Brush with a smallish slide.

Lindahl,

raining on my part of the Earth's crust today below tree line, so I read your long thread rather than rushing out the door.

1. Summit has taken the time to care. Pay him the respect of listening. Or stop using the word mentor forever. I'd trade in my dog for a backcountry ski partner like that in the town I live in. Stop taking it (him) for granted.

2. In the world of mountains that is not a big avalanche. In the context of human frailty, that is not a small slide. Be a risk taker all you want, I don't care, but you are a soft target and that slide is bigger than you are.

3. For all your analytics, did you bother to climb back up to the crown wall and do another CT? How did it compare to your original?

4. Based on your level of training and most importantly your accumulated days of experience making decisions in avalanche terrain, most Advanced practitioners would call you Entry Level in terms of competency, though refusing to listen, so acting like a person who is Unaware.

5. Try being a little more humble.

6. I thought Blurred had already posted in this thread, and I agreed with him.

I'm top of the new page, but there were some good posts towards the end of the last age that should not be missed.

Skiing and spending time with the girlfriend, so I probably wont have time to respond and ask questions till Monday. But I think its silly to say that I'm not listening or being arrogant and egotistical, given that I've stated in multiple places that there's several assessments I made that I want to revisit and spend some time thinking about. If my ego was truly in the way, I wouldnt have hung around and participated this long.

As I said, I'm not putting myself in the same type of scenario until I've had time to learn everything I can, so those of you that care, no worries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Skiing and spending time with the girlfriend, so I probably wont have time to respond and ask questions till Monday.

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Where are you going? ..We want to watch. ..You know, take notes and shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

there's several assessments I made that I want to revisit and spend some time thinking about.

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GoPro that shit, brah. We all want to see you "revisit assessments."

Sit down, turn off the GaPer cam and shut up, MORON.

I'm not gonna call you out because...well...it has already been done and your not taking it well but I'll say this: I don't know you because this is the internet and it doesn't count. You fit the stereotype of someone fixing to get hurt. Your risk tolerance, education, pit diggin' etc. don't mean shit.

The goal is not to get in an avalanche. Step the fuck back, take a couple of bong rips, ski in bounds or do some meadow skipping. You are looking for signs of stability not signs of instability. You are using your knowledge to justify bad judgement.

Think about it this way...would you send your girlfriend down that slope with no beacon on? No? Why?

Realize that pushing the envelope will get you in trouble because the margin for error is so low and false positive reinforcement is common.

Don't Die!
Thanks

WOW!!! WTF dood. I'm a complete BC / Avy jong. Come here to listen and digest. I've been around the block time or two and tested fate myself in extreme sport but not to your extent.

The way I read this is "I am so rad because I look death in the eye and spit in it so fuck you." The Evel Knievel of snow, but he made money doing it. If you're lucky, you'll be the fool that angels protect or die without suffering much. If not, you'll end up like Bill Johnson. I feel for your mom. You really need someone you respect to give you a dope slap.

the next darwin award nominee goes to...

avalanches only kill you if you fear them. heh. love it. hi cookie!

rog

ya never answered my what is sidecountry and why you chose to tell us that those years were different.
No skins? only from resort gates?

I wouldn't worry till you have a hard time finding competent partners willing to tour w/ you.
I know the list of bros I call is much smaller this year is what it is some peoples risk tolerances, percieved or actual skill sets and habits are different
Strummer ftw again

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

As I said, I'm not putting myself in the same type of scenario until I've had time to learn everything I can, so those of you that care, no worries.

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Lindahl, thanks for the vid and starting this thread! learning helps with decision making, but you or anyone else will NEVER learn enough to predict a slide or non slide with 100% accuracy. it's that simple.
i respectfully agree with summits assessment. i hope your good luck continues with any more OB runs this winter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Think about it this way...would you send your girlfriend down that slope with no beacon on? No? Why?

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i like that. good way to think about conservative decision making.

i would. i hate my girlfriend.

rog

I enjoyed the VID. I would say you must have skied those lines many times in the past.

Regardless of Avi danger I woyld say you were flying without a net.

Not baggin on ya, I enjoyed it. But in the back country and leaving ZERO room for error

wow you are another moronic kid who just got off the bus and thinks he's super man

welcome to the mountains bro, you really hit it good when you talk all about how you can self resucue yourself and your partners

bad shit happens to good people and when it does it's not pretty

think about the decisions you have to make when the shit is going down all around you. Take the idea that your in a bad place with bad injuries you leave your partner rolled up in a sleeping bag, thinking he's all stabalized, you think the best idea is to leave him and go get help because a cell phone isn't going to save your ass where your at, sar shows up two days later because it took you over a day to get out and the weather was not good on top of that, sar finds your partner dead, you've lost a couple toes and fingers and you'll have to deal with your bad decsions the rest of your life. You'll become a case study and your partners name will go on the list of people who died on that mountain.

Stick around awhile this shit will happen to you. It's for real.

Then again slack country side country off the highway with a cell phone will always save you right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Summit

I've had to repair a friend's exploded bindings in King A's.

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Such a Macgiver. And also in the buttcrack, fixed so good I went hucking! Stupid fritchis. A, you are absolutely the best possible partner out there, for a lot of reasons. :)

Thanks for clearing up that timber falls is the same as King Arthur. I've also been in there skiing over avy debris. If it weren't for the deep instabilities that I can't get my mind around, I would want to be skiing it too. Sometimes sick of skiing bumps this year. So this slide didn't step down, good. I've seen plenty of guys, my friends, make snow move in this fashion and learn a lot from it. I was glad to be able to watch and learn, although I don't have the same risk tolerance I guess because I don't believe in my ability to outrun moving snow. Ill always take a safer line that i think wont slide. Just like other guys I've seen, lindahl can straightline out. But I'm sure he's going to modify his choices based on this experience on the snow and based on everything people are saying here. And he is early in his backcountry career so skiing more aggressively than he will later when he mellows and finds a rhythm that matches the mountains. He will start letting the mountains tell him when it's time to ski a line and it'll be easy to say no on a bad day or even a bad season and not feel like he's missing out.

I've helped hurt guys out before, I don't have a problem with that if they choose that risk. There is always the possibility of getting hurt. And if you don't want to help people that are hurt or even get themselves dead in the backcountry, then don't do rescue. Cause that's the program. A, I know you are willing to help anyone, do whatever it takes to help. We've had this conversation before. I think your words to lindahl and everyone here are valuable,as far as the snow science and risk evaluation, spot on. It's just that I wouldn't use the rescue angle as a deterrent.

Jeez I had such a brutal day coming out of utopia on one ski, not hurt, but just so hard to do and time consuming. There were people with me that were really supportive and I'm grateful for it. And I am always wiling to help any partner and not tell him what he should or shouldn't ski. Of course I will say if I think something might rip out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

You are looking for signs of stability not signs of instability.

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Oh snap!

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you"

Some biblical shit for your decision making process.

Fastfred and others, there's really no reason to be an asshole when commenting on this thread. Just fucking offer constructive criticism without being a douchebag.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Summit

Lindahl, there are a lot of smart people posting in this thread. Some are very experienced. Some know the area well. Some know you. I don't think you are really listening to them, at least not very much. Every response from you feels like a justification or rationalization. I see very little reflection and consideration. I think you started this thread looking to learn, but your ego was looking for validation and it is getting in the way of your learning. I've seen it plenty of times before post-accident. One avalanche that comes to mind, two people were caught, one buried, and one broke his leg. The guy who was buried only had a few sore spots. He learned nothing and changed nothing. He reasoned around all the glaring signs he missed. The man who broke his leg is finally skiing again. He was humble and learned.

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This really nails it right here, to the "t".

Lindahl, you are a FKNA awesome skier, and I love your hucking videos. I have no problem with what you did. At first I thought, "Well if you meant to do that, than whatever, that's cool." But,

I'll tell you what I experienced.

I had a avalanche incident just over three years ago, and everything I said was just a justification or rationalization. There was no way I made a mistake that day, everyone commenting was just a bunch of pussies. These people just didn't understand me. (I still kind of think that people, in some regards, are a bunch of pussies.)

But eventually, everyone's "douchebag comments" started to click in my brain. It really is just luck. There's no way you could have predicted, effectively, that the slide wouldn't have stepped down or ran wider, into your safe zone.

I personally don't care what other people do. It's your decision, and I don't understand why some people get so upset about it. I have at least the exact same risk tolerance as you. I flip off cliffs, I will solo 5.7's and I will otherwise engage in behaviors other people consider "too dangerous". I am 100% an adrenaline addict.

I guess it just took me a while to realize how lucky I was. I narrowly avoided death. Now I always keep that in the back of my mind when I go out touring.

I'm different from you though, in that I'm not strictly a "powder hound". I'm mainly a ski mountaineer. And my rationalization, NOW is that, "Well I can just come back and hit this mountain in the Spring." Don't get me wrong, I love slaying the shit out of untracked lines, but sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

Who knows though, I'm a big risk taker. Taking risks makes me feel more alive. I might have done the same shit as you, but I don't really want to venture into avy terrain all that much, this season.

I really can't fucking wait for April/May.

But cheers though, amigo. I also like hucking, so we will probably run into each other sometime at Vail. Just live for another day, brotha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

I really can't fucking wait for April/May.

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Seconded.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fastfred

bad shit happens to good people.

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yes, because the higher power wants the good ones all to him/herself. be a non humble dooshbag and you'll last a long time on planet earth.

rog

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

These people just didn't understand me. Taking risks makes me feel more alive.

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So what if 2 out of 3 of my trips turned into SAR calls, who hasnt had a few SAR callouts?
MORON!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

Lindahl, you are a FKNA awesome skier

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High speed hacking is not good skiing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mrwaffles989

I have at least the exact same risk tolerance as you....I flip off cliffs, I will solo 5.7's and I will otherwise engage in behaviors other people consider "too dangerous".....I am 100% an adrenaline addict...... I'm mainly a ski mountaineer.....I'm a big risk taker........... Taking risks makes me feel more alive.

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watching mrwaffles and lindahl bragging about thier "risk tolerances" is like watching two teenage girls fighting over a prom dress.



so mrwaffles, since you are a self-proclaimed adrenaline addict, ski mountaineer etc, tell us about your top 3 adventures.
we promise not to laugh.

the real dopes in this thread are the ones that can't let it go....I'm pretty sure Lindahl and others know how you feel, no need to keep being a dick just for the sake of being one. If you've made your point and have nothing else to add, then GTFO.

Good thread Lindahl. I've tried to interpret your post as objectively as possible.

* The character of the current snowpack in Colorado is distinctly unstable.
* You observed unstable snow in the area.
* You triggered an avalanche big enough to bury, injure, or kill a skier.

These things happen from time-to-time. Here's something to think about:

* Experience is not the same as skill.
* Skill means knowing how to do something the right way.

Here is a great example of how experience and skill are not the same:

http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...ic=23827.0here

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Originally Posted by Summit

I have seen the look on the faces of family and friends at the trailhead as they are told of their loved one's death. I'd hate to ever have a story about you. Your daughter would too.

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This is the best non-technical remark in the whole thread.

Bring this conversation face-to-face:

http://www.denverpost.com/extremes/ci_20057517

I'm going to add my own data point for the discussion of risk, risk management and risk tolerance.

A long time ago my adrenaline sport was motorcycle roadracing. I felt pretty comfortable with the risks. On one fine spring day I fell off, got run over and ended up with a broken fibula. It was all part of the game. I even had a friend drive me to the hospital so the ambulance could stay at the track so the races could continue. Everything was fine and under control until a piece of fat, or marrow or something which had found its way in to my bloodstream, found its way out through my lungs at 1AM. If I had been anywhere except an ICU, I would have drowned on my own blood. As it was, I was minutes from getting a chest tube when things got under control. I breathed pure oxygen from a mask for a couple hours. It was easily the most terrifying thing I've been through.

I think about that when I'm in the back country. How you're never really completely in control of a situation, and how small problems can turn into big problems in unexpected ways.