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Considering an 04 Summit 800 144" X series or whatever. BRAND new motor. 4k Backup sled of a buddy so its seen very little use. (The motor was actually taken out to put into a different sled mid season-thus the reason for this sled getting a new motor right now...)
Thoughts? This will be my first sled.
Miles? Most Summit 800s have new motors 'cause the old ones blew up.
H.O. motor?Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyJim
If so, you hit that shit. I bought a 2004.5 (05 model available at the end of 2004) last year. That was my second sled last year after first getting an 06 RMK. Best move I ever made. They had some problems with flaking piston rings which is a very easy fix. I replaced mine before I ever took it out on snow. But if you're getting a new motor in it...........
As far as that chassis goes, it's very easy to ride IMO compared to some other sleds out there. I don't know about CO but it seems like everyone around here that uses sleds for skiing ends up on one of these things. And that shorter (by today's standards) track actually makes it really easy to maneuver in trees.
Plus skis fit really easily in the running boards :D
Fixed it for you...Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrelmurphy
Some summit engines blew up due to cranks failing.
This is/was a small percentage of sleds sold.
A more common issue has to do with rings.
The Rev series was very popular as it raised the bar, Ski-doo sold a lot of these sleds. As a result, you heard about it happening more often to these models compared to other manufacture/models.
Not all Rev's had issues with rings.
We have two 04 800/151's that both have over 2000 miles on them with no issue.
The jury has been in for a while....Cats rule.
Oh yeah. JefferyJim and anyone else looking to get a sled. Get used to douchebags who think one brand is always better than the other three. :D
Its personal preference. They ride differently I wouldn't say necessarily that one is vastly superior to the other. The new 'doos are more maneuverable, nimble, light. They require more skill to handle sometimes. Cats are super easy to lay over, boondock and sidehill, but not as nimble or light. Snopro's also come with waaaaaay better stock suspension than summit's do.
I've ridden quite a few sleds, but I like the way the RevXP's handle. As for "new" engines... I just sold my 2007 Summit 800 144" with a new engine, (I had 2 engine warranties on it) and I just warrantied the engine on my 09 summit after 800km... they blow up, welcome to sledding.
Why do you keep buying Ski-Doo when you've grenaded 3 engines in 2 years?
Get a cat, the difference isn't much except you'll ride a lot more considering your engine won't be blown after every third ride. ;)
It never ceases to amaze me how tolerant of exploded motors snowmobilers are, as a group. EVERY time I go into the local SkiDoo shop, there are three or four motors on the bench, with big, ugly holes in them. Yet, somehow, people keep buying them.
Dunno, maybe I'll be OK with motors exploding at some point, but I don't think so. I'm starting to develop a liking for Cats, too - a fair number of people I know ride them with good results.
So far, mine have been reliable (lowly sub-800 SkiDoos - recommended to me because they "don't" blow up). Sure, every motor CAN fail, but it seems that the ones I've got tend not to fail.
Who knows. I ALMOST pulled the trigger on an 08ish RevXP this fall, ehhhh, glad I did not - my sleds certainly have more miles, but they do the trick. If one explodes, though....hrmph.
Iain
I've ridden M8's, turbo'd yammy's, dragons etc, I prefer the way the 'doos handle. Every engine I've blown has been under warranty, without cost to me just missing out on riding time. My buddies riding cats blow engines too, my room-mate blew the engine on his arctic cat within a month of getting it. Tim blew 3 engines on his cat in 1 year. If you ask more of your machine you will break it more often.
I also ride 3-4000km a year. So sure, your engine may blow at 2000km, 3 years after you bought it but I passed the 2000km mark 2-3 months after getting my first sled. I picked up my 09 late last spring and put 800km on it within a month.
I'm also hucking my sled off things, and riding 'mountains', breaking trail etc. Trail riding is much less demanding, as is simple sled skiing.
I've got one word for you.....MODS.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNads
You can make just about any sled handle the way you like with mods..... Sleds are like skis, it's more about rider skill than the tool.
Blowing an engine on a sled within a month of getting it new just tells me someone didn't properly break it in and was abusive.
It's really no mystery to the general public that the summit engine sucks dick and 'nades all the time.
[ame="http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50659"]Who all have had their 800 blow? - SnoWest Forum[/ame]
Repeatedly buying a sled that consistently 'nades on you doesn't seem smart.
And sure, your mileage/kilometers might be up there, but so are mine.
Jumping off shit or what not has absolutely nothing to do with the motor....you'd think if you put so many km on your sled, you really get out there.....in spots where blowing a motor is bad....real bad.
It's situations like that when you really consider what's important....maybe you haven't had that overnighter out in BFE cuz your new sled shit the bed....but for me, that's when it becomes really apparent what's important.
And Nads, we probably wouldn't be having this convo if we got to ride on VP that one day.......unfortunately, my ski-doo shit the bed that week and it wasn't possible.
Maybe some day, now that I have a Cat. :)
edit:Burandt jumped!!!! ack! :)
I've heard Nads has a heavy thumb too.
All snowmachines break, it's a toy.
Woh! Lots of good info. Thanks.
Here is the deal, I come from a *pretty* competitive DH race background (mountain) where breaking shit was just part of the deal. Hell, even now that I'm a washed up guy who "just rides trails" I seem to break a couple hundred dollars of shit a month. (and I know this is nothing in the sled world)
Point is, shit breaks no matter what you are doing...I've accepted this.
The reason going Ski Doo is soooo appealing to me is one of my good buddies is a Ski Doo mechanic and can take care of my sled virtually labor free (so long as I take care of his mountain bike...hehe...good trade eh?)
Anyway, between this and the performance aspect of going Ski Doo it seems like the right call...but I do want reliability so I dunno.
The reason the sled is getting a new motor is like I said, half way through the season they needed to take the motor out of the backup sled (the one I'm buying) to put in one of their crazy high performance hill climb sleds. They are giving me a new motor to complete the sled....mileage on this sled is sub 1000 (I believe...I haven't seen it in person...)
Anyway, all and all it seems like a good buy...and I'm more concerned about "buying right" than anything because come 1 year from now there is a good chance I'll be getting rid of the sled....
/blog
The old rotax HO motors (which is what should be going into this sled) are great motors. They're not the same ones that gonads keeps blowing up. For about TWO model years, they had the piston ring problem mentioned. Some did, others didn't. But like I said......if you're getting a brand new one, it's not an issue.
And yes sleds are like bikes in that if you do your research and keep things in good working order, life is wonderful. That's also a benefit of buying an older one. All the problems are well discovered so you can fix them.
Thought this might be pertinant in the Sled thread. The Snowest sight is taking a dump (gotta pay to use), so everyone is switching to:
www.backcountryrebels.com
It's meh, but why the hell would anyone pay to use the snowest forums.
The wife and I had our lousy unreliable Revs out the other day man do those sleds suck.:rolleyes:
Personally, I'd be kinda pissed if I was missing out on riding time because I was blowing up engines 2 or 3 times a season. It's not something I ever think about with my Nytro. Turn the key and go.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoNads
It's all a trade off i guess. Your Nytro is a powerless pig (no offense), but I'm sure it is reliable. I think the blown motor thing is overinflated with the doos. Plenty of AC's and Poo's with blown motors out there. With all of them you have to stay on top of maintainence. I get the topend rebuilt on any 2 stroke sled I've ever had around 2,000 miles just to cover my ass. Clutches, even more love. Ya, doesn't cover a bad crank, but I'm rock'n the 06' HO, so I'm not to worried. I've ridden M cats and prefer my rev, don't know about the newer poo's but they look nice. I'm sure some day Ski doo will offer Burandt a ton of $$$ then he'll ride a ski doo. Bottom line, doesn't fucking matter just go pull throttle and stay involved in your local travel plans FWIW.Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinn
No offense taken. Yes, it is reliable. Yes, it is heavy and a little down on power from the factory(google says your sled makes less than 20HP more, not really a huge difference). It's nice to be able to spend the money on upgrades instead of having clutches and top ends rebuilt. This season my sled will be 9 inches longer, about 60 pounds lighter and will be making more power.Quote:
Originally Posted by hick
I've ridden all the recent XPs, RMKs and Cats. IMO, nothing handles as well as my sled in pow even in stock trim.
Made the jump as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by hick
Weak sauce on SW...
Yeah, our Rev's suck too. :the_finge
All that sled needs is a turbo, then it'll be worth riding. I can't imagine riding a nytro stock!Quote:
Originally Posted by dfinn
Every sled just depends on what you like to ride. I know people that ride 174's, I know people that ride 128's, 105 hp to 450 hp, (Still don't understand why people buy doo's though, they fly well, but aside from that...) The one thing I can't put up with is an unreliable sled. A nytro is a great sled depending on the terrain that you're riding, but come ride with us... you'd ditch it or buy a turbo in less than a month, I've seen it a number of times.
In the last two years of owning 190 to 280hp sleds for my wife & I, I haven't fixed anything I didn't break. (yeah, I break a lot of stuff, that's life)
btw, those of you that are in CO, http://www.sledmods.com is a good site for local info & none of the consistent retardation that occurs on SW.
A turbo is in the plans but first I'm fixing what yamaha shouldve done at the factory. Suspension, track, weight loss. Impulse turbo next season.
That's why you should always sled with friends, and be prepared for any possible scenario. It doesn't matter what brand of sled you have... everyone I know that rides a lot around here is blowing an engine every year or two. Regardless of whether or not its a 'doo, arctic cat, yamaha or polaris. I dragged 2 cats off the hill last season, and 2 of my own skidoo's, and 1 polaris and 1 turbo yammy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurred
From my experience in riding in Utah, Colorado, Washington, Idaho, nothing quite compares to BC. I've taken boys out riding from Colorado, and even they agreed, this is waaaaay bigger, steeper and you're full pin for much more time, demanding a lot more from your machine.
It's a sled, its going to 'grenade'. Modding it out will most likely increase the odds of this happening. Either everyone I ride with are "complete hacks" who don't know how to break an engine in, or sleds will blow up when you put them through that much abuse... I must be an idiot for riding a skidoo, along with Geoff Kyle (Whos sled is in the shop more than mine, actually), Dan Treadway, Chris Brown, Rob Alford, and most people here in Whistler.
Like I said it's personal preference as to what rig you ride. Don't get all high and mighty about your cat, I've seen plenty of those blow too, and it seems the trend is to get off Arctic Cat for Skidoo or Polaris these days.. if you're Chris Brown or Chris Burandt.
Nads - I saw in a post of yours (your TR in think) you said you were carrying a winch. Is it a hand operated come-along or electric? The new Bearcat Widetracks come with a front and rear receiver and an electric winch. I want one but want to know how practical they are (sometimes not too many trees around).
I like your avatar, A. Very cute. We'll eat you up, we love you so!
Drew, Warn makes a winch that is for sleds, you need a battery though, won't work on my sleds, but I believe it would work on the bearcat.
As for the grenading,
I'm not a brand loyal person, but in riding for a mod shop, when I see a shop have 100's of cat customers and about 1/4 that of doo's, but all the motors in the shop are doos, it makes you think.
When you look at typical engine failure, yes, they all fail, the difference is how. The doos tend to take the bottom end with them & become MUCH more expensive, most of the others are not like that.
If you are looking to get a new sled I would get a cat 1st, skidoo 2nd, and poo 3rd.... Yammie makes a good dirtbike..
If it were me lookin at a sled that is 4 years old or so I would be looking to get a m series cat.. The Skidoos of that era did blow pistons at 1500 - 2500 miles in many cases (pto side every time I have seen it). Belt life has also been a problem with the skidoos as most people just dont set up the belt right.. Then when a skidoo blows a belt it takes tools to replace and is not super easy on the trail.
Get a cat m7 or m8 of the same era and you will have better luck.. STAY AWAY from poo 900's as they blow cranks way more than they should. Or I would never buy a polaris 900 or even ride one if it was given to me.
Now if you got the bucks or want some payments there will be no non boosted sled on the hill that will hang with the 2010 cat m8.. Dyno results are right at 163 or 164 ponies and I have seen her run. If this motor hangs together it be the best 09-10 sled for a mountain application to date..
Nads brant is still a cat guy (i bet he bleeds green) and the word I got is thatcat cut back the money/sleds that brown was getting. Skidoo would help brown more that cat was so he switched over.. It had nothing to do with the sleds and more of the fact that BRP who makes everything from trains to snowmachines had more money to poney up than little ol cat.
Now what I cant understand is why if a snowcross team like skidoo or poo that has 2x or 3x the racing budget/racers of cat just cant hang in the snocross season?? I mean they do OK but I would think that they between the two of them that they could beat a smaller budget team if they had a better sled to race.. Or to put it another way - I will bet a 30 of pbr that tucker will come off the couch, jump on a cat, and win x games easily again... I mean it is only the biggest race of the year and last year I think cat took 3 of the top 5 spots...
This year I have 2 sleds both cats so I will ride one of my mod m1000's. The 09 does run better than the 08 and I am a bigger guy so the extra displacement helps a big guy or someone with 2 people on a sled. I have owned skidoos, m7's,m8's, mg's (m1000's) four strokes, and four stroke turbos this decade. My next will be a 2010 m8 with a pump gas turbo... Yep..
Well I guess that is enough shit talk about sleds for a monday..
Now I hate to brake up the hate/debate fest, but check out my new beats of a sled!!!
Its a 1988 Arctic Cat Cougar fan cooled 500!!!
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f2...9865268229.jpg
I have had very good luck with Cat over the last 8 years. On that note I am selling 2007 M8 153 so I can get a new one. Anyone interested can drop me questions via PM.
I like the new Cat seats, but the seats on the last few years M series are great for hauling skis. You can fit one or two pairs in there and have full rails for ridding and very little chance of getting them hung up when powder riding.
Sorry for the spam, how about some stoke?
Skis in seat after some powder riding...
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1258383764
I have had a lot of face shots skiing, but their is something about the force and longevity of face shots you get on a sled.
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1258383764
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/a...1&d=1258383764
Some serious good sled stoke right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam Skier
As for the rest of this.
Ride what you ride.
Everyones experience and needs are going to be somewhat unique.
What I have works and I'm sticking with it.
If what you ride is working, good on ya, keep on, keeping on...
Seems like there's some serious Yamaha hate here.
As far as straight engine reliability goes, are they not the most reliable?
Only asking because have been looking at a Nytro MTX.
Hate is a strong word.
I know some Nytro MTX owners who are pretty happy with their sleds.
That said, they all have turbos.
From my perspective it's about power to weight ratio.
4 stroke sleds are heavier.
If you're ridding in big terrain it can work against you.
I think it's generally assumed that they are the most reliable out there but the Nytro hasn't really been around that long to really make a claim like that yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico
Personally, I don't understand the hate. I think it's mostly because of the weight issue. A Nytro has about 100lbs on a Rev XP. I've ridden both and the only time you really feel that weight is when your digging it out. If highmarking is your deal and you plan to keep the sled stock you'd probably be better off with something else. For tree riding/boondocking my sled did awesome last year without any mods.
I would say the most reliable of the 4. Also the heaviest so they get alot of slack for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMexico
I think that there old triple 700 (MMax, Viper) is the most reliable 2-stoke motor ever. Lots of high mileage sleds out there still on original pistons.
If highmarking was a priority, I could see how the added weight would be a big concern.
But, as far as sledding to access backcountry ski spots and towing skiers, it seems like the added torque from a four-stroke would be worth the extra weight that comes along with it.
^^^^^^^^
Wait til you bury that fucker for the first time by yourself....
2003 800RMK - 159" - Custom seat - SLP pipe/intake - pretty stock otherwise. Climbs pretty good but i think the new sleds probably handle a bunch better. I haven't really ridden 'em and i'm not sure i want to until i can afford one!
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...13_8182318.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1640195_n.jpg
I felt bad for the poor sled here, but it hauled all our crap to the shelter!
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._7422743_n.jpg
After a bit of research it seems like that sled I have my eye on is a good deal but not a GREAT deal...so, I'm just throwing it out there that if anybody has a line on a 03.5 (rev chassis) or newer Ski Doo Summit (yes, I'm going Ski-Doo) I'm interested.
I'd like it to be in great shape but if it needs work and the price reflects the condition it's in I'd be willing to look at that too...
^ lots of them here:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=231&cat=146
if you're willing to drive a little bit.
This thread is gettin me excited. Just went out and fired up the machine to make sure it still runs! Haven't started it since probably late April or early May. Took a few pulls but she fired up. Man does these stinkin things smoke when they're cold!
I just thought of something. All my backcountry riding to date has been snowboarding, but i'll be doing more skiing this year. I just got a little terrified at the thought of trying to sled in ski boots. How the heck do you guys do that? I guess proper AT boots actually have a little rubber on the bottom, and you can loosen 'em up a bit in tour mode. Still, it's gotta be far from ideal.
I climb around on my sled like a monkey when i'm boondocking around. I'm probably gonna fall off the damn thing if i'm wearing ski boots. I guess i'll find out...
I was wondering the same thing the other day. Beyond that, how do you prevent them from getting shred to shit by the teeth on the running boards?Quote:
Originally Posted by TroySmith80