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Poinjt me to the Laws of the Game. Because Law 12 says it's a PK where "one of the listed offences is committed by a player inside his own penalty area irrespective of the position of the ball." So, the rules don't say "at the position of the fouled player" that I've seen. Where are you reading differently?Quote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
Not sure if this is the official language, but it summarizes my understanding of the issue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespio
"Penalty Kick is defined in 18-1-bb as A kick awarded to a team because an opponent was charged with a direct free kick offense within his/her own penalty area. This definition is reinforced in Rule 14-1-1 that indicates: A penalty kick shall be awarded when a foul which ordinarily results in the awarding of a direct free kick, occurs within the offending team’s penalty area.
Thus, a penalty kick can only occur if a direct free kick offense occurs. As provided in definition 18-1-m, a rule infraction that results in a free kick is called a Foul, thus a Penalty Kick results from a foul inside the penalty area that would if outside the penalty area result in a direct kick being given to the opponent.
The fouls resulting in a direct kick are listed in Rule 13-2-1. They are: a. a player spits at, kicks, strikes, attempts to kick or strike, or jumps at an opponent; b. a player trips or attempts to trip an opponent; c. a goalkeeper attempts to strike, strikes or pushes an opponent with the ball; d. a player other than the goalkeeper in his/her own penalty area, deliberately handles the ball; e. a player pushes an opponent with the hand(s) or arm(s) extended from the body; f. a player holds an opponent; g. a player charges an opponent in a dangerous or reckless manner, or uses excessive force; and h. a player charges an opponent in a dangerous or reckless manner while the opponent has both feet off the ground."
All the statements in bold type reference the offense occurring at the position of the opponent. If the opponent is outside the box, I don't believe you can correctly award a PK. All that being said, I'm not a FIFA ref. Could be wrong, but this is always how I've understood it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
You're right. The women only play 5 times harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
As far as the reffing--aside from the obvious controversies--yellow vs red card for Johnson and the US PK--, I was thinking more of the first half, when the ref seemed to be calling inconsistenly and allowing the game to start getting out of hand. I thought the head butt on the header was particularly egregious. It may or may not have been intentional but the german player was very late and no where near the ball. There was also a German forearm to an American's head that looked pretty bad. The locker rooms must have gotten a talking to at the half since the second half was a lot cleaner, PK's aside.
It's always a shame to see any major game in any sport come down to referee decisions. Seems to be a particular problem in soccer, where the consequences--red card vs yellow, pk vs free kick--are so disparate.
I've never reffed soccer, only hockey, but it seems like a tough job for one on field ref to see what's going on.
That's all inferences. But Law 12 has the direct language that applies. Directly applicable language is not displaced by an inference from other language. Law 12 says give the PK if "the offence" occurs inside the box.Quote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
It's incredibly hard. I sat through some of the training, did a few games, and then gave up, since I knew I'd never be quick enough to have eyes everywhere, as required to do it well.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
That's a far less dumb post...Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I agree, the shitty reffing wasn't one sided, but the game deciding bad calls were. Don't know if that ref was even good enough to steer it that way had she been inclined to. Whatever, for today, shitty reffing is as much a part of the game as diving and stomping. Sucks, but the game is what it is - until the reffing strategy changes, cheating and bad calls will remain the deciding factor in many games.
That's more or less not correct. The infraction cannot occur without the contact (or very near contact), and the contact occurs where the opponent is, not where the defender's body is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespio
Also, the rules specifically stipulate which fouls can carry over the line, and obstruction is not one of them.
It's all mute anyway, as you can see in this replay (2nd video in the link) that when contact is made, both players are outside the penalty area.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/unit...rli-lloyd-goal
All this is a so what...The Krauts lost by two. Also, even to a casual observer of the game, the Americans outplayed them. The defense seemed downright stifling at the American end.
That's nto what the video shows at all. I think that video shows that the actual point of first contact, at the moment of first contact was ON the line. And the line is part of the box. At the very least, it's so close that even the camera angle could affect how we see it, and the ref's call is no less fallible than that video. Furthermore it shows that the offender was inside the box at the moment of contact. I think calling that a "bad call" is just an attempt to avoid giving the women the credit they deserve.
Regardless, it's my last comment on the subject. Looking forward to the remaining games.
Sure it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespio
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...Untitled_1.jpg
It's okay - you don't have to post again to acknowledge that I'm right.
It's true that the Americans generally outplayed them, but "generally outplaying" another team doesn't win or lose games, whereas "letting the ball bounce between you and your keeper and then pulling down the opposing team's forward in your own penalty area" is totally the sort of play that can win or lose a game, especially when it isn't called. For the 90+ minutes that the US dominated the game, those 3 seconds should have been our undoing.Quote:
Originally Posted by irul&ublo
Well, let's see if the officiating is as bad in the next game in 12 minutes.
But it was called. Just not as a red card. And Sasic shanked it. BoardDad generally has it right in post #97.Quote:
Originally Posted by stfu&gbtw
I'm not saying all of the calls were correct, I don't think they were. But that's almost always the case in most sports. If the Germans had outplayed the U.S., it wouldn't have mattered. If Sasic had made that PK and the German defense had prevented the second U.S. goal (which I haven't seen anybody complain about), then Germany would've won. So to say the lack of red card on Johnston and/or the call that led to the PK/first U.S. goal were outcome-determinative is just being argumentative.
I disagree, as would anyone familiar with the game. Playing with 10 (wo)men is not a trivial disadvantage, and the red card was 100% justified in that instance. Absolutely qualifies as a "missed" call. Sure, Sasic could have not missed the penalty. That's also not a trivial disadvantage. Doesn't excuse the missed call.Quote:
Originally Posted by LightRanger
Nice dive for a pk by England. Assholes.
Then a make-up call.
That was a goal.
Own goal in the 92nd minute. Woah.
Um. Wow. Not in the playbook, I guess.
So it's a rematch, then.
I was a licensed referee from 8th grade up till freshman year of college. I really did like it and it gave me some pretty decent walking around money when I was younger. Now when I got older and stuck to ref'ing only Premier teams, tournaments, 4 USSA Regionals and 1 National, the work sucked. I've never seen parents act so ugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
It was the dawn of the soccer parent and it wasn't pretty. I was told by a parent at one Regional that "THIS IS WHAT YOURE WORTH MOTHERFUCKER!!!" As he held a dollar bill above his head. I was only a line judge for that game too, I guess he didn't understand offsides like most parents at the time. Oh, and I was 14 :eek:
I saw 2 games forfeited because of parents behavior that year. Ugly, nasty people.
The premier club I played for, Internationals, was very good. Our first trip to regionals our coach saw this ugliness towards refs and told our parents that if they couldn't keep quiet then to stay in the car. Refs thanked us routinely.
Nice to see that even England's successful cheating can't overcome their inclination to choke. FA FTL!
COME ON OUR GIRLS!
You just lost all futbol credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
It continues to blow my mind that refs fall for such blatant diving. Fuck England for scoring that way. They deserved to lose.
Al la 1966 no less. Absolutely classic turn of events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape_Ape
Stevie understands...
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...g_2950855b.jpg
did you miss the post where I corrected my mistake? The women only play 5 times harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape_Ape
I completely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat