Ask the experts

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Originally Posted by Duffman

So the bike is a 2019 Fuel EX 9.8, think they are looking for $1600 or so but with my wife being smaller no way she's going to want to push around the carbon 40mm ID wheels with 27.5 x2.8 tires. Would need to budget for 29 wheels and tires. Would anyone consider this or just keep looking ? What's the budget for decent (doesn't need to be carbon ) wheels and tires these days?

Pretty sure its this bike with an updated dropper and dropper lever .

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...omens/p/23607/

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What tires are on it? Some of those 2.8" plus tires are basically the same size as other brands 2.6" non-plus tires... Doesn't help with the 40mm rim though.

I enjoyed the 2.8" Rekon+ I had on my 27.5+ hardtail with a 35mm rim. It definitely still felt like a "big" tire and could get squirmy, but it wasn't too heavy, rolled well, and I never had any problems with flats.

Moved the nice 35mm wheelset to my wife's bike when I sold it--hers came with 2.6" Ardent Race tires on 30mm rims, but it was only a couple mm of difference when you actually measured them...despite being wider, the much nicer wheelset was a worthy upgrade.

So if they are nice carbon rims...maybe the 40mm wouldn't be too crazy even if you went down to 2.6" to open up your tire options? The 3.0-3.2" side of plus may be completely dead, but I think the 2.8" side almost lives on and has expanded selection: they just call it 2.6" now.

As for the 29 conversion, I'd make sure it actually works--it was common for the earlier plus bikes designed around the 3+" tires, but some of the later models with 2.8 tires weren't meant for it and would probably ride just fine if you dropped to a narrower 27.5 rim and smaller tire.

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Originally Posted by singlesline

As for the 29 conversion, I'd make sure it actually works--it was common for the earlier plus bikes designed around the 3+" tires, but some of the later models with 2.8 tires weren't meant for it and would probably ride just fine if you dropped to a narrower 27.5 rim and smaller tire.

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With the treks, I believe the 29 and plus frames were the same, but the 29's came with a 10mm shorter fork (130 on the 29, 140 on the plus).

Not 100% certain on that though.

I wouldn't deal kill because of 27.5+ (I've only tried 29+) Probably still relevant for ridged and hard tails or less aggressive riders. If fast or lighter is needed, you can get away with less aggressive tires and lower PSI for less aggressive riding. 2.8 xc/light trail will have more grip then same 2.4 tire at lower "comfort" speeds, not much drawback or possibly beneficial.
New 29er wheelsets that might be good enough on sale, probably starting at $400 for alu and carbon $700-$1000.
If you want bike as 29er and you think $2000+ is still a good deal for that bike, think about it. Someone else could chime in with 2.6" on 40mm rims?

That carbon 27.5+ wheelset is like under 1700g and the 2.8 XR4 around 950g. (not a weight penalty vs 29er)

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Originally Posted by Meconium

I wouldn't deal kill because of 27.5+ (I've only tried 29+) Probably still relevant for ridged and hard tails or less aggressive riders. If fast or lighter is needed, you can get away with less aggressive tires and lower PSI for less aggressive riding. 2.8 xc/light trail will have more grip then same 2.4 tire at lower "comfort" speeds, not much drawback or possibly beneficial.
New 29er wheelsets that might be good enough on sale, probably starting at $400 for alu and carbon $700-$1000.
If you want bike as 29er and you think $2000+ is still a good deal for that bike, think about it. Someone else could chime in with 2.6" on 40mm rims?

That carbon 27.5+ wheelset is like under 1700g and the 2.8 XR4 around 950g. (not a weight penalty vs 29er)

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Good to know. I know nothing about + size bikes. Would the rolling resistance be significantly worse than a standard width tire? Our area is mostly rolling hills and constant pedaling vs winch and plummet style riding .

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Originally Posted by Duffman

Good to know. I know nothing about + size bikes. Would the rolling resistance be significantly worse than a standard width tire? Our area is mostly rolling hills and constant pedaling vs winch and plummet style riding .

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I actually liked my 27.5+ (hardtail) better when I rode in areas that were more like that. Especially after I upgraded to the Rekon+ and a nice wheelset.

I felt like the extra volume allowed you to trade off on compound+casing. My Rekon+s were MaxxTerra with plain EXO and still had oodles of grip and no flat problems.

That said--it is definitely not a super fast XC tire or something. It was sensitive to pressure--could easily get squirmy and slow if too low or overly bouncy if too high.

Personally, I wouldn't be buying plus again if I were looking at new bikes. But I'm also 6'2, so have little reason to not go with 29" wheels, and while the 27.5+ seemed like a good compromise when I only had a single MTB, I just can't find a place for it now that I have a quiver. A good deal on a used bike for a smaller rider for whom it will be their only bike? Might not be a bad option, especially if you do have alternative wheel options if she ends up not liking the plus tires.

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Originally Posted by Duffman

Good to know. I know nothing about + size bikes. Would the rolling resistance be significantly worse than a standard width tire? Our area is mostly rolling hills and constant pedaling vs winch and plummet style riding .

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I think, no? My opinion is looking back a few years, didn’t like + for aggressive riding but rolled around nice for family speed. Strong wind was a noticeable disadvantage. Correct PSI is magnified, I would 100% get a good low psi gauge like this. I’ve had problem with digital but other like em. A few psi to high and you got yourself a $1600 bouncy ball.

https://www.thejaycloud.com/product/...iations=133039

You’ll have to be careful about finding the right tire pressure, but my opinion is that it isn’t really that much slower for me on same bike and trails on 29 vs 27.5+. Maybe 5% slower overall, but might pay off on the rock traction climbing around the Wiss which I presume is your local trails.

They don’t corner the same, especially at speed, but if I’m presuming the location you’re not railing high speed corners there anyway.

If the wheels are as light as mentioned the gap in rolling resistance is probably low enough w an xc-ish tire at 2.8


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Originally Posted by singlesline

Personally, I wouldn't be buying plus again if I were looking at new bikes. But I'm also 6'2, so have little reason to not go with 29" wheels, and while the 27.5+ seemed like a good compromise when I only had a single MTB, I just can't find a place for it now that I have a quiver. A good deal on a used bike for a smaller rider for whom it will be their only bike? Might not be a bad option, especially if you do have alternative wheel options if she ends up not liking the plus tires.

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think that kind of sums it up

All other downsides aside, plus bikes barely exist anymore. Trek was the company that pushed plus bikes the hardest, and plus bikes have basically disappeared from their lineup.

That means no one's gonna be coming out with new plus tire designs, and over the next few years, I expect tire manufacturers will slowly phase out plus tires from their lineup.

Plus bikes are the new 26". They're dead.

I have a Surly Karate Monkey with 27.5+ tires, fully rigid, on i40 rims -- 3.0 front, 2.8 rear, mostly because I found a good deal on a faster rolling tire for the rear.

It seems like a good type of bike for somewhere flatter, or sandy. Faster speeds and it gets bouncy quickly. I may keep it and try bikepacking, or it may return to Craigslist from whence it came...

Someone asked about 2.6” on 40mm and I’ve never tried it, just wanted to chime in that I think 35mm is the sweet spot for 2.6”, good profile shape and I can corner hard. I use 29 x 2.6” on 35mm with my steel hardtail that is also plus compatible, and for my high traction area I have never had a reason to try 27+.
I imagine 2.6” on a 40mm rim would feel like 2.2” on a 30mm in terms of squaring up the tire and making it feel stiffer. Probably workable but not as ideal as 2.8”.
I think one key Duffman mentioned is the area is constant rolling and not winch and plummet, which is more harmonious with adding rotational mass / increasing moment of inertia. A high moment of inertia resists acceleration and deceleration / increases the amount of force needed for those things, which means slow to spin up or brake, but also rolls over shit with ease. It would also increase gyroscopic effect, which means slower to steer but more stable under impacts that might want to deflect orientation.

Junior put my 3 grand kids on + tired bikes and that was their suspension

I'm mostly see 27+ on:

1. MX wheel full power ebike rears
2. People riding fatbikes in the summer

It makes sense in those roles.

It is otherwise a silly idea in the modern day. I remember putting a Michy 2.8 DH tire on my 2004 GT DH bike with 20somethingmm Azonic 26" wheels back in the day. That was a fatty fatty boombalatty... 7" travel bike weighed as much as a modern full powered ebike.

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Originally Posted by Andeh

Personally, I'd rule out the Sniper (without even having looked at the specs) just because I think Intense is a joke brand now. I'd pass on the Izzo because YT's warranty rep is awful, and odds of breaking a little bike are high. Of the SJ and Spur, I'd go for the Spur due to the "never want to be torn" bit.

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Well, might be a Stumpy build since nobody has Spur frames.

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Originally Posted by summit

Well, might be a Stumpy build since nobody has Spur frames.

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You might want to look at the Epic Evo if considering a SJ. A buddy has one and it's absurdly light and fast. If you'd build the Spur with SID/SIDLuxe suspension, it'd be a closer match, but if you'd do a 34/Pike & Deluxe/Float, the SJ is more of a match.

I found this thread where someone measured Rekon 2.6 vs Rekon+ 2.8: https://www.mtbr.com/threads/maxxis-...izing.1195996/

They seem close enough to be nearly identical (and I don't think the Rekon 2.6 is the fattest 2.6 tire out there).

I think true plus tire availability will be an issue going forwards (it is already a pretty limited selection), but you could probably run any of the bigger-measuring 2.6" tires without issue or causing excess pedal strikes...and I don't think they are going away anytime soon as many manufacturers continue to sell 27.5 bikes in smaller/women's sizes.

Still not sure how that works out with a 40mm rim though. Might get overly square.

Can probably find decent 35 (or 30) wheels for good prices as 29" continues to take over. Here's a set of Ibis carbon wheels for $450 (I think these are the same as the current S35 wheels, just renamed) and you could probably do better from a local seller if you wait...and then flip the 40mm wheels for a reasonable price.

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Originally Posted by summit

Well, might be a Stumpy build since nobody has Spur frames.

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I've got a size large hugene frame for sale, if that's of any interest.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

I've got a size large hugene frame for sale, if that's of any interest.

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Too big, frame size and the 140 travel. I'm really looking for 120-130 travel and a 27-29# build. Propaine's website is a real pain in the ass of redirects and popups. I did look at a Spindrift and went with the Spire

Epic Evo is looking too XC at 110mm

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Originally Posted by summit

Well, might be a Stumpy build since nobody has Spur frames.

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What size frame do you need? Fanatik Bike Co. has one green and two black Mediums.

https://www.fanatikbike.com/products...gaAtE0EALw_wcB

Also, what about the SB115 or SB130? Should be some sales on those?

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Originally Posted by summit

Too big, frame size and the 140 travel. I'm really looking for 120-130 travel and a 27-29# build. Propaine's website is a real pain in the ass of redirects and popups. I did look at a Spindrift and went with the Spire

Epic Evo is looking too XC at 110mm

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some used SB 115s floating around too. That way you can fit in with all of the dentists on that side of vail pass.

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Originally Posted by g_man80

What size frame do you need? Fanatik Bike Co. has one green and two black Mediums.

https://www.fanatikbike.com/products...gaAtE0EALw_wcB

Also, what about the SB115 or SB130? Should be some sales on those?

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$3100 for a Spur frame with a Sidluxe Ult vs $1750 for a Stumpy frame with a Factory DPS... hard to justify the Spur despite my love for Transition and the great demo ride I had on the Spur.

For the Yetis, they are sick, I'd be struggling to decide between that 150/130 vs the Spire on some bigger climbs with techier descents. The SB115 is very XC in geo and travel.

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Originally Posted by summit

$3100 for a Spur frame with a Sidluxe Ult vs $1750 for a Stumpy frame with a Factory DPS... hard to justify the Spur despite my love for Transition and the great demo ride I had on the Spur.

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Agreed. Just wasn’t sure if the lack of availability was keeping you from the Spur.

So also have a locally available 2019 Liv Intrigue Advanced 2 (27.5) small in nearly new condition ( like 10 rides) for a bit under 2k. Given a choice between the 2019 Trek EX women's 9.8 27.5+ (def used a good amount but taken care of, suspension serviced, etc) for $1600 vs this for $2000 which way would you all experts lean.

https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=l....8-womens-2019

Or wait for something else. It's a good market and we aren't in a rush

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Originally Posted by Duffman

So also have a locally available 2019 Liv Intrigue Advanced 2 (27.5) small in nearly new condition ( like 10 rides) for a bit under 2k. Given a choice between the 2019 Trek EX women's 9.8 27.5+ (def used a good amount but taken care of, suspension serviced, etc) for $1600 vs this for $2000 which way would you all experts lean.

https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=l....8-womens-2019

Or wait for something else. It's a good market and we aren't in a rush

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Definitely not that Giant. That's an NX level build - it's probably worth $1100-ish in this market.

It's a buyer's market right now, and small sizes tend to not fly off the shelves. I bet with a bit of patience you can find a brand new bike with a decent build for $2k or a little over.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Definitely not that Giant. That's an NX level build - it's probably worth $1100-ish in this market.

It's a buyer's market right now, and small sizes tend to not fly off the shelves. I bet with a bit of patience you can find a brand new bike with a decent build for $2k or a little over.

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Makes sense . Haven't seen a big drop on the low to medium end FS bikes yet (surprised the Giants / Livs haven't dropped yet given what I have heard about their overstocks ) but we can wait a bit and see

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