I'd be happy to give you a follow on strava or toe the line with you in an enduro cup race or regional super d. I'm not phenomenal, but I'm a solid rider. I get the impression you'd be in a different age class from me anyhow: maybe you should think about your reflexes and your eyesight and whether they are still good enough to get behind the wheel.

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Originally Posted by acinpdx

I have, so now what?
we have an N=2, but it's still just generalization

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I contend "basically never" which is very rarely.

Do you disagree with that? Are you saying it is merely rare? uncommon? Or do you find it to be common?

Someone mentioned Dunfree still hangs out here in the bike forum? Has he weighed in yet?

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Originally Posted by Summit

I'm sure you agree that bicyclists should pull over and stop in order to allow a line of cars to pass when in these "no pass zones" both because it would be considerate and because it is the law in most states?

I'm sure you are aware that this basically NEVER happens? (Yes, I'm aware that sometimes vehicles don't do this either, but often they do, and I've never seen a cyclist do this, ever.)

What do you propose as a solution?

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If you've never seen a cyclist pull out of the way and let cars go past you might not be watching for bikes. I see that much more often than cars/motorhomes pulling over. It looks a little different sometimes, because being narrower a bike often has a way to pull into a narrow spot and coast along while the cars go by. If they don't have such a space then often the safest thing is to impede traffic for a moment while proceeding to the next such location. Same thing applies to other vehicles. Whether it's the law depends on location, whether it makes sense is a safety thing and I'll defer to whoever's ass is on the line on that one.

No one cares about people rolling through a stop sign or a red light when it's safe to do so (and no one is in a better position to decide that than a biker/pedestrian). Anyone who brings that up is just looking for an irrelevant excuse for their outrage. In Idaho the law actually reflects this and it's pretty refreshing (even though I don't ride on pavement much).

Even during the chaos of a Super Bowl Celebration, Seattle refuses to jaywalk.

Referenced by the President of the United States in a speech on 5/21/2014.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo4z77OvznU

Mt favorite part of the video is the one guy who's so excited with himself for running out into the street.

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Originally Posted by strawjack

Wow. You guys are fucking morons.

I'm talking about the general driving public, not me personally.

fuck, we need a bike off...but in the dirt, not some sidewalk that a two yr old can ride down.

Road riding = for old people that cannot ride dirt.

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Challenge accepted

Despite all this bitching I have to add one thing. The US needs more cobblestone roads.

Rigid bikes + nice weather + cobblestone roads + sundresses = views that do not suck