The Trials Of Personal Snow Removal.

I was working on a place in the YC, a gigantic slopeside with ski in/out access. The access off the ski room was on the side pretty close to another gigantic 4th/5th/6th home, and both roofs shed off into that gap. That along with the lack of sun and hillside build just filled that area with about 12 feet of snow. In order to finish the siding in that area we had to do a bucket brigade with two excavators and a front end loader for snow removal.

I'd love to see what it looks like today. There's no way anybody can keep that clear by hand for the ski in/out access.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I have no realistic way to clear the upper roof. Local building code says house should have been designed for about 140# per square foot snow load, minimum, so just gonna have to hope it holds up. Guesstimating about 6-7' deep on the roof in the deepest parts - north facing valleys.

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What's the moisture content? 1 Cubic foot of water = 62 lbs (per water weight calculator)= ~ 17 % of 6' x 1 sq. ft. Take a 5 gallon bucket of snow, let it melt. Measure depth of water vs bucket height for percentage.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I have no realistic way to clear the upper roof. Local building code says house should have been designed for about 140# per square foot snow load, minimum, so just gonna have to hope it holds up. Guesstimating about 6-7' deep on the roof in the deepest parts - north facing valleys.

I pulled down some snow from the lower edges where I can reach from the ground, on the north side. The south, west, and east sides melted off a lot before the last 10 days of storms, so there's much less on those sides.

Warm storm in two days means rain at my elevation...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0f16a3c07e.jpg

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WOW.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Any ice dams?

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The a-frame on the left likely has a dormer on the top floor which may have some ice dam issues. Those owners probably won’t know until summer.

My buddy’s a-frame is just down the street. It also has a dormer on the third floor, which is where the interior door closing issue was first recognized over a month ago. He’s up there now trying to figure out how to move some weight off his roof and making some turns.

In California, these winter storms may result in a federal disaster declaration which may result in federal grant $$ to private property owners for home repairs.

IME another thing to look out for is flooding, maybe 5 yrs ago in oct we had snow followed by rain, it was bad enough to cave in a couple of roofs so people were shoveling roofs but also it totally saturated the watertable and caused a bunch of flooded basements

now i clear a swath directly in front of & behind the house

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

What's the moisture content? 1 Cubic foot of water = 62 lbs (per water weight calculator)= ~ 17 % of 6' x 1 sq. ft. Take a 5 gallon bucket of snow, let it melt. Measure depth of water vs bucket height for percentage.

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It varies so much that it'd be impossible to measure without getting up on the top roof and cutting a sample column. The very bottom of the snowpack is probably ice, then very very dense snow, then working its way up to light fluff on the very top.

I'm in a snow drought area this season. No matter this discussion is hugely interesting.

Which makes me think of the latest infrared cameras you plug into Android (and i-) phones. They are great for seeing where hot and cold spots on a roof or anywhere else are, x10 better if you have access inside the eaves and crawl spaces.

I'm on my third one.

First one was about $450. One buddy asked can he borrow it? I said yes. After a few weeks I had to ask about it, he asked how much it cost and he said I'll just keep it here's your $450 + some more for the effort. I got a second one this time cost was about $325, someone else asked to borrow it, same thing he kept it and paid it off.

I'm now on my third one and this time the cost was $250. They can be as low as $199 up to $500.

Still amazing little devices that take any guess work out of insulating and air sealing.

My house is a good example of bad roof design. This is on the north side of the house and that door is the front door.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

My house is a good example of bad roof design. This is on the north side of the house and that door is the front door.

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At least it looks like that steel sheds snow well. I have a Cor-ten steel roof and it doesn't seem to shed all that well, maybe my angle just isn't steep enough.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

At least it looks like that steel sheds snow well. I have a Cor-ten steel roof and it doesn't seem to shed all that well, maybe my angle just isn't steep enough.

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Yeah, perfect for burying you as you are heading in/out.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

What's the moisture content? 1 Cubic foot of water = 62 lbs (per water weight calculator)= ~ 17 % of 6' x 1 sq. ft. Take a 5 gallon bucket of snow, let it melt. Measure depth of water vs bucket height for percentage.

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Moisture content is gonna be pretty damn high if it rains n 2 days like he said. That shit's gonna be heavy.

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Originally Posted by ötzi

Moisture content is gonna be pretty damn high if it rains n 2 days like he said. That shit's gonna be heavy.

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Rain could add: 5.2 lbs/sq. ft./in of depth

CA and western NV are gonna have some problems with the 2+ weeks(?) of forecasted warmer wet storms. Hope there’s no EQs in the Sierra over that time.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Rain could add: 5.2 lbs/sq. ft./in of depth

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Forecast from NOAA this afternoon looks like rain/snow level will be above my house elevation for the entire storm from late Wed until Mon. Snow line as high as 8500', I live at about 5900'. Am hoping for some melt off from the rain and 40-45* temps, and not just saturating all the snow on the roof. I'm going to dig out the drains tomorrow to help encourage drainage away from the house. Most of the gutters are full of ice, so they're going to have to melt out before they can help transport water away.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

At least it looks like that steel sheds snow well. I have a Cor-ten steel roof and it doesn't seem to shed all that well, maybe my angle just isn't steep enough.

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It would be fine if not for the intersecting roof line from that little bonus room to the looker's right of the door. It only sheds from that valley if I get the roof rake out and help it along.

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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Yeah, perfect for burying you as you are heading in/out.

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Right?

Nothing like some good ole fashion wanking for therapy and results. My shop has never had ice build up like this. It has always released on it's own. It's interesting that the entirety of the recycled metal roof is fully iced where the dormer isn't. Still trying to wrap my head around what chain of events caused this to happened. The weak layer is the one that released 10 days ago causing the avalanche ten miles away:

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@adrenalated: If you took out those two windows in the bonus and put the front door there under a little gable roof with the ridge running back it would make a nice entrance

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Originally Posted by ötzi

@adrenalated: If you took out those two windows in the bonus and put the front door there under a little gable roof with the ridge running back it would make a nice entrance

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It would, but then the wife would lose her art room so that'd be a hard sell. She comes and goes through the garage anyway so she doesn't give a shit how treacherous the front door is.

My personal experience with rain on snow events at my 6000 ft level in the northern sierra is that on slopes surfaces the rain removes more weight than it adds. I'm thinking of a storm in the early 90's that dumped rain on 9 feet of fresh snow and produced enough runoff to raise Donner Lake over the road, carry decks and propane tanks down the Truckee R, and flood Reno. Of coure I'm sure it depends on the air and water temps, on the nature of the existing snow pack, etc. Here's hoping my past experience bears out, although not to the degree of flooding.

I have shoveled my 40 x 15 foot deck twice in the last week--3 feet of snow each time, to get the snow pack down to the deck rail. My secret weapon is a snow scoop--the kind you push with two hands. It's amazing how much snow you can move with that compared to a shovel, assuming you have someplace to push it to.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

It would, but then the wife would lose her art room so that'd be a hard sell. She comes and goes through the garage anyway so she doesn't give a shit how treacherous the front door is.

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how good is art anyways? Might need a heart-to-heart talk with her over this.

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Originally Posted by old goat

My personal experience with rain on snow events at my 6000 ft level in the northern sierra is that on slopes surfaces the rain removes more weight than it adds. .

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I very much hope this is what happens in the next few days. I just don't see any realistic way to clear snow off the roof without climbing up there, and that's not happening.

I'm not concerned about flooding at my house, though I do live adjacent to Dry Creek on the map - and remember you commenting on that before... The Dry Creek near me is down in a gully, plenty deep, plenty of downstream dispersal area away from my house.

My wife and I cleared our roof one time but those days are long over. We did use safety rope although when we were done we didn't need the ladder to get off the roof. This was in the early 90's (not the same year as the flooding) and the snow was deeper on the ground than it is now. But winter isn't over.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

It varies so much that it'd be impossible to measure without getting up on the top roof and cutting a sample column. The very bottom of the snowpack is probably ice, then very very dense snow, then working its way up to light fluff on the very top.

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For peace of mind and guesstimating purposes, IIRC, blower snow is around 10%. Wet snow around 20-25%. Ice would be just under 100%. I would guess you are currently less than 50% of live load design minimum.


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Originally Posted by Alpinord

For peace of mind and guesstimating purposes, IIRC, blower snow is around 10%. Wet snow around 20-25%. Ice would be just under 100%. I would guess you are currently less than 50% of live load design minimum.


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Thanks - one way or another, I'm going to find out in a couple of days here.

Looking around the neighborhood, almost no houses have any signs of snow removal from the roof tops (in the sense of being raked or shoveled). And the local Nextdoor has no posts concerned about snow load, only about ice dams - which is surprising given how much bitching there is about anything and everything on there.