The Official 19/20 Tahoe Ski Snowboard Thread. Plus bonus Bootfitting Recs!

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Originally Posted by lepistoir

Not to interrupt the notching about non-skiing topics with another one but thinking of trying my luck at sand harbor midweek for a little SUP. How dumb is this?

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Guessing you're asking in regards to crowds?

If so, check in with Vets. His better half works there and could give you the dirt on how busy it is this week (I am gonna hazard a guess that it's not that busy. I am basing this guess on the fact that as I drove around the West end of the Lake on Saturday at 10 am there was 0 traffic. Eagle Falls was packed as was Camp Richardson, but no traffic and no lollygagging lookyloos driving 5 mph and stopping to take pix on the drive...)

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Originally Posted by climberevan

https://media.giphy.com/media/xBqg5g...pek6/giphy.gif

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That's not an argument. You don't ski much on rose but your solidarity is needed and is an investment for the future. Your South Lake access and OSV conflicts will come along soon enough. Speaking of which, there is a Tahoe Backcountry Alliance meeting and greeting Wed, 6:30-8:30, at Alpenglow in Tahoe City. See you there.



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Originally Posted by dookey67

Guessing you're asking in regards to crowds?

If so, check in with Vets. His better half works there and could give you the dirt on how busy it is this week (I am gonna hazard a guess that it's not that busy. I am basing this guess on the fact that as I drove around the West end of the Lake on Saturday at 10 am there was 0 traffic. Eagle Falls was packed as was Camp Richardson, but no traffic and no lollygagging lookyloos driving 5 mph and stopping to take pix on the drive...)

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Actually, I have been aware of the (lack of) crowds too but there were people out on a gorgeous day. I parked second row because I had a trailer but tons of room. Some guy actually did go for it with his RV across three spots on the front row. All the tunnel creek lots were 75% full at 230. Good to know about the presence of staff. just an iron Ranger at the entrance but I'm sure there was enforcement. Would have taken more than $10 to ruin this day
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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

I agree Lepistoir, opening ..............chickadee ridge is going to lead to a lot of conflicts

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They're not "opening" chickadee ridge. It's been open to sleds ever since you've lived here.
Agreed on your other gripes but there's a reason the color on that section isn't 'newly opened/yellow'. Just a narrow strip east of incline lake, that's all that's being proposed newly opened, nothing else.
See? You didn't even know that. Must not be much conflict™

I have seen them back there but never really past the ridge towards Diamond peak. Surprised to find out they can basically sled to the diamond peak boundary.
We got flushed out of the Relay peak area in the early to mid 90's when sleds started to get way lighter and more powerful and "high lining" became the thing. Did not really mind boarders shuttling the slope beneath the cell tower building kickers, obnoxious yes but tolerable if they kept the lines untracked. Eventually so many sleds, so many ass holes. retreated to lesser known and trafficked areas. By the way, we were skiing Galena/tamarack when it was still private land, we intentionally did not name any of the runs and tried to keep it quiet. Plans for a destination resort and EIS forced us to reveal how fun the back country was in there. Until then the only other people we ever saw back there was two older guys from Reno that never used skins and had ramer bindings, we had tele gear (i know you don't care). They would only come out on cold days and just used purple wax in the kicker zone. To this day I have never seen anybody ski more vertical in those bowls in an afternoon than those guys. I do not believe the owner ever had the cash but I think a land swap deal was made and the area was incorporated into the national forest.

Then SAC and google maps came along, and with that, in a season or two, changed everything.

sorry for the ramble hope it snows soon.

things change. other stuff beyond gets hit more as people get more motivated to go further. perhaps the problem is worse on the north shore because of Truckee but there still seems to be at least room to get away down here on the south shore.

Still plenty of places to avoid the crowds on the north side.

All of the traffic and various bitching about Tahoe jumping the shark... so much of that hassle is easy to predict and avoid. Wake up a little earlier, etc. I don’t know, I’m stoked for winter and still like it around here.

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Originally Posted by ~mikey b

Check the wind forecast

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^Dis for Sand Harbor. A couple years ago I caught a just over head high wave there on one of the fall storms. :biggrin: Got chased out of the water by lightning.

IIRC, I skied good snow every single day last winter. And the MTB trails keep getting better and the network denser. Yeah, there are too many people...for good reason.

Went up to Alpine base area on Friday evening, and checked out the new Treeline Cirque lift. The base loading area looks crazy - massive structure with 25 foot retaining walls. Should be interesting to see how Alpine operates that chair - whether they can open the top of it during heavy storm/wind events, even when Summit 6 can't; how much those Sherwood cliffs stashes suffer from increased traffic; whether we get better and faster access to Sherwood; whether pressure is reduced on Scott; whether Alpine flows better overall.

Ikon/Alterra kinda sucks...but they are WAY better than those KSL clowns. Operations were pretty solid last season, considering the insane winter, and they are actually building decent upgrades to the mountain like the new Alpine lift. Hope they come through with their plans to rad out Rad Dog next summer.

Oh yeah, little bump and BIG UPS to Court Leve, who I think is one of y'all - read an article in Moonshine Ink about his work to clean up trash in Tahoe and the greater basin. Good on ya bro! Good humans make the world a better place. https://moonshineink.com/tahoe-news/trash-talk/

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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

We got flushed out of the Relay peak area in the early to mid 90's when sleds started to get way lighter and more powerful and "high lining" became the thing.

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Which corresponds exactly with the timeline that sledders got 'flushed out' of the newly designated mt rose wilderness, signed in 1989, mapped and instituted shortly after. That's not a coincidence that traffic went up in the relay basin.

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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

tolerable if they kept the lines untracked.

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Sorry about your snow getting tracked. How do you think the sledders felt about losing everything north of the ridge where they used to be able to ride out of your way?
You ever see the trash along the highway every spring? Broken sleds, soda/beer cans, water bottles, deflated inner tubes, friggin dirty diapers........that's not at the snowmobile parking spot you'll notice. That's the most annoying thing to me up there, because it's a constant these days. Anybody ever calling for banning recreational sledding and tubing? Nope.

Either way this plan coming out of the LTBMU has some interesting tenets involved in it, parking finally being one of them. Why the FS run parking lots on the east shore don't get plowed is assinine. All that state park land just east of the highway and the only place to access it is from spooner summit. Rather than just whine about another user group, now is the time to actually IMPROVE access for what you like to do. Tallac and the west shore included.

^to be fair regarding the litter, the sledders, tobogganists, etc. are not only parking there but also recreating there. That's one reason there is much more litter there as compared to the snowmo area. However, the time of spent up blue lakes road finding tons of trash spread around what should be a pristine area, realizing it is from the snowmobilers camping there.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Anybody ever calling for banning recreational sledding and tubing? Nope.

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People are pissed about the trash. There will eventually be restrictions on "disposable" sleds or entry fees that go to trash collection.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...c368e65796.jpg

Much better if your trash is an invisible gas that warms the planet.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Either way this plan coming out of the LTBMU has some interesting tenets involved in it, parking finally being one of them. Rather than just whine about another user group, now is the time to actually IMPROVE access for what you like to do. Tallac and the west shore included.

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This. The plans are still in development. Change happens and if you're not the one doing it (or the one on the sidelines saying "don't do anything because not everywhere is ruined yet and I'll take whatever I'm given, thank you sir") then you're the one stuck with it. I hope you'll all get involved and be part of the adulting. And I am DEFINITELY not doing enough. Big ups to rad peeps like Court!


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It sure must suck to live in north tahoe


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Originally Posted by lepistoir

Fuck cancer
Gonna ski like it's 1999


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I guess nobuddy else went to the Rally for Robb? I knew he was just an awesome guy and helped with the fight against KSLmaggeddon. He also hit back flips and gnar like Schmidtiots and skied 100 days the year he got his Dr.

You can still support him monetarily or morally:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/rally-for-robb-gaffney


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Originally Posted by lepistoir

Much better if your trash is an invisible gas that warms the planet.

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Literally millions of cars and plenty of airplanes bringing people here to recreate every weekend and you want to bitch about a few hundred sleds. Productive. Walk up mt rose hwy next time you want to ski there. Your recreation is just as motorized as anyone else.

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Originally Posted by powdork

^to be fair regarding the litter, the sledders, tobogganists, etc. are not only parking there but also recreating there. That's one reason there is much more litter there as compared to the snowmo area. However, the time of spent up blue lakes road finding tons of trash spread around what should be a pristine area, realizing it is from the snowmobilers camping there.

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#vanlife has done a number on winter parking spots, especially snoparks which the word is out that it's legit overnight camping. There's stuff along 80 that no sledders use that's the same way. I've definitely seen people camping out at blue lakes with no sleds talking about just skiing carson pass for the weekend. It's the new campground, snowmobiles or not.

Kidwoo a beautiful, snarky reply:) Good point about mt rose wilderness, I never really put the two together but makes sense. To be honest I have had so many bad experiences with sleds that I could never really be impartial on the subject and that is part of the problem. A lot of crowd/user issues get better in a good snow year. Let it snow!

Meter-man, totally agree on the MTB conditions/trail opportunities, getting better every year. As I said feelings for the place are complex. Could be just getting old and grumpy and pissed things change so fast.

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

Literally millions of cars and plenty of airplanes bringing people here to recreate every weekend and you want to bitch about a few hundred sleds. Productive. Walk up mt rose hwy next time you want to ski there. Your recreation is just as motorized as anyone else.

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Backcountry skiing is
-checks notes-
NOT motorized.
And "what about over there?" doesn't make your sled magically clean. Own your shit. I drive to the trailhead and it puts carbon in the atmosphere. You can admit the same about your sled. Not huge in the big picture, but be honest.


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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

Kidwoo a beautiful, snarky reply:) Good point about mt rose wilderness, I never really put the two together but makes sense. To be honest I have had so many bad experiences with sleds that I could never really be impartial on the subject and that is part of the problem. A lot of crowd/user issues get better in a good snow year. Let it snow!

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It's kind of a problem with constantly only moving to ban a user group. It just concentrates use somewhere else. But what are you really losing in the relay basin.....most of that stuff faces south. The entire Galena drainage, the south meadow, Mt Rose and Chocolate proper, incline peak all the way to rose knob. There's way more legit terrain closed to sleds up there than open.

It kind of seems like that whole area needs a better comprehensive plan, especially on warm/low snow years when the whole planet congregates up there. The dirt lot right by the sled parking could serve as a new paved, cleared parking zone without fucking up the meadow. The problem is pretty well demonstrated here though: propose a change and people bitch and moan about it, even if they didn't even really understand what's being proposed or what is an actual change.

As far as sledders being dicks, here's something to consider. In your memory since you've been here a while, you've seen sleds banned from hope valley, stevens peak/red lake peak, south mt rose meadows, Mt rose wilderness, and granite chief wilderness. Now a whole bunch more being proposed in every adjacent forest around here. Other than the wilderness but kind of related is that every single time that's been done it's because of 'skiers groups'. It's usually snowlands or their buddies with friends of hope valley but for someone who just rides sleds and doesn't ski, they don't know it's a pretty small group of people getting this done. So sledders really do go around thinking every skier is out to just ban them from more places. I've seen the animosity too and it has nothing to do with me. But lot's of people with snowmobiles don't know that. They just know that every time they turn around, they're getting kicked out of some place else. Just something to think about.

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Originally Posted by lepistoir

Backcountry skiing is
-checks notes-
NOT motorized.
And "what about over there?" doesn't make your sled magically clean. Own your shit. I drive to the trailhead and it puts carbon in the atmosphere. You can admit the same about your sled. Not huge in the big picture, but be honest.

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I'm not trying to "disown my shit." I'm being honest. You could eliminate every sled in the country and the planet would still be warming. Part of the reason I bought a sled was to get to good snow without flying to alaska, or europe, or south america, or driving to jackson or utah for my "non-motorized'" recreation. You mentioned a warming planet and I provided perspective. When I drive down 395 and ski for a weekend I burn more gas in my car than I would have riding a sled all weekend. That's not denying anything, that's telling the truth. And you do the exact same thing but instead just choose to point fingers.

Have fun just blaming everything on people with a lot of the same interests as you. Gonna make for a great future here. Send me some photos from your high horse every once in a while. I bet you can see all the controlled burns north of truckee really well right now.

Are snowmobiles 2 stroke? 4 stroke? Do the new ones have cats, or no? I know a lot more about what's legal in terms of dirt bikes, but I know fuckall about snowmobiles.
And of course, throwing NV into the mix is a whole other wildcard in terms of emissions regs. (I presume there are things legal in NV but not CA, but people still 'sneak' across the border regardless.. I think it's probably less policed than dirtbikes).

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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

Kidwoo a beautiful, snarky reply:) Good point about mt rose wilderness, I never really put the two together but makes sense. To be honest I have had so many bad experiences with sleds that I could never really be impartial on the subject and that is part of the problem. A lot of crowd/user issues get better in a good snow year. Let it snow!

Meter-man, totally agree on the MTB conditions/trail opportunities, getting better every year. As I said feelings for the place are complex. Could be just getting old and grumpy and pissed things change so fast.

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I just think it's funny. In the 70's I was riding snow machines all over what is now the "Wilderness" up to the lodge @ Mt. Rose and clear down to ski Incline. - And Some time almost to Carson City. I wonder how it survived.

Look here, Kid. If you want to spill a gallon of keystrokes and pixels making this personal, I get it. From the way you tell it, it's been a constant losing battle. Sorry you have lost so much access. It is personal. And we are actually talking about managing user groups in a mutually satisfactory fashion, not solving the climate crisis. You point fingers at plastic sleds, maybe don't pretend that your metal and plastic sled and tow vehicle are not creating environmental impact either. I'm ready to let this go cuz my horse needs to poop and it's so high I have to get it away from people who might get knocked unconscious from falling turds. You want to go on about who is the most polluting? Fine. I'd rather admit my contribution to the problem is X, hopefully others admit they contribute Y, and the conflict between us is actually Z. I want to solve for Z. Can we do that please?


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Originally Posted by reid

Are snowmobiles 2 stroke? 4 stroke? Do the new ones have cats, or no? I know a lot more about what's legal in terms of dirt bikes, but I know fuckall about snowmobiles.
And of course, throwing NV into the mix is a whole other wildcard in terms of emissions regs. (I presume there are things legal in NV but not CA, but people still 'sneak' across the border regardless.. I think it's probably less policed than dirtbikes).

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Most of the ones you see around here are either fuel injected, or if they're newer semi or direct injected two strokes. The same kind of 2 strokes that are allowed in boat motors on the lake, it's the same design. 4 strokes literally weigh about 130lbs more so they're pretty unwieldy in deep snow. Most of the gripes about emissions are from crappy tuned carbed sleds which barely exist any more. There are still some around but I think 2008 was the last year of a carbed mountain sled. Even by then most of them were fuel injected. They are IMMENSELY cleaner these days just due to efficiency in the fuel delivery. You can take the exact same design spitting exhaust literally into lake tahoe but somehow doing it 2,000 above only becomes an issue when the holier than thou just want other people out of their way.

The pollution thing is a red herring until someone builds cheap electric cars or a train that goes up I80 or Hwy 50. Snowmobiles are literally a fart compared to that shit cloud that goes up every friday night and sunday afternoon from the vehicle traffic. If someone wants to make sleds less polluting, cool, let's do that. It would be a lot more productive than the bitchy finger pointing in the meantime.

lepi: you're the one that brought up pollution, twice. Either you're capable of having the discussion or you aren't. If not, don't bring it up.

Buddy, the red herring is trying to get statistical about relative contributions to fossil fuel burning when I keep wanting to engage you in the conflict between backcountry skiers and snomosexuals. Thou horse is hard to see from up here but are you strapped to the saddle? Not sure why it is so hard for you to admit sleds emit exhaust and move on to addressing conflict . Come to the TBA meet and greet tomorrow and I'll buy you a beer and even let you try on my halo.


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