In-bounds slide at Taos? Kachina Peak

We had a relatively small inbounds slide at a ski area where I was patrolling and the debris was visible from the chair lift. And the debris covered a traverse that returns to the base from a side country run. This ski area has an extremely high percentage of beacon users because they are required to hit the easily accessible side county.
I was first on scene from the top and was trying to do a beacon search and it was next to impossible to do a proper search because so many people kept coming with their beacons on. I am good with a beacon but was reading like ten to fifteen at once, I would get them to turn off but five more would show up.
It was great they all wanted to help and we utilized them in the probe line but way too many beacon on. It added so much time to doing a proper search. Turns out no one was buried but it was a seriously hard situation to control.

Thoughts to all involved and especially the family and friends of the injured and deceased.



Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Sounds like the second skier who was buried has passed away now. From Vail. Sad

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Originally Posted by ODHGABFE

I was helping run a beacon park yesterday for a buncha sledders and had one group tell me their Garmin Rhino is basically capable of the same thing as a beacon. It does show your location or your buddies location pretty precisely, as they demonstrated. But, your buddy has to have 'checked in' in order to be seen, and you prolly can't 'check in' under a few feet of debris..

When I asked them about battery life they happily said it lasted all day, maybe two, to which I replied I put in new beacon batteries end of November, have turned it on every day, and am still reading over 90%. We did another beacon search drill after that.

The problem isn't that the technology isn't close, it's that people (read: general public) think it should already be there. Wear your beacon in avy terrain, please :)

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FFS...

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Sounds like the second skier who was buried has passed away now. From Vail. Sad

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Corey Borg. RIP

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Sounds like the second skier who was buried has passed away now. From Vail. Sad

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

Corey Borg. RIP

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RIP, Corey.

RIP. Condolences to family and friends.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

Yeah, saw that at CSAW a few years back. Pretty cool. IIRC they set it up aimed at the East wall and SG's maybe?

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I don't understand this. LIDAR can identify slow movements and accelerating movements over time, but can't predict brittle failures due to a trigger like a hard slab avalanche triggered by a skier.

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Originally Posted by skiracer88_00

I don't understand this. LIDAR can identify slow movements and accelerating movements over time, but can't predict brittle failures due to a trigger like a hard slab avalanche triggered by a skier.

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"Optical wavelength, in which LiDAR operates, penetrates only a few cm into dry snow. Prokop (2008) and later Deems et al. (2014) showed that avalanches can be identified in repeated LiDAR scans as features that show snow mass balance loss in the starting zone and slide path and mass balance gain in the accumulation zone. The expensive LiDAR instruments generate highly accurate surface models (better than 15 cm), with measurement rates of up to 200,000 points per second. This is, to date, the most accurate way to map masses moved by snow avalanche but it can only cover single slopes. However, the fast measurement rates allow for short, energy efficient surveys, making long lasting campaigns feasible"

Vibes to the two deceased and their families. Also to Taos patrol - while shit can and will happen, they must be tearing themselves up over this. Ugh - I highly recommend avoiding Facebook comments on this story. Welcome to the new world of social media, where you have someone like Rick Armstrong arguing with some shithead gaper bitch from Texas.

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Originally Posted by Not bunion

Batteries are cheap, good habits are not easy to develop.

I have been on enough post control incidents in bounds that when I ski I just put my beacon on every day and take it off at the end of every day.

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Amen

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Vibes to the two deceased and their families. Also to Taos patrol - while shit can and will happen, they must be tearing themselves up over this. Ugh - I highly recommend avoiding Facebook comments on this story. Welcome to the new world of social media, where you have someone like Rick Armstrong arguing with some shithead gaper bitch from Texas.

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sucks that your social media world has shithead texas gaper bitches and shithead spansered salomon shills that came here to pimp the shitty boot that cost TC his knee
neither come round here
probably why i reside
vibes for the tribes loss of 2 fine young men

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

sucks that your social media world has shithead texas gaper bitches and shithead spansered salomon shills that came here to pimp the shitty boot that cost TC his knee
neither come round here
probably why i reside
vibes for the tribes loss of 2 fine young men

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It’s not “my” social media world. It’s just out there.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

It’s not “my” social media world. It’s just out there.

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sfb seems a little crankier and more judgmental than usual of late.

This is a tough one. Vibes to the victims families and everyone touched by this.

I’ve never considered wearing a beacon inbounds, and I think probably 99+% of resort skiers are the same (except maybe at Bridger).
Maybe that will have to change.

Still, seems like whenever there is an inbounds slide, somebody screwed up. Hope this leads to meaningful changes not just at TSV, but across the industry to make things safer.

I suspect also, there will be lawsuits as a result of this, and hope TSV has sufficient insurance to weather the coming storm.

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Originally Posted by billyk

....
I suspect also, there will be lawsuits as a result of this, and hope TSV has sufficient insurance to weather the coming storm.

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Anyone know what New Mexicos legal world is around stuff like this?

A lawsuit against Taos would be a non-started in CO since it was open terrain and CO Supreme court ruled inbounds avalanches are one of the "inherent risks of skiing" which fall under the skier code.

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Originally Posted by billyk

I’ve never considered wearing a beacon inbounds

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If I recall correctly you're in Texas?

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Anyone know what New Mexicos legal world is around stuff like this?

A lawsuit against Taos would be a non-started in CO since it was open terrain and CO Supreme court ruled inbounds avalanches are one of the "inherent risks of skiing" which fall under the skier code.

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That’s a good point. I obviously don’t know the law on this. Maybe the families are screwed.

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

If I recall correctly you're in Texas?

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Yeah, but I’ve lived other places too. Grew up in Washington and skied many years at Crystal.

Tell me, what percentage of skiers do you think are wearing beacons inbounds at resorts (that are not also skiing side country)?

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

Anyone know what New Mexicos legal world is around stuff like this?

A lawsuit against Taos would be a non-started in CO since it was open terrain and CO Supreme court ruled inbounds avalanches are one of the "inherent risks of skiing" which fall under the skier code.

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The NM ski safety act doesn’t mention avalanches specifically:
https://recreation-law.com/2012/01/2...er-safety-act/

But there’s this:

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A person who takes part in the sport of skiing accepts as a matter of law the dangers inherent in that sport insofar as they are obvious and necessary. Each skier expressly assumes the risk of and legal responsibility for any injury to person or property which results from participation in the sport of skiing, in the skiing area, including any injury caused by the following: variations in terrain; surface or subsurface snow or ice conditions; bare spots; rocks, trees or other forms of forest growth or debris; lift towers and components thereof, pole lines and snow-making equipment which are plainly visible or are plainly marked in accordance with the provisions of Section 24-15-7 NMSA 1978; except for any injuries to persons or property resulting from any breach of duty imposed upon ski area operators under the provisions of Sections 24-15-7 and 24-15-8 NMSA 1978.

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And I came across this:
https://coloradosun.com/2019/01/18/s...lawsuits-fail/

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Originally Posted by billyk

Grew up in Washington and skied many years at Crystal.

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You will recall there being signage at some spots inbounds recommending wearing a beacon then?

Even though you apparently never considered doing so.

I'd think anyplace where avalanche control is a part of normal ski operations is a place were people ought to seriously consider wearing a beacon. We're putting more lifts in to areas where the level of management is higher. It's something a lot of recreational skiers don't think about as a risk in lift served terrain, but should. Maybe denote higher risk, beacon recommended terrain on trail maps and lift corral signage better if we're not going to outright require showing the equipment before boarding those lifts??

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

I'd think anyplace where avalanche control is a part of normal ski operations is a place were people ought to seriously consider wearing a beacon. We're putting more lifts in to areas where the level of management is higher. It's something a lot of recreational skiers don't think about as a risk in lift served terrain, but should. Maybe denote higher risk, beacon recommended terrain on trail maps and lift corral signage better if we're not going to outright require showing the equipment before boarding those lifts??

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I don't mean to be pedantic, but there have been very few new chairlifts built in the last 10 years with an emphasis on accessing complex, expert-oriented terrain.

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Originally Posted by glademaster

I don't mean to be pedantic, but there have been very few new chairlifts built in the last 10 years with an emphasis on accessing complex, expert-oriented terrain.

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I've heard of a few major ones in the past 20 or 30 years. Notably Kachina.. Peak 7 and 8 at Breck, Bridger,

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

I'd think anyplace where avalanche control is a part of normal ski operations is a place were people ought to seriously consider wearing a beacon. We're putting more lifts in to areas where the level of management is higher. It's something a lot of recreational skiers don't think about as a risk in lift served terrain, but should. Maybe denote higher risk, beacon recommended terrain on trail maps and lift corral signage better if we're not going to outright require showing the equipment before boarding those lifts??

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or just use the app. :nonono2:

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Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Minor thread drift. How far away are we from a fairly effective smart phone app beacon? One that runs at the same time as Ski Trax type stuff would be pretty popular if it actually worked. Doesn't have to be super powerful, but better than a RECCO tag would be adequate for most in bounds steep terrain folks. I mean they can add frequencies to your smart phone that turn it in to a universal remote control or 2 way talkie and other non phone frequency things. A beacon frequency pulse seems possible, maybe need an antenna to connect to the headphone or usb jack?

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Originally Posted by PNWbrit

or just use the app. :nonono2:

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Only if they can build one that works