Brother Caught in Avalanche Today in St. Anton

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Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

The situation was a backcountry crowd - so you have to expect skiers doing all sorts of stupid things above you. Add that to the hunger for powder and race against the others and you have: Human factor = Red.

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The problem with this line of thinking in places like St. Anton is then you basically never would ski pow. It still might be the right answer, but its kinda brutal when you go to someplace to ski amazing terrain and pow and then don't.

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff you already know or have experienced in St. Anton, but for those that haven't been, the whole place has pow feeding frenzy just like in the US, only teeny tiny little difference is its not controlled.

This is something I have definitely struggled with on many occasions in the Arlberg. How to get the goods, while stay safe and out of the path of the many punters over for a week of fun that seriously don't even know they are in dangers way. Its not the same situation as touring in anywhere in the west where you can take a few minutes to dig a pit, or check out the stability. It would be as if you just got to High Boy, Backside, or ... at Alta and decided to dig a pit. Not going to happen, right? Same deal there in many ways. Really tough situation to deal with. With the Wasatch becoming Wasangeles you are having situations closer to this, but at the same time people are all touring, moving slower, and assessing things unlike lift serviced vacationers.

In my trip report from St. Anton this year, I told about a group on a chair asking if it was safe to ski something. Sure enough, not 30 seconds later the slope slid as we rode over it on the chair. They honestly didn't have any clue, much less gear. I'm inclined to think this is the majority, not the minority over there.

I suppose in the end you it predominantly comes down to slope selection, both from a slide danger perspective, but also an a avoid the punter perspective...

Thanks again H- for sharing. Good dialogue.

Thanks for the feed back David. I appreciate it.

In other news, Christoph got the bill for the helicopter rescue today...

5,540 euros.

Christoph bought a rescue card at the beginning of the season for 25 euros for the season so he gets a pass on the rescue bill.

Talk about winning the lottery...

H Man-

Glad to hear everything turned out ok for the best and your brother is doing well. I hope your brother has a full recovery is back out on the slopes in no time.

As a long time St Anton skier, I was very moved by your story and still find parts of it hard to read again as I've skied the same areas. I commend you on a great job of keeping your head and all of your rescue efforts. Nothing should be criticized at all here, the best efforts were put forth.

Enjoy St Anton again as I will be there for a week starting February 17th.

JP

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Originally Posted by H-man

Thanks for the feed back David. I appreciate it.

In other news, Christoph got the bill for the helicopter rescue today...

5,540 euros.

Christoph bought a rescue card at the beginning of the season for 25 euros for the season so he gets a pass on the rescue bill.

Talk about winning the lottery...

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From what I've heard/read, the Helicopter costs around $120 Euros a minute.

I noticed the Arlberg Ski Club in your Avatar. I'm not sure if you are already aware, but as a member of the Arlberg Ski club, part of your membership dues covers any rescue costs. If you are a member, you should have the special club card that details the rescue coverage. I usually get one every year with my membership renewal.

Glad to hear he was covered though!

JP

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Originally Posted by poof100

From what I've heard/read, the Helicopter costs around $120 Euros a minute.

I noticed the Arlberg Ski Club in your Avatar. I'm not sure if you are already aware, but as a member of the Arlberg Ski club, part of your membership dues covers any rescue costs. If you are a member, you should have the special club card that details the rescue coverage. I usually get one every year with my membership renewal.

Glad to hear he was covered though!

JP

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Thanks JP. I have been a member for over 20 years and did not know that.

H-Man,

Didn't think my first post would be in response to this topic. I'm glad you all survived. FWIW i was involved in an Avalanche in St Anton this time last year
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewt...930&highlight=
hope the link works which explains my story and comments.

I returned this year and left the resort on the Saturday before your incident. I had a great week sking backcountry with Instructors and guides, but I did have concerns about how I would feel returning to the resort and doing the same thing again. I can report that I overcame my nervousness, and was much more aware about where I was, what others were doing and probably most importantly talking openly about the risks with the guides and instructors. This gave me huge confidence especially when one dug a snow pit before we skied a particular pitch. As they say once bitten twice shy, and I'm gald your all OK. I certainly learned from my experience and talked about my expereince with others which I hope has opened their eyes.

Bod.

H-Man,

Glad you all got out OK and thanks for the different perspectives it's helped to realize the reality of the situation not just what's in the text books and avi courses.

Selfishly bumping this before heading back to St. Anton. A serious reminder for me. Sorry to cluter the front page.

Good to see your brother is OK. You aren't crowding anything. Very informative thread.

H-man-
I just read your whole narrative for the first time. Thanks for the bump. It was scary and informative. I never thought of the beacon chaos situation, but I can picture it happening someplace like Berthoud Pass where I ski.

Also, here is another reason for me to replace my plastic shovel with a metal one.

H, I'm glad you bumped this. Even after having read this several times, and also having you tell me about it in person, it still gave me chills when I re-read it just now.

By the way, how's Christoph doing? Is he back to full strength and ready to ski this season?

wow that looks worse with the pictures then how you described it...positive vibes your way and to your brother. your replies in the thread make you seem very shaken up but getting all those pictures and how you look in the video make it seem like nothing. props on your part for doing that. nice to look back later and see exactly what happened.

In hind sight wouldnt it had made sense for your group to have dropped the cornice prior to skiing the slope? Especially if the slope had the potential to relase as it did?

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Originally Posted by comish

Sorry if I'm repeating stuff you already know or have experienced in St. Anton, but for those that haven't been, the whole place has pow feeding frenzy just like in the US, only teeny tiny little difference is its not controlled.

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Worth repeating again. I remember talking to an American (ski patroller at that) who asked me if an avalanche fatality was "out of bound" and didn't believe me when I said pretty much everything off the pistes is uncontrolled.

Dropping the cornice could potentially mean dropping it onto another party.

Fascinating read. Thanks for bumping this

Great story & pics - thanks for bumping it...

Probably the best thread I have read at TGR. Thanks for the bump.

Didn't catch this first time 'round. Excellent read. I learned a lot. Thanks. Glad this was a happy ending.

Thanks all.

Sheskis: Christoph is not fully healed unfortunately. The break healed fine but he is still working on tendon and ligament issues in his knee and ankle. He skied a few runs before Christmas and said it just plain hurt. I also think mentally he is far from healed. I fear that may have been his last off piste run.

aussieskier3: It was very strange being there. Huge swings in emotion and control frankly. I went from being proud of myself for being in control to being basically in some state of shock and crying. Most of the pictures were taken by the guide Andy.

Gunder: We never thought of dropping the cornice. In a more remote, backcountry location, this would have been a good idea, but in this actual location I think that Hugh is correct, it would have been to dangerous to drop it due to others in the area. Again though, we never discussed it and probably should have. Hopefully we would have come to the conclusion not to drop it and it most likely would not have changed the outcome, with the exception that the extra time spent discussing it might have caused the other skier to drop it harmlessly. Wow. That is really wild when you think about it. Not that it is a game at all, but talk about a game of inches. Thanks for your comment and promoting additional thought on the issue.

Incredible read. Incredible story!.
Very valuable information gathered.
I now have some great ides for rescue practice scenarios.

Peace H

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Originally Posted by H-man

Sheskis: Christoph is not fully healed unfortunately. The break healed fine but he is still working on tendon and ligament issues in his knee and ankle. He skied a few runs before Christmas and said it just plain hurt. I also think mentally he is far from healed. I fear that may have been his last off piste run.

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I'm sorry to hear he's still working on tendon and ligament issues, though I guess I'm not really surprised to hear it. These kinds of injuries can take a long time to heal, as my husband has related to you about his own crushed leg. I hope he keeps at it and gets past the physical pain so he can enjoy skiing (and other activities he loves) again.

As for the mental healing, I just can't imagine what it's like for him. :( I hope that he finds a way to work through it and can find some peace. Just a thought: Has he tried talking to other people who have survived avalanches? I have no idea how you would track down someone to talk to them, but there must be a way if he thinks he'd want to do that.

Thank you for bumping this. I missed it last year and it is a sobering read and a good reminder of the dangers out there. Best wishes to you and your brother.

surreal accounts from all involved, and tons to take away from this thread. H-Man, glad your brother is ok, and hope he is able to ski pain free again soon (physical & mental). I ski a lot with my brother, and still can't begin to even try and imagine. Thanks for sharing.

Wow... Reading this thread made me register a profile.

I've read some avalanche-stories over the years, but none written and documented like this. Came over it by chance while searching for TR's from the Arlberg area.

Thank you for sharing the experiences you made during and after this tragic incident with your brother. By passing along your experiences like you have, you help people like myself increase their awareness before heading off piste in unfamiliar terrain. I hope this gives you comfort.

I'm heading for my very first trip to St. Anton next Tuesday. Reading this thread has been invaluable.

Sick avy. Glad he's okay