Dude, don't "lean" in any direction. Step one, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Contact an environmental testing company, get instructions and pricing for collecting sample. Scrape ceiling, get it tested. Don't put the cart before the horse.
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Dude, don't "lean" in any direction. Step one, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Contact an environmental testing company, get instructions and pricing for collecting sample. Scrape ceiling, get it tested. Don't put the cart before the horse.
oh, yeah, we are going to get it tested first (assistance from BrokeSomeRibs), and if it's not asbestos, we'll scrape. But if it is, drywall is the likely choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Getting closer to pulling the trigger on remodel, have some questions re building permits.
One contractor we may use is not licensed in our city, so we'd have to pull the permit, though he's willing/able to handle the inspections (we know because he's done the same for friends). I do trust the contractor to a good/professional job and do things to code. Wondering what y'all think about whether or not to pull a permit, how that impacts the job, do inspectors go all over the house and make you fix everything that's not code, will it cost a shitton, how will it affect resale or insurance, etc. What's the risk of not pulling a permit?
For the record, our remodel does not include anything like a physical addition to the house, or adding a bathroom, or anything like that. It does however include taking out a wall, changing one window, possibly creating a bedroom (but I'm only mildly concerned about not claiming it as a bedroom on the MLS if we sell the house, we're not doing it to add $$ to the house value).
in my state:
- a professional stamp is needed to change structural openings
- a homeowner may pull a permit only if they're doing the work themselves (inspectors/City are getting more suspicious re: these situations near us)
ask these questions at your local building dept before signing up for a particular strategy
inspectors are NOT allowed to just go open season on the rest of the house (that doesn't always stop them, but you can at least challenge them if they stray with reasonable arguments to re-focus them). Existing conditions are usually grandfathered until the next permit is pulled affecting that condition. There are exceptions; check with your jurisdiction.
the strategy you propose shouldn't affect your resale in any way as long as you have the appropriate permits and the work is quality (and the layout/design too)
Tell him to go get a license. Yeah, you could hire him, but you're hiring him as a subcontractor since your name will be on the permit as the GC. If the shit hits the fan, you're the GC, and you'll be responsible. Does he have insurance?
And how do you know he'll do things to code? Did you just get some warm-fuzzy feeling that told you, "Yeah, this guy is legit and he'll do things to code even though he doesn't have a license."
If you do hire him, his fee should be significantly less since his liability is significantly less.
And no, inspectors don't go all around the house and make you "fix" everything that may not up to current code standards. They'll only be concerned with the remodel and how it ties into the existing structure.
well, he's licensed in 3 other jurisdictions. It's not like he's just a dude we found on the street. He's fully insured. As for the code stuff, he assured us that he would build to code, and like I said he did a very similar job for friends of ours here, without issue (they pulled the permit, he did the work and handled the inspections). I suppose if we are risky and don't pull a permit at all, I don't have true assurance the he'll do the same job as he would if did pull the permit, but I'm fairly confident that his attention to detail would be the same.
Here's the thing Danno....if this guy is licensed in three other jurisdictions, and he is a legitimate business man, then he should go get a license in Boulder, especially since it sounds like he is doing repeat work there. So to me, that is a red flag.
Yeah, for moving a wall, and maybe "changing" a window...you're probably going to be OK. As a guy who works in construction defect, I see things when the shit does hit the fan, so I personally would do things by the book, but that's just me.
I'm just thinking this guy says to knock out a wall, doesn't realize that the wall is structural, or there is something in the wall that was unexpected and then that demo causes damage to your home, and his insurance doesn't cover it becasue he didn't pull the permit and he's not licensed; now you're stuck with the bill and the clean up mess. I don't know, I guess I worry too much.
No, I hear you, I need to think all of this through. I know your background and so I wouldn't have expected you to have a different answer, but it's good to hear this stuff. Because asking friends who did work or had work done on their house, they all say "eh, I didn't get permits", so I need to hear the other side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
Our friends did take out a wall, and got a letter from a structural engineer re their permit, FWIW.
I'd be extremely reluctant to hire a general contractor for a fairly major remodeling project if he wasn't able to take the project from start to finish. I'd want to do nothing more than agree to a design, write some checks, and then take the keys back when the work was finished. If your guy isn't able to do that then you ought to find a different guy. That is, unless you're saving enough by using him to justify acting as your own GC on the job and treating him as a subcontractor. Technicalities don't bother me on some stuff, but your house is likely to be your single greatest asset. As such, you owe it to yourself and your family to try to complete a project like this one by the book.
Hey, at least one of your friends who had work done on their house said "I got a permit, and I would advise you to do the same if anything structural, plumbing or electrical is involved" (which, as I understand it, would be the case). And I echo the concerns about using someone who does work in Boulder repeatedly but isn't willing to get licensed here. Raises some red flags for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Everyone seems to just be thinking about resale value with permits, but you really should think about insurance coverage too. Unpermitted remodels/repairs are a great way for the insurance company to try to avoid paying claims.
Obviously every state and every building department is different, but we had an out of town architect (personal friend) and engineers do the plan, we pulled the permit, then got a couple of bids and hired a licensed contractor. Pulling the permit was a huge pain in the ass--multiple trips to the building department, revisions to plans, took a couple of months. This was for a fairly complex but small bathroom/storage space/office addition outside the footprint of the house. Local professionals know what the local building department wants and the building department trusts them (or not). My advise is if you're going to pull a permit hire a local contractor who will pull the permit. I'm too lazy to go back in this thread and find out who did your plans. Can they pull the permit? If you have a local architect or engineer they might be able to do it.
this sounds like your painting dude.... "friends used him & said it was all good". You are a slow learner danno...
Ha, it does doesn't it. It's not the same though. We've seen the work these guys do, all custom cabinetry, and our friends checked every reference of theirs before hiring them. There's many more details that make this different, but I don't feel the need to convince you. And that prior experience has not been forgotten or ignored.
As a licensed and insured contractor, I'm usually a "get a permit & use a licensed contractor" guy. That said, I increasingly see the whole process getting less about protecting the homeowner from substandard work and more about a money grab and power play from the permitting authority.
I've got a stack of "business licences", "contractor licences" etc. in my office that amount to nothing more than a receipt for a tax I paid. I scanned Boulder's website and it seems like quite a bit of work to get their licence. I often autonomously out to the building department to ask if a permit is required and often get a "it would be nice" type of response instead of referencing me to some documentation listing the specific type of work as permitting required.
I may have missed it but what is the exact scope of work? In a lot of ways, the permit protects the contractor. While I've got a couple decades experience is this game and know the codes pretty well, ultimately it is up to the interpretation of the on the job inspector. If the inspector says "you must do XXX", then I can just say OK and bill the customer. The signed inspection card pretty much says I did it right.
Another thing, and this goes to all customers. What you want is "A certificate of insurance listing you (the homeowner) as insured and the property address on the certificate". You can also request either a copy of there workers comp or "Workers Comp Waiver".
this thread should deliver lots of entertainment I can't waitQuote:
Originally Posted by jamesp
I got nothing going on this winter, would love to come down and do your remodel for you, I got no insurance or license, since that doesn't matter we're off to a good start, I got lots of references and you can come look at some of my past work if needed, just poured 20 yards of concrete yesterday and I"m real good at drywall too, so I'm pretty sure I can hang cabinets and wire up lights for you
Foggy, as always, appreciate the thoughts/advice, the beer tally I owe you is growing. The scope of work is fully gut the kitchen, take out the wall separating kitchen and living room (thought to be non-load bearing but obviously that will be confirmed), and put in new kitchen (island, cabinets, flooring, etc), moving a few appliances and associated stuff (changing stove to gas, moving fridge, moving dishwasher) as well as can lighting in kitchen and living room, and do something with the pesky popcorn ceiling. The job also involves making one window smaller so that cabinets can run all the way to the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Will also be doing 2 bathroom guts that back up to each other, including moving one wall and the plumbing associated, and moving one toilet. May use a different contractor for that job because we may not be able to afford this guy (contrary to what some here think, he's very reputable, he just isn't licensed in my city for the reasons you mention).
Holy shit, Danno. That's an extensive remodel. Sounds like $60k or more worth of work. You gonna move out during this process?
Yeah, it's a lot. We're trying to keep it to that number, not sure how successful we'll be. We won't be moving out for the kitchen, at least that's the current plan, figure that with working bathrooms and a makeshift kitchen (setting the fridge up somewhere, microwave, toaster oven, etc) we can manage. The bathrooms, well, we're hoping that the time that both bathrooms are down is minimized, but I don't see any way around that one, we will have to stay somewhere else for at least a week or two.
Jesus, that's a hell of a lot more that you initially described. Oh, and those "pesky popcorn ceilings" may contain asbestos; need to get that checked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
in my neck of the woods, using a thoughtful GC
gutting a full bath is >35k
gutting a kitchen is >80k
(+ jurisdictional fees & professional fees, if any)
obviously there are ways to save under those numbers but they typically involve cheap (not "modest", but downright cheap) materials and methods.
your area may vary hugely from that...just an n=1 fyi
Full kitchen plus TWO bathrooms for less than sixty and only out of the house for two weeks?
++++VIBES++++
we will probably fail on all accounts. it's a dream.Quote:
Originally Posted by RootSkier
I dunno, I recently got a bid for my kitchen at 40k and that was basically taking it to the studs and starting over (number didn't include appliances though). Then I just tacked a complete bathroom (not the master cuz that's looking more like 25k for us) remodel onto a larger project and it cost us 10k with a nice big frameless shower and a good bit of tile work. I know it varies a lot but 60k for the projects he's talking about is probably not a completely unrealistic number, though obviously on the low end of realistic.
I did kinda chuckle about the "week or two" part on the bathrooms, but if everything goes according to plan it's, at least, possible. Isn't it?
2 baths + a kitchen sounds like 3-4mos of work assuming lead times for various things are reasonably thought outQuote:
Originally Posted by Danno
I agree. But the 2 jobs will be done separately and we think we can live here during the kitchen remodel. And for some of the bathroom remodel, though how much is questionable.Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
you can do it, but it won't be pleasantQuote:
Originally Posted by Danno
I've done it too and it saved us thousands in rent that we could put towards better materials
temp kitchen with microwave, maybe plug-in single burner & use the grill outside
make sure you have access to a utility sink or large sink for cleanup
move fridge to a common space not in the way
&
you'll still eat out more than you want
^This. You NEED to have these documents in hand before any work is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
I used to work as controller for a commercial mechanical contractor (licensed in 17 states), licensing processes vary wildly by locale. They are a HUGE pain in the ass. I can fully understand a contractor not wanting to comply with local licensing requirements for a few jobs. I would also not hire an unlicensed contractor. You are at the mercy of the inspector, in general the inspector does not like people coming in from out of the area doing work. Just my experience.
well, we're moving forward. we do intend to pull a permit, whether by us or have the contractor get licensed.
What the hell does "pull a permit" mean? Been doing this shit for fifteen years and never heard such lingo.
My advice: take out the wall. Your contractor is right, two feet of wall vs. six same shit. Hire fastfred for the popcorn ceiling. He may be uninsured and sketchy, but he'll take the pesky out of that popcorn. Just make sure you pay him. I wouldn't recommend stiffing that guy.
And what Rootskier said: Vibes.
Attachment 170451
Living in a construction site es no Bueno
10 k and I'll scrape all the ceilings on the first floor, I'll take the wall out for free, if you want to live there while I'm working it's an extra 1k plus you'll be only able to live upstairs and you'll need to get in and out on a ladder for the week we're there, if it's got asbestos in it it'll cost you an extra 100 bucks and we'll put all the trash in your car and drive it out to the dads landfill out by the airport for proper disposalQuote:
Originally Posted by twodogs
post your email address so I can send you all my certificates of authenticity to guarantee that I know what I'm doing, best 10k you'll ever spend and if you want me to drywall and texture your ceiling it'll be another 5k (level 5 drywall certified bro) by the time I'm actually done with you, you might have enough money left to install a kitchen sink and thats about it
Weird. That's the lingo that everyone uses. I hear it over and over, that's why I used it.Quote:
Originally Posted by twodogs
Good luck and godspeed, Danno! Be sure to keep us updated as things start to suck. Remodeling is not pleasant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
Some of you guys either have really expensive tastes in interior finishes or you are getting rolled. Off the top of my head, here are some estimates for a "high end kitchen"
Cabinets $10K
Level 4 Granite $5K
Flooring $3K
Tile Splash $2K
Appliances $5K
Plumbing Trim $3K
Were does the extra $50K go? Even @ $75/hr. bid rate $30K will get you 10 man weeks of labor. It's a fuckin' kitchen not the Taj Mahal.
If you want to spend $80K on a kitchen that's your business, I know it happens and plenty of people are happy at that price. Understand that price does not equal quality.
Maybe I'm underestimating the average dentist salary but I've been in plenty of ya'lls houses and I've yet to see one that justifies an $80K kitchen.
Vibes if you feel like you "need" a $2.5K Franke farmers sink.
Danno, cost control is all about your interior finish schedule. The problem you have right how is you probably don't have the ability to figure out "how much it costs" on your own. Tell the GC of your choice that you'll pay him for his time to develop a comprehensive estimate and go from there.
HA! I wish! Much of that depends on where you live. Yes, in places like Texas where the granite is cheap and plentiful, as is the labor, sure. I'd maybe agree with you. As I've been remodeling in Montana though, I was in for quite the sticker shock. I've been quoted at nearly $20-30k for MID-level cabinets. Had to skip the nice beveled joints and go with cheaper woods and cheaper construction just to get it down to that. I thought it'd be like $20k for the HIGH end cabinets. Nope. I thought I'd have my kitchen remodeled by now, but when it was all said and done, I just haven't been able to swing it yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
I've remodeled two condos and now ONE bathroom in my house and every time, I still can't get over the costs...and that's with me doing the vast majority of the work myself. Labor costs are retarded up here too, and generally for totally crap quality. I do miss having a plethora of skilled laborers on-hand. Always had plenty of friends who "had a cousin" who was a kick-ass tile layer and such. Hookups were abound. Labor was cheap. Materials were far less expensive. No such luck here. Then again, I think half the problem is that all the businesses in Bozeman have plenty of business so they have the attitude that they can charge whatever the hell they want to, and "Oh, you're in Big Sky? Well in that case the price is double."
So yeah, it all depends on where you live. I have a feeling Boulder's no better than here on that front. FML. :(
Yep, same where I live for everything. "O you live in Coronado"? 30% you must have money surcharge.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
I was recently quoted $12,000 CAD pesos for kitchen cabinets, but that was for small (100" x 70") L-shaped kitchen, cheapest option on everything, not including counters.
Austin, you seem like a smart, rational guy so I'm not gonna call BS on your numbers. Yes, there are regional differences. Yes, Big Sky is probably expensive. No, Boulder is not the same because it is 45mins. up the road from Brown Town.
I have no idea what a beveled joint is. What do you consider mid-level? Full plywood box, dove-tail draws, full overlay, maple etc.?Quote:
I've been quoted at nearly $20-30k for MID-level cabinets
Have you called
1
32.48 Miles
SIMKINS HALLIN LUMBER
326 BROADWAY
BOZEMAN, MT 59715
Phone: (406)586-2653
They are an AristroKraft dealer which I consider mid-grade. If they are marking them up an extra $5K over someone in Denver/Salt Lake etc., tell them to get fucked. Order your cabinets from somewhere else and profit.
Get all your materials on site, pay me $55/hr. plus a per diem and I'll be there in January to install.
We're definitely fearful of getting the "Boulder upcharge". One guy quoted us $130k for the kitchen and 2 bathrooms. A big local design-build firm (we knew they'd be expensive, only contacted them because a neighbor works for them) said they couldn't do the job for under $100k. Guys we've picked for the kitchen quoted us a range, we haven't hammered out the final details, of 40-46k. They do all of their own custom cabinetry. Probably going with someone even cheaper for the bathrooms.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
Haha. So true. Really pisses me off that it seems that most people I encounter in Bozeman don't seem to comprehend that Big Sky is NOT the Yellowstone Club, and that most year round residents are NOT rich. In fact, I live in about the most affordable area there, yet people sure seem to want to quote me like I'm freaking Bill Gates.Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2ski
I've given up on using contractors for the most part after multiple absolutely absurd estimates. Since I've lived here, I've been forced to learn a LOT of new skills, which is a good thing in the end, but still annoyed on how businesses have treated me. You should see salespeople's eyes light up the moment they find out where I live. I keep having to remind that no, I am far from rich and would like to see some of their more "affordable" offerings (really mid-grade), at which point their attitudes visibly change and they can't get rid of me quick enough. Funny seeing them go from "I could care less about you or your business" to "HELL YEAH! LET'S DO THIS!" right back to "Get out of my store, you not-rich person" within the span of about 10 minutes.