PSA: Mount your own fucking skis.

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Originally Posted by nb1234

Here's a sketch of what I'm talking about. Obviously, the arcs I drew for the edge radius is very exaggerated, but you should be able to get the point.

In this case the scribe lines actually intersect - so you can connect the intersection points and get the actual center line (shown in red.)

Depending how you set up your scribe, it's also possible that the two scribe lines don't intersect. If they're close enough you can simply find the middle of the "gap" between the two for the center line, or readjust the scribe and do it again so they do intersect.


http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800...ap_730X550.jpg

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Interesting method, might try that this season.

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Originally Posted by COBuckeye

Since this thread has some good mounting info and is the most recent mounting thread that is not "where should I mount my _____", I figured it would be a good place to ask this question:

If you clamp your ski to the drill press/workbench/table this will decamber the ski. If you drill the ski in the decambered state will this cause problems? If yes, what is the best way to drill so as to not decamber the ski?

Apologies for the nerdy jong question, but I couldn't find this in any of the other mounting threads.

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In addition to what others have said, it's not really necessary to clamp the ski at all when using a drill press. Just make sure everything is lined up right and hold onto the ski - the little drill bit you're using won't cause it to go anywhere.

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Originally Posted by nb1234

If you're replying to my post (#153) then no. The problem with drawing 45's and connecting the intersections is that when you flip the combo square to the other edge, you're not sure you're getting it exactly in the same position on the new edge as you had it on the original edge. The "crossing points" in this method could be off of the actual center line.

The method I describe (not mine but is a common technique to find the center line on a surface from two symmetrical edges) has you scribe two lines (at a minimum) down the ski onto the tape - each parallel to the one of the ski edges. The actual ski center line is the middle of the gap between those two lines. You make those two lines close enough together, you get a very precise "boundary" of where the actual center line is - more than close enough to then align your template.

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With this method you still have to start the scribe lines from the same point along the length of each edge, and use the same measurement in on the square right? Just trying to wrap my head around it.. sounds like it's worth a shot this season.

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Originally Posted by nb1234

If you're replying to my post (#153) then no. The problem with drawing 45's and connecting the intersections is that when you flip the combo square to the other edge, you're not sure you're getting it exactly in the same position on the new edge as you had it on the original edge. The "crossing points" in this method could be off of the actual center line.

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Just thought I'd add a slam-dunked sketch to show this potential train wreck scenario:

Attachment 122359

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nb1234

Here's a sketch of what I'm talking about. Obviously, the arcs I drew for the edge radius is very exaggerated, but you should be able to get the point.

In this case the scribe lines actually intersect - so you can connect the intersection points and get the actual center line (shown in red.)

Depending how you set up your scribe, it's also possible that the two scribe lines don't intersect. If they're close enough you can simply find the middle of the "gap" between the two for the center line, or readjust the scribe and do it again so they do intersect.


http://www.tgrmedia.com/i.ashx?w=800...ap_730X550.jpg

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I really like this method - it's quick, accurate, and no measuring required.

The only think I'd add is that I use a pencil compass/scriber to lay down the marks on my ski. Not sure how you'd use a combo square, but this seems simpler to me.

Something like this: http://www.homedepot.ca/product/penc...scriber/922660

I use folded paper at two points, tape and a long flexible ruler. But this is a drifting thread.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Just thought I'd add a slam-dunked sketch to show this potential train wreck scenario:

Attachment 122359

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Yeah, that does look like a disaster waiting to happen. I used the .pdf centering template on a true bar with a micrometer. Then, once the template was on, I double checked it with the micrometer from the edges. Seemed to work fairly well.

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Originally Posted by alkos

I really like this method - it's quick, accurate, and no measuring required.

The only think I'd add is that I use a pencil compass/scriber to lay down the marks on my ski. Not sure how you'd use a combo square, but this seems simpler to me.

Something like this: http://www.homedepot.ca/product/penc...scriber/922660

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The important part of this method is that the scribing tool you use ensures a fixed distance between the guide that rides along the ski edge and the scribing point. The compass scriber in your link can change angle and that means the scribed line won't be parallel. If you want an "official" tool to do this, a traditional woodworker's marking gauge would be ideal: http://thebestthings.com/newtools/gr...king_gauge.jpg

However, it's easy to make such a thing or to file a little notch along the edge of your combo square in which the xacto/pencil can ride so it doesn't drift side to side. Very important that it doesn't drift. I just happened to suggest a combo square because many folks have such a thing around. It can also be easily made out of a couple of scraps of wood glued/screwed together - one to track to the ski edge and the other with a notch to hold the scribing tool/pencil in a fixed spot. Very low tech, but super accurate.

Also, to avoid marking up your ski tops, just lay down a strip of masking tape - it makes the scribe line easier to see anyway.

Could you mount up a fine tip sharpie instead of the knife?

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Originally Posted by Drewbrese

Could you mount up a fine tip sharpie instead of the knife?

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Sure, but the lines will intersect at very fine angles, so the finer the marker the better. A fine 0.3mm roller-tip pen or fine point mechanical pencil also works great.

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Originally Posted by nb1234

The important part of this method is that the scribing tool you use ensures a fixed distance between the guide that rides along the ski edge and the scribing point. The compass scriber in your link can change angle and that means the scribed line won't be parallel. If you want an "official" tool to do this, a traditional woodworker's marking gauge would be ideal: http://thebestthings.com/newtools/gr...king_gauge.jpg

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That's a good point - I usually eyeball that the compass is coming off the edge at 90degrees relative to the centreline of the ski. I lay down masking tape and scribe a pencil mark that is roughly half the length of the ski - this way any small inaccuracies from twisting of the compass are offset by the general contour of the line. IMO, the tolerances aren't that tight for mounting a ski binding, and this method tends to find the centreline of the ski within 1mm or so.

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Originally Posted by nb1234

Sure, but the lines will intersect at very fine angles, so the finer the marker the better. A fine 0.3mm roller-tip pen or fine point mechanical pencil also works great.

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You're not wrong... but if you're worried about misplacing your mount by 1/2 the width of a fine sharpie and you think you're good enough with a drill to honour that, then good on you.

I used to have a small cheap square that I drilled holes in for pen...worked ok for a while. Then I finally broke down and got one of these for $13...works great--you just need a fine point pen that fits in the holes.

http://www.amazon.com/INCRA-TINYT03-...ref=pd_cp_hi_2

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Originally Posted by Kim Jong-un

I used to have a small cheap square that I drilled holes in for pen...worked ok for a while. Then I finally broke down and got one of these for $13...works great--you just need a fine point pen that fits in the holes.

http://www.amazon.com/INCRA-TINYT03-...ref=pd_cp_hi_2

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Those are nice to have for a lot of things. A mechanical pencil works with them and sanding the point of any pencil also works fine.

Similar to scribing to an intersection, it's quick and accurate to use the end of combination square to simply scribe a series of near-center dashes from both edges beyond both ends of the mounting area, split the difference and use a long straight edge to draw the center line:


Attachment 122586




Attachment 122587

Then double check that you get the same measurement from each edge along the center line.

that's how I've been doing it

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Those are nice to have for a lot of things. A mechanical pencil works with them and sanding the point of any pencil also works fine.

Similar to scribing to an intersection, it's quick and accurate to use the end of combination square to simply scribe a series of near-center dashes from both edges beyond both ends of the mounting area, split the difference and use a long straight edge to draw the center line.

Then double check that you get the same measurement from each edge along the center line.

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^^^Agreed Terry & telemike. I find this way to always be the fastest and most accurate. Scribing arcs, measuring and all that stuff is time consuming and prone to error. The nice part about the INCRA tool is you can get pretty close to scribing two lines that almost touch most of the time with just one pass on each side--making it pretty retard proof for someone like me. And for those of you mounting monoski's there's a 6" version as well with holes spaced every 0.5mm.

And if you do any fine woodwork like dovetailing or cutting veneer you can put a scribe point in the hole, so its useful there as well.

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

You're not wrong... but if you're worried about misplacing your mount by 1/2 the width of a fine sharpie and you think you're good enough with a drill to honour that, then good on you.

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True 'nuf!

I've got no problem with any reasonably fine line marker. Just for reference, though, I did originally try this with a regular (not fine tip) Sharpie way back when, and with those fat lines, it's easy to misjudge the actual intersection enough to be noticeable.

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Originally Posted by Kim Jong-un

^^^Agreed Terry & telemike. I find this way to always be the fastest and most accurate. Scribing arcs, measuring and all that stuff is time consuming and prone to error. The nice part about the INCRA tool is you can get pretty close to scribing two lines that almost touch most of the time with just one pass on each side--making it pretty retard proof for someone like me. And for those of you mounting monoski's there's a 6" version as well with holes spaced every 0.5mm.

And if you do any fine woodwork like dovetailing or cutting veneer you can put a scribe point in the hole, so its useful there as well.

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Using this method is basically the same as scribing arcs, but instead you're only marking a couple of small parts of that arc - which is totally cool, too. With this method (or scribing the whole arc) - there is NO measuring at all. Swipe one edge, swipe the other, connect the two dots, done. (Doesn't hurt to measure to double check, though.)

Just adding another hint. If you swing the arcs, or fold paper, or whatever method you use, make your center points as far apart as you can. Just another way to minimize any small discrepancies.

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Originally Posted by nb1234

Using this method is basically the same as scribing arcs, but instead you're only marking a couple of small parts of that arc - which is totally cool, too. With this method (or scribing the whole arc) - there is NO measuring at all. Swipe one edge, swipe the other, connect the two dots, done. (Doesn't hurt to measure to double check, though.)

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True, but especially on large diameter skis, the 'dots' will look more like 'areas':

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

...simply scribe a series of near-center dashes from both edges beyond both ends of the mounting area, split the difference and use a long straight edge to draw the center line...

Then double check that you get the same measurement from each edge along the center line.

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This is what I do. Good enough tolerances for the exacting level of skill and precision I apply to my skiing. :fm:

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Originally Posted by Shorty_J

This is what I do. Good enough tolerances for the exacting level of skill and precision I apply to my skiing. :fm:

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beaters unite!

I've been needing to get some binding freedom plates mounted, but was having trouble finding someone to do the job. See this thread- http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...dom-Shop-Mount

So, I bought bits for wood and metal skis from Jon/Binding Freedom as well as an awl and wood glue from Home Depot, borrowed a drill from the office and picked up a 1x4 at the local scrap yard today for $1. Total money spent was in the range of $14.

I did a practice run on the 1x4 tonight-

Keetna wondering what I'm up to-
http://i.imgur.com/mI1qZ.jpg

Alright, I mounted the bindings! ...to a 1x4.
http://i.imgur.com/GfGARh.jpg

And, they work just fine with my boots!
http://i.imgur.com/AkDXOh.jpg

I'm feeling pretty good after the test mount. I should have time tomorrow or Friday to do the real job. Will post follow up pics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nb1234

The important part of this method is that the scribing tool you use ensures a fixed distance between the guide that rides along the ski edge and the scribing point. The compass scriber in your link can change angle and that means the scribed line won't be parallel. If you want an "official" tool to do this, a traditional woodworker's marking gauge would be ideal: http://thebestthings.com/newtools/gr...king_gauge.jpg

However, it's easy to make such a thing or to file a little notch along the edge of your combo square in which the xacto/pencil can ride so it doesn't drift side to side. Very important that it doesn't drift. I just happened to suggest a combo square because many folks have such a thing around. It can also be easily made out of a couple of scraps of wood glued/screwed together - one to track to the ski edge and the other with a notch to hold the scribing tool/pencil in a fixed spot. Very low tech, but super accurate.

Also, to avoid marking up your ski tops, just lay down a strip of masking tape - it makes the scribe line easier to see anyway.

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I have a cheap old stanley marking gauge that is the one I find myself using--I have 3--a quiver of marking gauges I guess. But they don't make that anymore--all the ones that I can find are fancy and expensive. If I had a spare cheap wood one I would remove the scribing pin and drill a pencil size hole through it.

Good thread. I'm getting ready to do my first mount with some binding freedom inserts. What is the consensus on DIN/function checks after a garage mount?

In case it hasn't already been said- don't use an awl to pop holes into the topsheet of a metal ski. It worked great for practice into wood yesterday, but the metal in the skis killed the awl on the very first hole today.

Going to have to buy a center punch tomorrow.

...or spend a couple minutes and resharpen the awl on a stone.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

...or spend a couple minutes and resharpen the awl on a stone.

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Noted- I filed down the awl and was able to successfully use it.

So, first ski mount isn't as easy as 1x4 was yesterday.

I need some advice. Here's where I'm at-

-I was able to drill all holes needed in one ski. Went forward with the mount for the ski and screwed the plates on. After screwing plates on, I notice that the plates weren't flush, so I backed the screws out and noticed some small volcanoes. I'm going to plane them down tomorrow. Not super worried about that.

-After I backed the screws out, I realized that one of the holes for the rear plate (a middle hole in the 3x2 pattern for dynalook heal plate) is off by a millimeter or two to the inside. The bit must have wandered while drilling, because I looked at the paper template that I punched through and the punch is on the bullseye. This is causing that particular screw to be driven in at a slight angle.

The plates will sit flush tomorrow after I plane down the volcanoes, but I'm worried that the rear plate might still lift when I drill the screws in because of the screw going in at an angle.

Whats the best way to proceed here?

The skis have some metal in them if that matters. Thanks!

^^^I'd vote to leave it alone if you have enough threads in the ski and its not interfering with the binding.

Btw, on metal tops, don't be afraid to punch a fairly good dimple in the top with the centerpunch. Also spend the $5 for a centerpunch--they are designed to produce a dimple with the same profile as a drill bit--they come in different sizes so get the one that most closely matches whatever size bit you use. An awl is too pointed and will mushroom out the side of the hole. Then the drill bit will be on a small mountain which can make it slip down either side.

To reduce the chances of this happening (especially if I do something like inserts that are less forgiving) I drill a small x/32" hole just slightly into the top, overlay the template again to check location before drilling a bigger hole. Sometimes I put another slightly larger hole in before going in with the main bit.

thanks guys, t-square method seems like a winner, i've been using a ruler and with lots of skis having molded topsheets and angled sidewalls it is sometimes difficult to make sure you are measuring from the same point on each side. Using t-square to get down to the edge is a great way to do it.

i'm sure its been posted before, but what is best way to confirm your 0 line on the ski since top sheets can be off. sometimes i see multiple markings on sidewalls which make it unclear what the recommended mounting point is. For a newbie only mounting a couple sets a year this gets stressful

I'm remounting some 997s on a pair of plastic risers. Looks like the original shop didn't use waterproof glue or anything and just screwed the 997s into the plate. Any problems doing the same? Or should I use some glue? There's something that sketches me out remounting on the plates, even though I know that there probably 10 times stronger to use than the actual ski.

And Kevo, if the screw is only at a small angle I'd try to screw it in and see what happens. I can't see why it wouldn't sit flush assuming its only small amount.

Definitely use some wood glue or epoxy when remounting to keep water out. If you see any damage from seepage make sure you let them dry fully and use epoxy.

I did a plate mount on my first metal top sheet skis and had to use a finish nail to poke thru the metal enough that the bit would not wander. I noticed i was off a bit one the first toe plate I did. I just screwed it in and even though its not perfect the plates sit flush and tight. Definitely less room for error on inserts but the plates are pretty forgiving.

Thanks for the help so far everyone, its really appreciate. Need some more advice please.

I was able to mount the ski in question from yesterday. After planing down the topsheets to remove small volcanoes, the first ski turned out beautifully. Put binders on, and everything is perfect.

Now I'm on to the second ski, and I'm having an issue. The skis have a 3D pattern on the topsheet and the far back hole on the heal plate was lining up dangerously close to a <1mm drop off. One the very last drill of the project, the drill slipped and instead of drilling on top of 3D pattern, it slipped a few mm to the side and drilled half on/half off.

It the top left in the pic (Back left on heal plate) hole in question-

http://imgur.com/OeUm5.jpg

I went ahead and attempted the mount, this time after counter sinking to avoid volcanoes. Had a few even smaller volcanoes than ski one so I was going to pull the plates off to plane the surface anyway, but noticed that I could see threads on this particular screw, likely because the plate is sitting on top the 3D pattern, but the side of the screw is not. The screw also pulls to the outside because of being slightly off center.

How should I proceed at this point? I don't want to fuck anything up any more than they are. Need some maggot wisdom please.

Terry(Alpinord) has a sweet clear plastic scraper with the centerline ruler that I just used for my latest mount. Its all I need.

Oh yeah and make yer own beer too!

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Originally Posted by Kevo

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How should I proceed at this point? I don't want to fuck anything up any more than they are. Need some maggot wisdom please.

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if you have 3 good holes and one only *slightly* off - I'd just put a little JB or regular epoxy down on that 3D pattern area so when you mount the plate the screw is "sealed" in... prob. not going to pull out (and if it does you can redrill bigger and put an insert in there) and if you get the 3 screws in place and tight before sinking the last one, it should line up close enough to fine.

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Originally Posted by jfost

if you have 3 good holes and one only *slightly* off - I'd just put a little JB or regular epoxy down on that 3D pattern area so when you mount the plate the screw is "sealed" in... prob. not going to pull out (and if it does you can redrill bigger and put an insert in there) and if you get the 3 screws in place and tight before sinking the last one, it should line up close enough to fine.

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Thanks for the advice. I used some marine JB weld and it looks pretty good.

Just finished up. Here's what they look like-

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...32023982_n.jpg

Also, I had the midsole of my boot about 7mm in front of the line using Dynalook plates, pivot 14 bindings and 312mm Dynafit Titans while practicing on a 1x4. I moved the template back 7mm for the real mount. The midsole of my titans is now exactly on the manufacturers line. Anyone else noticed similar discrepancies with the paper templates?

Thanks for the advice mags! Its a good sense of accomplishment to mount your own fucking skis!

^ enjoy the Influence...awesome skis, love em.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Also, I had the midsole of my boot about 7mm in front of the line using Dynalook plates, pivot 14 bindings and 312mm Dynafit Titans while practicing on a 1x4. I moved the template back 7mm for the real mount. The midsole of my titans is now exactly on the manufacturers line. Anyone else noticed similar discrepancies with the paper templates?

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pretty sure its not the template, but rather variations boot-to-boot in where the center line is marked and the geometry of the toe where it interacts with the binding. I've also seen boots marked as much as 5mm wrong on the actual BSL.

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Originally Posted by jondrums

pretty sure its not the template, but rather variations boot-to-boot in where the center line is marked and the geometry of the toe where it interacts with the binding. I've also seen boots marked as much as 5mm wrong on the actual BSL.

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Huh, I know skis are often marked incorrectly but I never thought of the boots midsole or bsl being off.. makes sense that it could happen I suppose

^^ Boot wear, swappable soles, and manufacturing tolerances all mean that BSLs are rarely the precise number written on the side of the boot.

In my experience, it's usually within 1 or 2mm, but 5mm is not out of the realm of possibility.

Boot center marks can vary for similar reasons. Tech fittings, especially, are sometimes farther forward or back on the toe of a boot.