Minimum & Maximum Boot Sole Lengths

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Originally Posted by Westcoaster

Attachment 439640

Attachment 439641

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Thanks.

“I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.” Google helped me find a https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/314779-STH-gt-STH2-conflict confirming the STH & STH2 toe holes as the same. I’ll print an STH/STH2 toe layout tool from the BindingFreedom template & westcoaster dimensions.

For the heels, I’m still looking to confirm there are only 4 holes, correct? What are the extra holes for on the Binding Freedom Salomon template?

Attachment 439769

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Thanks.

“I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.” Google helped me find a https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/314779-STH-gt-STH2-conflict confirming the STH & STH2 toe holes as the same. I’ll print an STH/STH2 toe layout tool from the BindingFreedom template & westcoaster dimensions.

For the heels, I’m still looking to confirm there are only 4 holes, correct? What are the extra holes for on the Binding Freedom Salomon template?

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For the STH, there are five holes. The fifth being for another anchor, right near where the ski brake screws into the baseplate.

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Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

For the STH, there are five holes. The fifth being for another anchor, right near where the ski brake screws into the baseplate.

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OK.Here's the revised heel. What's the hole north of the toe needed for?

Attachment 439800

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Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

For the STH, there are five holes. The fifth being for another anchor, right near where the ski brake screws into the baseplate.

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There are five holes on the toe of the STH/Warden 13 jig, but the front and center one isn't for STH/STH2, it is for the old Z Series bindings which only took 3 screws. The heels for all the bindings only take 4 screws and the pattern is the same for all of them. FWIW, this jig also works for the Strive 16.

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Originally Posted by Westcoaster

Attachment 439640

Attachment 439641

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The most precise way to measure hole spacing is to measure "inside to inside", then measure the diameter of one hole and add that number to your first measurement.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

The most precise way to measure hole spacing is to measure "inside to inside", then measure the diameter of one hole and add that number to your first measurement.

... Thom

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Is that not what i did?

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Originally Posted by gregL

There are five holes on the toe of the STH/Warden 13 jig, but the front and center one isn't for STH/STH2, it is for the old Z Series bindings which only took 3 screws. The heels for all the bindings only take 4 screws and the pattern is the same for all of them. FWIW, this jig also works for the Strive 16.

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but the STH (not the 2) has only four holes in the toe piece. It has five in the heel piece with the fifth hole for anchoring the brake assembly.

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Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the STH (not the 2) has only four holes in the toe piece. It has five in the heel piece with the fifth hole for anchoring the brake assembly.

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You are right, four holes in the toe and an extra hole for the brake. The center front toe hole is for the Z bindings; I think this is the one Alpinord was asking about. The STH2 also has four holes for the toe.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

The most precise way to measure hole spacing is to measure "inside to inside", then measure the diameter of one hole and add that number to your first measurement.

... Thom

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Measuring hole centers accurately can be challenging. Your comment and westcoaster's image of adding the inside to inside and then the hole diameter gave me an idea on generating some kind of 'self-centering' caliper attachment. Much like self-centering drilling for door hinges, etc:

Attachment 440002

I usually just measure same side to same side of holes.

Edit: Conceptually, like this:

Attachment 440006

https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...e_to_side.jpeg

For those who live

Forgot to follow up on the centering caliper concept:

Attachment 444443


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Originally Posted by gregL

Wow, I'd think it should be the other way around.

Minimum BSL for stock boots is 262 (a couple of models, though those people are likely not skiing on Pivots). Hawx Magna 31.5 is 369, but I believe the Hawx Prime 120 and Salomon S/Pro 120 come in 32.5 (don't know the BSL's).

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I don’t know I it’s still manufactured, but in the last 10 years Head made one model up to size MP 34. The BSL was 384mm and I could put my foot in it while it was still buckled.

https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...0templates.png

https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...layout_iso.png


https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...yout_tool.jpeg

Edit: An additional discrepancy occurs when overlaying JonDrums/Binding Freedom Template:

https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...plates_toe.png

https://tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/...ates_heel2.png

https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings...rden_demos.png


FWIW, here is the Warden 13 Demo page from the 2020-21 tech manual

The heel line on Knut's template is off. I made a template for it for my jig and I thought the heel line should be 12mm back from the front holes to end up centered in the adjustment range.

That moves your discrepancy to the other side on Gregory's 11demo layout, but should be pretty close...16mm forward would move the center 8mm forward or 1-2mm on the other side of the CL?

https://www.slidewright.com/Bindings..._demo_heel.png

Yeah I do remember the scale thing now that you mention it, because I didn't think i moved it super far. So i was moving from his 16mm to 12mm, not 12mm on the other side of the holes where your line is drawn.

Still will be a small discrepancy.

Ok, disregard what I said earlier. Knut's template is wrong but my notes didn't match my CAD, so not sure what was going on there...maybe I was just confused

I have a pair of warden 11 (not demo) mounted that I just measured:
Total adjustment is 44mm in 4mm increments. Nominal heel line to put you in the middle of that range is 24mm back from the front heel holes (adjusted for whatever forward pressure, so might vary a bit).
Hope that helps.

It seems there are enough people using ATK raiders around here that one of these layout tools would be worthwhile... hint I want one....
There are a couple of variations of the toe screw pattern, but I think they share 2 of the 4 holes, with the first one being the most common.

https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte...etour-2020.pdf

https://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conte...etour-2020.pdf

Ok, thanks. I’ll try to circle back to this within the next few days. Go ahead and make a custom order.

https://www.slidewright.com/slidewri...yout-tools.php

(The URLs you posted need to be edited. Omit the stuff before ‘https’.)

On first glance, I’m not clear yet on the lines shown relative to BSLs or BSCs. Do you have other template links? I can generate one if needed and with some insights here.


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Moment Voyager (ATK FR) paper template and instructions.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/05...de_-_20-21.pdf

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Originally Posted by Beder

Moment Voyager (ATK FR) paper template and instructions.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/05...de_-_20-21.pdf

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Which ATK bindings are the Moment Voyagers rebranded from?

https://www.atkbindings.com/en/downloads-2/


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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Ok, thanks. I’ll try to circle back to this within the next few days. Go ahead and make a custom order.

https://www.slidewright.com/slidewri...yout-tools.php

(The URLs you posted need to be edited. Omit the stuff before ‘https’.)

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Will do, I am not in a super huge rush here if templates need to be checked before you start printing things.

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Originally Posted by Alpinord

On first glance, I’m not clear yet on the lines shown relative to BSLs or BSCs. Do you have other template links? I can generate one if needed and with some insights here.


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Not an Ideal template format, for sure... I think there are some folks with the jig on here that could check the distances, but I wonder if they will find this thread...

I think I have it figured out. I just need carve out a window to make the template and tool.


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Originally Posted by Alpinord

Which ATK bindings are the Moment Voyagers rebranded from?

https://www.atkbindings.com/en/downloads-2/


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It’s the Free Raider, which is a Raider with a spacer in the heel to support the boot.

The C-Raider has the same heel as a Raider with an injected molded toe piece with 2 different holes up front.