Developer mags? How can we gum up the works?

well this got derailed and shit
here is what you can and cannot do

if a few other "developers" have passed on the site then work needed to stabilize and build outweighs the profit duh?
so......... does this clown have the money needed to pull this project off?
in all my highly proffessional life I have come across a million "talkers" people who are so full of shit and don't have a nickle to make those dreams reality but will sell themselves on you all day long and how they are going to build a massive dildo but they can't get it out of there ass

there are millions of half finished jacked up projects all across this great country cause people had big ideas but no cash man

there is nothing you can do, he has rights to his property just like you and me so let it go ok?
they bulldozed a private forrest park with bike trails and great places for my dog to shit it was right out my front door and they built a bunch of 2 or 3 miiilon dollar houeses those bastards as they finished up I didn't like their drainage work so started raising a stink sure enough the approved plans and completed work (gasp) weren't even close they didn't follow the plans at all

I pointed it all out to the powers that be and the good ole boy network was in full swing with these people
sure enough two weeks later a new set of plans were approved with all the "as built" work
they had some cut rate bullshit engineer and I know his calcs wouldn't have passed the sniff test
but I let it go

what you can do:

request copies of the engineering this is all public record once it is submitted for review
maybe have one or two other engineering companies (not a bro or a bud) a randome company review their work
do not tresspass at all
observe the work as being completed make notes if things are not completed per plans, use a drone use binoculars, take photos

observe the work being done
check the red line prints as well as local codes
are silt screens in place as noted on the plans
construction fencing
you name it check and double check

then start turning him in for everything
the planning/engineering/building dept will hate you cause you are making their life difficult always be nice and understanding
read the room if you start to be a dick back off govt employees want people to jerk them off

my guess is is 250k worth or retaining walls excavation and drainage to do it properly
my guess is the clown has only 90k to do the work if that

Is there even a view from where the home is to be sited? What price range do homes in this area sell for? I'm wondering if this guy's plan makes any financial sense at all. He may well just sink beneath the waves as Fred suggests. But he'll probably leave a big ugly unstable mess if he does. The only way to definitely avoid that is to buy it from him.

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Originally Posted by fastfred

well this got derailed and shit
here is what you can and cannot do

if a few other "developers" have passed on the site then work needed to stabilize and build outweighs the profit duh?
so......... does this clown have the money needed to pull this project off?
in all my highly proffessional life I have come across a million "talkers" people who are so full of shit and don't have a nickle to make those dreams reality but will sell themselves on you all day long and how they are going to build a massive dildo but they can't get it out of there ass

there are millions of half finished jacked up projects all across this great country cause people had big ideas but no cash man

there is nothing you can do, he has rights to his property just like you and me so let it go ok?
they bulldozed a private forrest park with bike trails and great places for my dog to shit it was right out my front door and they built a bunch of 2 or 3 miiilon dollar houeses those bastards as they finished up I didn't like their drainage work so started raising a stink sure enough the approved plans and completed work (gasp) weren't even close they didn't follow the plans at all

I pointed it all out to the powers that be and the good ole boy network was in full swing with these people
sure enough two weeks later a new set of plans were approved with all the "as built" work
they had some cut rate bullshit engineer and I know his calcs wouldn't have passed the sniff test
but I let it go

what you can do:

request copies of the engineering this is all public record once it is submitted for review
maybe have one or two other engineering companies (not a bro or a bud) a randome company review their work
do not tresspass at all
observe the work as being completed make notes if things are not completed per plans, use a drone use binoculars, take photos

observe the work being done
check the red line prints as well as local codes
are silt screens in place as noted on the plans
construction fencing
you name it check and double check

then start turning him in for everything
the planning/engineering/building dept will hate you cause you are making their life difficult always be nice and understanding
read the room if you start to be a dick back off govt employees want people to jerk them off

my guess is is 250k worth or retaining walls excavation and drainage to do it properly
my guess is the clown has only 90k to do the work if that

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Fastfred for the mf'in win.

Yeah Fred, that's basically the plan i think. We've determined that despite the dude saying he owns it, he has not yet bought, and is actually under contract and in the due diligence stage. So he really hasn't gotten any further than past attempts over the last 30 years. I've seen 4 or 5 other attempts putting it under contract and then backing out.
He was up there personally in an excavator digging trenches at the base of the hills (steep part that need to be graded for the 5 lot plan) and he said he was doing the geotechnical analysis work. He's of course allowed to do that, but I'm pretty sure the geotechnical work would need to be done by an independent party, or at least have a city person there to monitor if he is doing the work himself. How can he get up there himself in his own excavator and do his own digging and his own report. No way that should be a valid submission, correct?
In the permit section of salt lake city, the planning permit shows correspondence from the city stating that the city is very skeptical of the development potential for 5 lots.
The city said...
"The existing grade study that you sent should be a strong indication to you and your team regarding the development potential of the subject lot. In short, the development potential is extremely limited. I don't see at this point, based on city development standards noted below, the potential for more than the existing lot."
"You included a grading plan in the correspondence that you sent. Just to be very clear, you cannot grade the property to meet slope requirements. The existing grade determines the developability of the parcel."

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Originally Posted by SkiLyft

To those asking why… have you lived next to a development being built? Not enjoyable.


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Yes, saw this bigly in my last 'hood. Not fun. Haven't read any of the rest of the thread per TGR tradition, but good luck.

Fred started you down the correct path to killing a risky development, but turned off course.

Find the source of the construction financing. Find their surety. Find their insurance company. Make sure they're aware of the issues with the site, the potential costs and potential future liabilities. Figure out a way to place a preliminary construction lien notice on the development (not sure how that goes in UT, but in CA it is possible for damn near anyone to file a prelim notice). If the drainage and slope stabilization aren't up to the permitted plans, file a lien and they can't sell/subdivide until it is cleared. Make sure the financing, surety and insurance all know you're filing a preliminary notice. Watch the deal disappear if the plan is half baked.

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

He was up there personally in an excavator digging trenches at the base of the hills (steep part that need to be graded for the 5 lot plan) and he said he was doing the geotechnical analysis work. He's of course allowed to do that, but I'm pretty sure the geotechnical work would need to be done by an independent party, or at least have a city person there to monitor if he is doing the work himself. How can he get up there himself in his own excavator and do his own digging and his own report. No way that should be a valid submission, correct?

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I'm not buying that he's a licensed engineer (necessary for the geotech report), a successful developer, and a convicted rapist.

He probably reached out to a geotech, found out how much they cost and how far out they're booked and rented a mini excavator to scratch around. If that's his due diligence I'd be surprised if this project ever goes vertical.

He has a history of doing multiple single family home developments, including getting entitlements, subdividing, and building, then selling the homes. So i think he kind of knows what he is doing. He is definitely a SO convict, and has been convicted on multiple occasions of failing to register as a SO. Most recently in February of this year.
But doing your own geotech would be a conflict of interest, "hey what ya know, of course it's good to go!". And it was definitely him up there with his employees digging around.
Ultimately, someone will do a single family up there (it'd be nice if it were a non-convicted rapist that moves in), but the subdivide plans and multiple house plans and all the grading should be of massive concern to all surrounding homeowners given the slopes and fault line involved.
I suspect the project will die on the vine, as it has so many times before, but vigilance is required. Just needs to slip through a sleepy planner once...

Getotech reports typically need to be stamped, and to my knowledge always need to be done by an engineer. However, in order for that engineer to inspect the soil the contractor or owner often excavates a pit for them to inspect.

Sounds like that is what is happening. Which is normal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EWG

Getotech reports typically need to be stamped, and to my knowledge always need to be done by an engineer. However, in order for that engineer to inspect the soil the contractor or owner often excavates a pit for them to inspect.

Sounds like that is what is happening. Which is normal.

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There yo go. We call this an "open hole". Our local soils engineers wear white oxford shirts. Somebody has to dig a hole for them to peer into and sample.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Utah is legislated by home builders and land developers. Good luck.

Also, I think people knew this was a bad idea, but property rights and all: https://www.ksl.com/article/31008703...t-crushed-home


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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That slide didn’t slow down developing the rest of that hillside. Those seven figure homes above the gravel pit now have 30’+ retaining walls. But the sweet view of the freeway and refineries is no doubt worth it.

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Originally Posted by alias_rice

That slide didn’t slow down developing the rest of that hillside. Those seven figure homes above the gravel pit now have 30’+ retaining walls. But the sweet view of the freeway and refineries is no doubt worth it.

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That neighborhood was always a mystery to me. I mean the view blows, but all the pollution wafting up into your home with the din of the freeway below?

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

That neighborhood was always a mystery to me. I mean the view blows, but all the pollution wafting up into your home with the din of the freeway below?

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Every time I drive by I wonder wtf.


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Geotech is black magic because of so many unknown variables in the equation. There is a reason they put big-ass factors of safety on their designs. Nearly all failures of designed slopes and walls that ive seen and been around have resulted from illicit drainage from neighbors, broken/failed drainage that was actually planned and designed, or some fluke weather event or hidden soil layer that was not discovered during exploration. A slope which has has a geotech eval or design done to it is gonna be a fuckload safer than a slope that has naturally occured and is in a state of constant natural erosion.

My first suggestion of sprinkling a few arrowheads around the site before an inspector shows up is still the best way to shut a project down.

In small town USA, I'll add to the list:

Half assed engineers that will stamp anything

Shitty excavators chasing a check that just fucking wing it

Building inspectors that don't know what they are doing

Glass always full homebuyers and realtors that wouldn't know a construction defect if it poured them another glass of rose on a sunny patio at three in the afternoon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SkiLyft

To those asking why… have you lived next to a development being built? Not enjoyable.

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Yep, 26 house on a portion of a 17 acre lot (1/3 used for detention and “preserving nature”) that we used to consider our extended back yard. If I tried real hard, I bet I could hit a couple with one of those vortex footballs from my back deck. Big, ugly cubes stacked on top of each other. Pretty cheap looking houses despite the insane price some of those folks paid.

We made some early attempts to slow things down but to the developer’s credit, they followed the rules, left a larger than required buffer at the back of my and my neighbor’s property, and talking to the guys doing the site work, seemed to make some efforts to limit their impact on us. Sometimes there’s no stopping progress, so gotta just look on the bright side, they cleared a view of the mountains and built us an all-sidewalk route to the park and pool.

What basinbeater is describing doesn’t really sound the same to me, and having had the displeasure of working with the powers-that-be where he lives, I’d say he has some cause for concern. The perv neighbor part is, IMO, a separate issue and should be handled as such.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by basinbeater

But doing your own geotech would be a conflict of interest, "hey what ya know, of course it's good to go!". And it was definitely him up there with his employees digging around.

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In CA it is not a conflict of interest to stamp your own plans or reports, and I don't think it is in UT either. I'd be surprised if it was. But by stamping the plans, they become the Engineer-of-Record for the project, and that carries for responsibility for the adequacy and accuracy of the design with criminal liability terms for whatever happens if he is faking it (no limit of personal liability). Engineers that stamp plans regularly carry personal liability insurance policies to cover just this, but that just stops you from going bankrupt. You can still land in jail. The stamp bears a very real responsibility and is not taken lightly.

If you know the dudes name, you can check if he has a stamp right here: https://secure.utah.gov/llv/search/index.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Not DJSapp

In CA it is not a conflict of interest to stamp your own plans or reports, and I don't think it is in UT either. I'd be surprised if it was. But by stamping the plans, they become the Engineer-of-Record for the project, and that carries for responsibility for the adequacy and accuracy of the design with criminal liability terms for whatever happens if he is faking it (no limit of personal liability). Engineers that stamp plans regularly carry personal liability insurance policies to cover just this, but that just stops you from going bankrupt. You can still land in jail. The stamp bears a very real responsibility and is not taken lightly.

If you know the dudes name, you can check if he has a stamp right here: https://secure.utah.gov/llv/search/index.html

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My firm carries the liability insurance, though i could still be criminally responsible for a negligently crappy design. Liability is a bitch, and is why i NEVER cut corners, though i will round them off within reason as long as its good engineering design and "meets the spirit of the code".

It is interesting how fast n' loose some areas play with design and construction, while other areas (like the metro where i work mostly) have crazy amounts of jurisdictional oversight and regulation. hell, its crazy to see the level of design put into single family residential projects (usually minimal) compared to commercial developments (a lot).

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

My firm carries the liability insurance, though i could still be criminally responsible for a negligently crappy design. Liability is a bitch, and is why i NEVER cut corners, though i will round them off within reason as long as its good engineering design and "meets the spirit of the code".

It is interesting how fast n' loose some areas play with design and construction, while other areas (like the metro where i work mostly) have crazy amounts of jurisdictional oversight and regulation. hell, its crazy to see the level of design put into single family residential projects (usually minimal) compared to commercial developments (a lot).

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Maybe because the owners of commercial developments have the resources to sue and the owners of single family houses don't?

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Originally Posted by old goat

Maybe because the owners of commercial developments have the resources to sue and the owners of single family houses don't?

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Combo of that and larger commercial developments dont have the cookie cutter, seen it before thing going on like with a development from Pulte/DR Horton/Toll Bros so you have to hold the contractors hand a little more.

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

In small town USA, I'll add to the list:

Half assed engineers that will stamp anything

Shitty excavators chasing a check that just fucking wing it

Building inspectors that don't know what they are doing

Glass always full homebuyers and realtors that wouldn't know a construction defect if it poured them another glass of rose on a sunny patio at three in the afternoon

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Not where I am, no building codes so we don't do engineers or inspectors. All the contractors just wing it.

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Originally Posted by adrenalated

Not where I am, no building codes so we don't do engineers or inspectors. All the contractors just wing it.

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by contractor you mean guy with a pickup and a cellphone right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dunfree

by contractor you mean guy with a pickup and a cellphone right?

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Well I met the builder for a house that I'm looking at buying and the conversation went something like this:

"So did you have any engineering done on the roof structure, or design to a particular snow load?"
"It's way overbuilt, you could park a truck on it. I've been doing this so long that I don't need an engineer to look at my work."
"Well unfortunately you're selling to an engineer so you get to prove to me that you know what you're doing."

To be fair it does appear to be built appropriately. I do love the redneck unit of measurement of describing strength as a function of trucks parked on it as if that had any relevance.

He also had a nice truck and I assume a cell phone.

I remember a roofing guy telling the ex-gf " yeah we could totally put duriod shingles on that tar n gravel roof " ex Gf knew math and shit, a little quick math would show there is not enough slope, but i wonder how many time he pulled that