Hey nickwm21, I'm curious what you thought of the Corvus. I'm a fan. Was also a big fan of the OG Cochise, and liked but didn't love gen 2.
Edit: you answered in a post a few seconds before mine.
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Hey nickwm21, I'm curious what you thought of the Corvus. I'm a fan. Was also a big fan of the OG Cochise, and liked but didn't love gen 2.
Edit: you answered in a post a few seconds before mine.
Yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
Too add a quick comparo: Cochise 106 vs Corvus (rockered).
- Similar maneuverability in tight/tech, bumps, trees
- Similar groomer performance
- Corvus wins in pow
- Cochise wins big on harder crud, windbuff, etc.
- Slight nod to the Cochise in softer crud and chop
- Cochise probably has a higher speed limit.
*The mount points are pretty different… I never moved the Corvus mount back but I think that would have improved it a touch…
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Interesting. One reason I like the Corvus a lot is that I find them much more engaging on groomers and lower angle snow than the older Cochises. The Corvus tips engage at a lower edge angle and the tails have they just a bit of energy in them which makes a big difference when I'm skiing part of the day with my kid or somewhere with long runouts back to the lift. I think I prefer the Corvus in bumps for a similar reason. I can use the tails in a way that I never could with Cochises. If the 106's close that gap on mellower terrain and bumps, and also smooth out shitty snow nearly as well as the OG's then I want a pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
Interesting - the 2017 Bonafide 187 is one of my all time favorite skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
On the new Cochise, do you find a big enough difference in off-trail performance versus those Bonafides? Would you say the Cochise is significantly looser? Is the tip/tail flex on the Cochise any softer than the 2017 Bonafide?
IMO, the Cochise106 is significantly looser skiing than the previous generation Bonafides. The Cochise106 is a charger and is really at home off piste. I couldn’t make friends with it on groomers so sold my 185’s. If I primarily skied off piste alpine zones, I would have been more keen to keep them. They aren’t as versatile as previous generation Bonafides, IMO.
Interesting, I really like mine on the groomers until it’s super icy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VON
It's interesting how the frequent use of "interesting" seems to be a very polite call-out on people's skiing ability, ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
Got out on the gunsmoke today for the first time this season and gosh it’s still such a great ski. The 193 has awesome stability, great edge hold and you can smear you’re turns with such little effort but precision. It also just has more of a jib feel than the rustlers and is great for tricks and landing switch.
I know wasatchblack isn’t a big fan of the Gunsmoke, but there really is nothing out there as good for strong freeride / freestyle skiing.
Wish they’d do a mini run of these like they did the bodacious, a few of the blizzard sponsored FWQ/FWT agree too
I guess another way of saying it is that compared to an Volkl M102 or K108 the Cochise 106 skis groomers like shit. But, the Cochise 106 has a more natural feel off trail than either the Volkls. I think the Cochise 106 is a good ski for the right skier, but I doubt it will have the broad appeal that the OG Cochise had.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
SexyQuote:
Originally Posted by peglegg
Still don't understand the rationale behind the chopping of the Gunsmoke and peacemaker. They could have kept those two skis in the lineup and come out with the rustler series and still have a following of people flocking to the Gunsmoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
That being said, the M-free as a Colorado ski is arguably a better solution for me.
#MakeBlizzardGreatAgain
A) I bet making the Rustlers is cheaper than the Gunsmokes and Peacemakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMarkus
B) They would be concerned about cannibalism in the line.
C) I bet they sell way more Rustler 10’s than they ever did Peacemakers. It’s like the official ski of “will never be better than blue groomers” skiers.
No one bought them. Probably due to years of atrocious graphics and poor names. Rustlers are arguably better skis for most skiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthMarkus
Maybe the R9s and R10s, but the R11 is inferior to the Gunsmoke in every conceivable way.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
The Gunsmoke wasn’t perfect, actually that’s wrong., it was perfect. The Blank is the closest replacement, but the turn radius is a bit too small. I like my Blanks, but I’d buy 2 pairs of 193 Gunsmokes if Blizzard did a limited run.
Wasatch has asked what’s different and why we like the Gunsmoke so much, and I struggle to put it into words. It had all of the feeling that we love from Blizzard, but still had a looseness that made it so easy to ski in technical terrain. The ski was consistent, and the R11 I feel like the tip/tail just isn’t. Where the metal ends it just doesn’t feel like the rest of the ski. On my R9s that’s 100% ok because I ski over the middle of that ski, but on a bigger/wider/longer ski, I like more consistency.
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From a material standpoint Rustler is more expensive to make than Gunsmoke/Peacemaker was. However when you sell 50x more it’s easy to justify.
Prolly never see a re release of of either ski.
The skis were challenged by so many things other than the skis themselves which sucks.
The rippers in our shop all loved the Gunsmoke, but that didn't translate to sales. Now they all have the Rustler 11, which sells like crazy . . . too bad they sold out in November.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
I skied my new 185 cochise 106 today on 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
East coast man made groomers and I thought they were great. My everyday ski is a brahma and the cochise are kind of a fatter brahma. They prefer a longer turn, but I could make short turns on them.
I'd love to hear more on your thoughts about the Cochise 106 vs. the OG. Because I also love the OG (in the 185 — would be curious to try the 193s, but they're probably overkill for my 165lb) and am looking for a replacement for when I inevitably kill my current pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
I’m glad to hear someone figured that skied out. [emoji16] I really liked them off piste but never jived with them on firmer stuff. Felt like a lot more effort to get them to turn on groomers versus something like an M102 or K108. Might be I just prefer the feel of those better. I was really disappointed that I didn’t click with the Cochise 106 since I like the OG version so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by half-fast
My firm snow ski is a 187 Brahma 88, which I feel like I can handle just fine. I never got the Brahma vibes from the new Cochise, but again we just weren’t meant to be a pair.
(Double Post)
I presume you are comparing it only to the R11 192 (which wasatchback explained to me here is a not a longer 188 but has a beefier build, if I remember right?).Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
You forgot to start your post with "Interesting, "Quote:
Originally Posted by half-fast
Numbers don’t lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
I get it, I’ll keep hoping, but it’s pretty simple to see out skiing. You see R11s everywhere, almost never saw Gunsmokes.
Yes, only the 193s. I didn’t ski the 18X, but would of had I lived back east.
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Go read my post #1912 - if you have any specific questions, I’m happy to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by HAB
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Bonafides (carbon tip era) are heavier, stiffer tail, slightly stiffer tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by VON
Cochise is looser.
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Skied the cochise 106 in 6-10” of heavy cut up snow today. What a blast. It was like I was skiing on groomers
Thanks, missed that one before. Good info.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
I'm intrigued by the 106 being such a big improvement in steep, tight spots — because I already like the OG a lot there. It's a blend of a lot of stability/good suspension while still being quite loose and easy to pivot that works super well for me. So that sounds rad.
Guess I need to find a pair.
One of the biggest differences between the Cochise 106 and the OG is how the sidecut is laid out on the ski. This is why people might say the OG skis better on groomers than the present one.
Original Bodacious, Cochise, Bonafide had a much more carving ski approach to the sidecut design. This is what happens when you’re an Austrian brand that hasn’t made that many successful freeride skis. Even though the radius printed on the ski was long there were a bunch of different radius’s in the tip and tail similar to a carving ski where the higher the edge angle the more side cut you’d engage. This is why if you’re a good skier and can lay the ski way up and stand on it through the turn you could pull a much tighter radius than what was labeled on the ski. It made them pretty damn fun on groomers for a wide ski with a seemingly long radius.
However in order to make this side cut design work the skis had to be very torsionally stiff at the tip and tail. All this combined is what hurt the performance in steep/ technical terrain for skiers that maybe didn’t smear or pivot the skis but instead would tip them up. They could feel pretty demanding and it was easy to get out of balance.
New Cochise 106 has a whole different approach to sidecut design and torsional stiffness. They still arc really well but maybe don’t have that crazy pull through the middle of the turn that the OG had. However I think they’re much more nimble in tighter, steeper, technical terrain/conditions. The tails release much easier as they have less sidecut at the ends of the skis and they’re a bit softer torsionally. It’s easier to recover if you get out of balance and they’re just less punishing if you’re not on your game.
Whoa, ski science. Blizzard has been making great free ride skis at least since the Titan Pro and even Titan 9. They got a little off track with the IQ stuff, but at the time a ski/binding rail package was what marketing dictated. I think what Blizzard never did well until the Bone/Cochise/Bodacious/Brahma line came out was marketing. Also, its approach to just softening up its freeride line (Peacemaker, Kabookie, Bushwacker) was indeed whack.
How were those skis “whack” exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by schindlerpiste
And are you saying the best selling ski in the United States ever, is all due to marketing?
I don't know what the best selling ski you are referring to, but if it is the Bone, I'd say a lot of it has to do with marketing and what is good and fairly easy ski for a lot of ok skiers. I have owned OG Cochise, Bodacious and Bushwacker. While the bushwhacker was OK, it was just a soft ski that was not that light and had a clear speed limit. They were whack in that they were only softer versions of other more popular skis manufactured by Blizzard. I call that laziness. In the 95-105 underfoot ski I'd prefer Kastle, Nordica, Head and Stockli offerings. Bones are/were popular to the masses in the same way as say the Volkl 5 star, but they were really not ever the best in their catagory.
Any way, just stating my opinion.
Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask, and/or has been clarified countless times.
As far as I can tell the Rustler11 and Sheeva11 share the same construction w/ different top sheets... am i missing anything there?
Has been asked and answered. Wasatchback says the only difference is a single wood stringer in the core, rest of the construction is identical.Quote:
Originally Posted by skrtr
Very much lookin forward to those R12 promised by XavierD for 22/23.
So far M–Frees 118 have to do the job.
Lol, I can’t promise shit from Blizzard. Just wishful thinkingQuote:
Originally Posted by roQer
It definitely came up in conversation at our meetings in Alta when we were testing some future designs for Rustler. Prolly not gonna happen for 23/24 but you never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by roQer
Also there is a construction tweak to Bonafide/Brahma for 22/23. We removed a small amount of rubber and changed the core thickness slightly. Definitely improved the skis. Been doing some back to back testing with present models and 22/23 version with some accounts at Jackson and DV and it’s a pretty noticeable difference. Quicker, more nimble and lively. They don’t ski as long as the present ones tend to.
Due to the high pressure I’ve been on my old Bonafides lately. With the new Cochise 106 in the quiver, I might need to sell the bonafides and step down to a Brahma or Kendo. I was super happy with Bones (still am), but there is a decent amount of overlap with the Cochise now…. It covers such a large swath of conditions. Something that excels on groomers but can still make icy bumps and off groom shit snow fun might be needed…
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Don’t be afraid to check out the R9 also. I had both the R9 and the Brahma for a season in my quiver. My thought was I’d be on the Brahmas most of the time and then when I was skiing inbounds low snow with a free ride kid we hung out with Id ski the R9s. I was completely wrong. Ended up skiing the R9s almost every low snow day and selling the Brahmas.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwm21
I’m looking at possibly moving back east or to Texas or to London, the R9 will go with me anywhere I go. It carves nearly (90%) as well as the Brahma, but is at least 90% easier in the off piste shit show snow we try to make fun.
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Any changes/tweaks to the curent Cochise ??Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk
I guess nobody else noticed these over on skitalk? Looking forward to learning more.
Those are the old Gunsmoke line. Been dead for awhile because despite being genuinely loved by most folks who got on them, few people got on them. Blame the graphics and the market generally going away from large twin tip skis.
If you find a good pair of 193s skibird will likely circumnavigate the world blindfolded to buy them from you. I’d likely buy some good condition 186 or 193s. Preferably the white topsheet or the only non bull topsheet.