Coronavirus complaint/commiseration thread.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

^^ You leverage it to borrow more money.

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Two things being overlooked: At what point in your life, career and balance sheets does one stop and at what point does it become "your" money.

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Sure. It's a risk, just like opening a restaurant or anything else. My real point is don't assign morality at random.

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Who's assigning morality at random? It's mostly about balance and in these balances, one does assign morality, but not at random.

Being over leveraged can be a moral issue but more importantly it's a risks/rewards issue.

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Originally Posted by riser3

I oppose the whole STR thing because it fucks over working people by jacking up the LTR market. STR is simple greed. If you can't afford a second home outright, then don't buy one. It circumvents laws, regulations, and taxes regarding hotels and such. Fuck Air BnB and VRBO. Real estate should not be an investment. People need affordable places to live.

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Debt does not work for me. Whether it involves RE, or autos., boats, toys, education or anything else, I prefer to buy with cash. If I can't pay for something, then I do without. My fiscal philosophy may not be right for everyone, but that is the way I roll. I know nothing about the circumvention of laws, taxes and/or regs., but I am not in the camp of buying with a mortgage , and using personal funds to invest in the market in the hopes of realizing a greater rate of return. Too much risk for my taste, whereas investment in RE carries minimal risk. Sure, liquidity may be an issue, but that's why we have nest eggs. I just don't buy into the notion that it is wise to "buy" with debt, because the money can make you more money (ROI) if invested elsewhere.
Personal choices.

I've always been on the no-debt train and we don't owe anybody anything beyond this month's credit card bills. Always pushed principal payments forward, refi'd to shorter terms when rates were good, etc. etc. We've definitely missed upside but right now I'm pretty happy with our choices.

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Originally Posted by DJSapp

I'm an essential worker with the construction business, so no disruption on our income side. We've been trying our hardest to eat out a couple times a week. Only at locally owned joints, and tipping excessively, like 30 to 50% with a hard floor at 10 bucks. I want my local restaurants to survive. The folks I'm tipping are usually the owner or part of their family.

Just ask them how they're holding up and their eyes will tell you everything. They're terrified of the amount of human contact they have. They're terrified their revenue has dropped 60 percent. Help them however you can, even if you can't afford to tip. The food service size packs are likely going underused and if they're open, it needs to move. With bar service closed, they're not pulling in that added revenue either.

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Same for me. 2x a week for takeout, double the normal tips.

Another thing to consider for tipping, a few of our normal eateries emailed about how they are pooling tips for the entire team to make it through the downturn. I've gone to asking the person how they are splitting tips, if they split them, I'm usually adding more to my tip. The one I ate at this Friday said they pooled them up to the weekend and now back to normal. We were dining inside, but 50% of normal tables and very slow. I probably tipped the server 25-30%.

Complaint.

My Mother is in a bad way again, and I can’t visit, probably never will be able to visit.

Vibes to everyone in a similar situation.


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++++VIBES+++ sent your way.

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Originally Posted by iceman

I've always been on the no-debt train and we don't owe anybody anything beyond this month's credit card bills. Always pushed principal payments forward, refi'd to shorter terms when rates were good, etc. etc. We've definitely missed upside but right now I'm pretty happy with our choices.

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Yep. Work, save, invest.
I can't really explain my dislike for debt in terms of morality.

You can look to the bible for the rants on usury.

I just have a hard time justifying being at the bottom of a financial pyramid scheme. I don't want to pay someone for using their capital, so I've tried to minimize that.

Not to say that I haven't ever leveraged.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Yep. Work, save, invest.
I can't really explain my dislike for debt in terms of morality.

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Yeah it was never a moral issue, my Dad was a doctor and absolutely terrible with money as many doctors are (and he was worse than most) and I lived through all that and it was actually kind of amazingly terrible all the shit that happened. I should write a book about it. It left a mark on me. Right from the start I was pretty horrified by the thought of debt, knowing that the wheels can come off in spectacular fashion when you get stuck.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Complaint.

My Mother is in a bad way again, and I can’t visit, probably never will be able to visit.

Vibes to everyone in a similar situation.


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I'm sorry, that's a horrible feeling.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Complaint.

My Mother is in a bad way again, and I can’t visit, probably never will be able to visit.

Vibes to everyone in a similar situation.


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Sorry man


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Cono, really sorry to hear that man.

All the money is still coming in, the craft brews are closed, ski hill closed ( fucked knee anyway ) nowhere to spend money and no debt, i'm actualy net ahead 4-500$ a month in this pandemic

A lot of folks were 500$ from not covering all the bills every month before the shutdown IMO the north American addiction to debt is gona fuck a lot of people up when this shakes out

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Complaint.

My Mother is in a bad way again, and I can’t visit, probably never will be able to visit.

Vibes to everyone in a similar situation.


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I'm sorry, man, that sucks.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

One of the best things that is happening at this moment of financial turmoil is the destruction of the Airbnb industry, worldwide. It will dump tons of apartments on the long term market that have been taken out for tourists. Sucks for me and many others that have been using these apartments, but, overall, for most cities, positive. I've felt kinda guilty the last few trips to Europe, knowing that the apartments I've been using really should be available to locals. Sure was cheap, though. Don't know that I'll be able to afford a month in Europe again when all this blows over, but, no way I'm getting on a plane for 9 hours for a very long time. We'll see in a few years.

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I have never used Airbnb. On my Spain trip I budgeted for decent hotels. It was a conscious decision and I had to put away extra cash for it.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Complaint.

My Mother is in a bad way again, and I can’t visit, probably never will be able to visit.

Vibes to everyone in a similar situation.


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Condolences CE.

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Originally Posted by iceman

Yeah it was never a moral issue, my Dad was a doctor and absolutely terrible with money as many doctors are (and he was worse than most) and I lived through all that and it was actually kind of amazingly terrible all the shit that happened. I should write a book about it. It left a mark on me. Right from the start I was pretty horrified by the thought of debt, knowing that the wheels can come off in spectacular fashion when you get stuck.

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My parents were tight with money, never over extended and very wary of banks.

But once I split home and had to scrabble along for 10 years on shit jobs and grad student stipends, that got real old real fast. So I'm pretty leery of debt but I remember having shitty jobs so I've always tipped 20%.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Condolences CE.

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Me too. Hang in there.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Complaint.

My Mother is in a bad way again, and I can’t visit, probably never will be able to visit.

Vibes to everyone in a similar situation.


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I have some friends in similar situations. I can't begin to imagine how it feels. Very sorry to hear this.

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Originally Posted by riser3

I have never used Airbnb. On my Spain trip I budgeted for decent hotels. It was a conscious decision and I had to put away extra cash for it.

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Just throwing out that for those with small children, STRs are a godsend. You got a kitchen to house and fix all the snacks and you got a living room or even outdoor space for playtime. Traveling in hotels sucks compared to that.

Vibes for you and your family Cono. Hope there are better days ahead.

Does anyone remember the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-9? I was 10, but I don't remember this lethal pandemic. It's hard to believe that the gov't allowed Woodstock with this going around. I just found this article.
https://www.aier.org/article/woodsto...of-a-pandemic/

100,000 deaths in the USA! I guess the Viet Nam war deflected this from the media, and the media didn't have nearly as much clout as it carries today. Still...

Any way, great article. It is certainly worth your attention, and maybe even a discussion. Maybe Old Goat, or Iceman?

Attachment 328552

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Originally Posted by LegoSkier

Just throwing out that for those with small children, STRs are a godsend. You got a kitchen to house and fix all the snacks and you got a living room or even outdoor space for playtime. Traveling in hotels sucks compared to that.

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We have a few places we went semi regularly when the kids were young. Hotels , motels, and cabins with kitchens. Not this unregulated Airbnb stuff. Regulations need to be followed and taxes paid. And in cities we would look for the long term business suites that had kitchens.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

Does anyone remember the Hong Kong Flu of 1968-9? I was 10, but I don't remember this lethal pandemic. It's hard to believe that the gov't allowed Woodstock with this going around. I just found this article.
https://www.aier.org/article/woodsto...of-a-pandemic/

100,000 deaths in the USA! I guess the Viet Nam war deflected this from the media, and the media didn't have nearly as much clout as it carries today. Still...

Any way, great article. It is certainly worth your attention, and maybe even a discussion. Maybe Old Goat, or Iceman?

Attachment 328552

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Less Karen’s
More hippies
It’s an interesting factoid

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Less Karen’s
More hippies
It’s an interesting factoid

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It was discussed in the main covid rat flu thread

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Originally Posted by LegoSkier

Just throwing out that for those with small children, STRs are a godsend. You got a kitchen to house and fix all the snacks and you got a living room or even outdoor space for playtime. Traveling in hotels sucks compared to that.

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Originally Posted by riser3

We have a few places we went semi regularly when the kids were young. Hotels , motels, and cabins with kitchens. Not this unregulated Airbnb stuff. Regulations need to be followed and taxes paid. And in cities we would look for the long term business suites that had kitchens.

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Absolutely, plain hotel rooms suck when you have kids, especially young ones. At minimum, having a door to close when the kid is sleeping is key.

I think the STR thing is great, and have no issues with it as a concept. But I do think it needs to be licensed, taxed, and regulated in many of the ways that hotels are. That will make them cost more and weed out some people from the business, and thus limit the number of STRs on the market, but that's part of the point. Because it's a little ridiculous that a 2 BR house can cost less than a hotel room, as if maid service and having a "front desk" was worth the difference in cost.