ON3P SKIS Discussion

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Originally Posted by peglegger

Would love some 2018 Wren 108s in 184 if anyone has em. Kapow I assume you've long moved those?

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I got a pair of those that could become available. They are in Scandiland though (Swe). Where are you located?

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Originally Posted by Vmango

I just hope I can get the hookiness out of my WD116s.

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Try a base grind, re-tune the bevel of the edges (1/1), detune the edges ahead of the contact points and bring a gummy to the lift the first day you are back on them for fine tuning, and you should be set.

From there on and in it is just incremental tuning and understanding how to ski them (on hard snow) to get them to do what you want, while there should be no hookiness at all in soft snow post tune.

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Originally Posted by Norseman

187 WD is -7.5

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Didn't the WD used to be like -6?

Thinking very seriously about a WD110 Tour. Wonder how it would do mounted +1 or +1.5...

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

Try a base grind, re-tune the bevel of the edges (1/1), detune the edges ahead of the contact points and bring a gummy to the lift the first day you are back on them for fine tuning, and you should be set.

From there on and in it is just incremental tuning and understanding how to ski them (on hard snow) to get them to do what you want, while there should be no hookiness at all in soft snow post tune.

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Yeah that’s the plan. Tried further detuning last year with not much success so will go whole hog before the season this year.

Will report back. While I don’t think it’s me I’m not ruling out that I’m an idiot.

They still ski amazing just not how I was expecting and certainly different that my experience with the 96s

Cheers


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Originally Posted by Vmango

I also have Woods 116s from 2019 (the first year). They've also been great had them out cat skiing in BC, and two years out at Snowbird for big snowfalls. I find them a little hooky at slow speed but if I point the tips and pick up the speed it improves. I do wonder sometimes if it's part of that factory issues with the WDs from that year because my 96 are not hooky at all. But maybe it's the stiff tail? Going to look into retuning them this fall and I'll see what the deal is.

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Just get the WD116s a base grind and 1/1 tune. I had the exact same issue with my WD96s from that year, which I never had with a prior ON3P ski. Iggy offered to have me mail them back but just took them to a local trusted shop and absolutely zero hookiness thereafter. Notably, I also have a pair of WD108s (closer to the 116s) and no issues at all.

Headed for my first pair o on3ps very fukin stoked. Need some tgr knowledge on what length to go for. I’m 6’3 185ish. Gunna hopefully be working at alta this season but from the east coast so could be happy to have a little more maneuverability in whacky east coast trees.

Whatta we think 187 or 192? Both options on gear swap for the same price. Leaning towards 187 cus they’re custom and camo XD.

How do they ski? Long/short? The answer is definitely to buy the camo ones for free spede


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Originally Posted by bowboybb

Headed for my first pair o on3ps very fukin stoked. Need some tgr knowledge on what length to go for. I’m 6’3 185ish. Gunna hopefully be working at alta this season but from the east coast so could be happy to have a little more maneuverability in whacky east coast trees.

Whatta we think 187 or 192? Both options on gear swap for the same price. Leaning towards 187 cus they’re custom and camo XD.

How do they ski? Long/short? The answer is definitely to buy the camo ones for free spede


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If it's your first season at Alta and you don't already have a ton of western skiing experience go 187 and don't look back. ON3Ps run long and you'll be glad to have a little extra maneuverability traversing around Alta's nooks and crannies. If you are a super confident skier who defaults to straightlining when things get tight go 192.

The 187's will straightline just fine too

I'll second going 187. I've got a couple season of skiing Alta (and will likely be back this season) and really appreciate the maneuverability in the steep tight trees. There have been only a few days where I would have wanted the longer versions of the Steeple's and BGs that I have.

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Props to Brasso for the ground work and shipping the Caylors to me. Even have the "ON4P" top. Pretty sure these were demos as they have the ON4P top and hole pattern for marker dems.

176 K108 - DD once most sharks are covered
191 Caylors - whenever there's pow, chopped pow, or children in the way
176 J114 - Pretty much wall art for now.. between the Kartels, Caylors, and other skis in the quiver, just doesn't make a lot of sense to mount them up this season.

Would be sick if ON3P offered orange bases in custom as stock option ;) really dig the blue bases in the same design too. I also think the stock green needs to be more in line with the Evo green..

187 will be plenty

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Originally Posted by bearcub69

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Props to Brasso for the ground work and shipping the Caylors to me. Even have the "ON4P" top. Pretty sure these were demos as they have the ON4P top and hole pattern for marker dems.

176 K108 - DD once most sharks are covered
191 Caylors - whenever there's pow, chopped pow, or children in the way
176 J114 - Pretty much wall art for now.. between the Kartels, Caylors, and other skis in the quiver, just doesn't make a lot of sense to mount them up this season.

Would be sick if ON3P offered orange bases in custom as stock option ;) really dig the blue bases in the same design too. I also think the stock green needs to be more in line with the Evo green..

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The stock green is meant as a branding thing really, to stand out. The flo-orange really pops though too.

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Originally Posted by Sessiøn

The stock green is meant as a branding thing really, to stand out. The flo-orange really pops though too.

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Yeah I think I remember Iggy saying that in a Blister pod? That its basically identification/advertising on a macro scale? That makes sense, but now with so many custom base options, it would be sick if the orange and maybe other colors in the stock design could make a return. I don't hate the green, but I always liked the orange a little bit more.

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Originally Posted by bearcub69

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Props to Brasso for the ground work and shipping the Caylors to me. Even have the "ON4P" top. Pretty sure these were demos as they have the ON4P top and hole pattern for marker dems.

176 K108 - DD once most sharks are covered
191 Caylors - whenever there's pow, chopped pow, or children in the way
176 J114 - Pretty much wall art for now.. between the Kartels, Caylors, and other skis in the quiver, just doesn't make a lot of sense to mount them up this season.

Would be sick if ON3P offered orange bases in custom as stock option ;) really dig the blue bases in the same design too. I also think the stock green needs to be more in line with the Evo green..

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Those Caylors fucking rip. Love those skis. Highly capable ski in a variety of conditions. Favorite ON3P I've ever been on

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Originally Posted by bearcub69

Yeah I think I remember Iggy saying that in a Blister pod? That its basically identification/advertising on a macro scale? That makes sense, but now with so many custom base options, it would be sick if the orange and maybe other colors in the stock design could make a return. I don't hate the green, but I always liked the orange a little bit more.

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I have never really paid attention to sidewall color until I received my j110's with green sidewalls. I am digging the green sidewalls...

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Originally Posted by tuco

Those Caylors fucking rip. Love those skis. Highly capable ski in a variety of conditions. Favorite ON3P I've ever been on

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Excited to ski them. I've heard others say it has been their favorite ON3P as well. I was surprised by hand flex.. softer than I thought they'd be (not noodles), but pretty much a perfect flex pattern for my taste. Hoping my K108s will have a similar flex pattern as the Caylors once broken in.

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

If it's your first season at Alta and you don't already have a ton of western skiing experience go 187 and don't look back. ON3Ps run long and you'll be glad to have a little extra maneuverability traversing around Alta's nooks and crannies. If you are a super confident skier who defaults to straightlining when things get tight go 192.

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Yeah I’ve spent chunks of time out west, just going full time after graduating early and verrryy stoked. Just realize the whole on3ps run true to size meaning long compared to other companies thing. I’ll go 187 and I might toss the marker duke pt on there if it’s burly enough. If ima be touring I’ll definitely want a tad less ski. Thanks fellas


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yeah, they'll prob be within a few mm of Moment Wildcat 190s. Same story with Wildcat108 184s and Woodsman108 182s, almost identical length straight pull.

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Originally Posted by bearcub69

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Props to Brasso for the ground work and shipping the Caylors to me. Even have the "ON4P" top. Pretty sure these were demos as they have the ON4P top and hole pattern for marker dems.

176 K108 - DD once most sharks are covered
191 Caylors - whenever there's pow, chopped pow, or children in the way
176 J114 - Pretty much wall art for now.. between the Kartels, Caylors, and other skis in the quiver, just doesn't make a lot of sense to mount them up this season.

Would be sick if ON3P offered orange bases in custom as stock option ;) really dig the blue bases in the same design too. I also think the stock green needs to be more in line with the Evo green..

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Nice to see a quiver shot! Lookin good. The ON4P lettering just makes that ski imo.

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Originally Posted by Brasso

Nice to see a quiver shot! Lookin good. The ON4P lettering just makes that ski imo.

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I'm waiting for the new ON5Ps

you mean the ON5Gs? they've already started the rollout nationwide.

So I'll be the first to admit that I do not know alot about the properties and pro/cons of different types of woods and/or ski construction.

So when a debate on the suitability of ON3P's tour and 50/50 layups for parking skiing came up over at NS I tried to engange to share my understanding of said layups compared to the industry norm.

While it is pretty clear from the quotes below that my knowledge is pretty limited, I still find that the answers produced during the discussion could be of interest to mags too, so below is the dialoge or you can find the thread here. Caveman = the manager of materiels over at ON3P as far as I can tell.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

... keep in mind that the tour layup's thinner edges/bases is actually the same as the industry norm for regular resort skis from most other brands, so not thin or flimsy by any means.

So a tour layup jeff102 would be rounder flexed, lighter version of the standard jeff102. So yeah, it will be a little less bombproof than the regular jeff102s but still on par for the segment. So in essence a lighter and more flickable version than the stock version. They would probably be a lot of fun.

That being said, I would probably opt for the 50/50 layup if you are wanting a slightly lighter ski but want to retain the bombproof standard bases/edges, or opt for a stock layup ski with a modified core (softer option) if you "just" want them to be slightly softer. I would think that the 50/50 or standard layups are the more appropriate layups to handle the abuse dished out by park shredding, even if the tours will be no worse than most park skis on the market wrt durability.
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Originally Posted by Caveman

I have a pair of 186 Jeffrey 108 50/50s (with tour core). They ski the hard snow really great. I would strongly advise against using that ski in the park though. That core just wont be as strong as a 100% bamboo core. The stock/bamboo core will be much stronger in handling hard impacts, rails, butters, etc..

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

paulownia is wood that is used in lots and lots of skis (from ON3P, Icelantic, Moment, Line, and so on) and snowboards (throughout Mervin's range - aka Lib and Gnu) usually mixed with other types of wood such as bamboo, ash, maple or aspen. Its use is not limited to touring skis.

In this case I would assume that the extra thick bases took up the slack compared to other wood cores used in skis from other manufacturers or bamboo. There is also not a huge difference in density between bamboo and paulownia. Some claim it is the tree with the heighest strenght to weight ratio of all trees and others have found that has similar properties to poplar, the he most commonly used species of wood for ski cores according to 4FRNT. 4FRNT also specify that they add paulownia to poplar cores to decrease weight while also increasing the torsional strength.

So based on my understanding paulownia seem like a realtively suitable core material for the use. So why do you strongly recommend against it? Have you had issues after use with your skis?

The reason I ask is not to call you, but but to understand where you are coming from. Especially as I would not hesitate to do anything with 50/50 ON3Ps that I do on standard layup ON3Ps. :)

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Originally Posted by Caveman

Alright I'll address all of this. Keep in mind, sure you could ski park on a 50/50 or a tour and they probably would a pretty fun park ski given how light they are, but the "tour core" is not going to be as durable as the "stock" core. Bamboo is just a stronger material. Losing grams is not free, but paulownia is a pretty good trade off. Paulownia is quite a bit lighter (less dense) compared to bamboo and is not as strong as bamboo.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

paulownia is wood that is used in lots and lots of skis (from ON3P, Icelantic, Moment, Line, and so on) and snowboards (throughout Mervin's range - aka Lib and Gnu) usually mixed with other types of wood such as bamboo, ash, maple or aspen. Its use is not limited to touring skis.

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Most of what ON3P builds uses a 100% bamboo core. The only time paulownia is used is when weight savings is an objective. I can't speak to other brands but at ON3P paulownia is only used when the ski is intended to do well going both uphill and downhill.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

In this case I would assume that the extra thick bases took up the slack compared to other wood cores used in skis from other manufacturers or bamboo. There is also not a huge difference in density between bamboo and paulownia. Some claim it is the tree with the heighest strenght to weight ratio of all trees and others have found that has similar properties to poplar, the he most commonly used species of wood for ski cores according to 4FRNT. 4FRNT also specify that they add paulownia to poplar cores to decrease weight while also increasing the torsional strength.

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The advantage of a 50/50 layup (thicker base/edge) vs the tour layup (thinner base/edge) is really to give better impact resistance to rocks, stumps, etc... The thicker UHMW and steel does slightly stiffen the ski, but it mainly adds weight and increases impact resistance. We were hesitant for a long time to build a ski with thinner base and edge since ON3P is predicated on durability, but we wanted to build a competitive touring ski and realized how much weight could be saved by going to a thinner base and edge. When we started testing the tour cores, torsional rigidity was a factor at the top of our mind, and torsionally the tour cores hold up to the stock cores. This has to do with the spacing of the bamboo stringers in the core, the mount plate, and the triaxial fiberglass.

I'm not sure about the weights and densities listed in that thread. If you go to wood-database.com, paulownia is listed density at 280 kg/m3. Bamboo density is listed with a range of 500-850 kg/m3. At ON3P we have found our paulownia to be slightly lighter than these figures and the bamboo in the lighter side of the 500-850 range. If you look at the elastic modulus, paulownia is listed at 635,000 lbf/in2 and bamboo at 2,610,000 lbf/in2. A real world example of this is how easy it is to break a piece of paulownia vs how difficult it is to break a piece of bamboo... bamboo just bends and paulownia snaps. In comparison to paulownia, bamboo is a little more than twice as dense, yet based on the elastic modulus about 4 times as strong.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

So based on my understanding paulownia seem like a realtively suitable core material for the use. So why do you strongly recommend against it? Have you had issues after use with your skis?

The reason I ask is not to call you, but but to understand where you are coming from. Especially as I would not hesitate to do anything with 50/50 ON3Ps that I do on standard layup ON3Ps. :)

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I think paulownia is a great material and very suitable core material. I was pretty pretty blown away with how well it skied. I would just hesitate at using it in the park.. or any time the ski will be taking heavy impacts, I just know that bamboo reacts better to a folding impact. I have never had any issues with my skis nor have my friends... Its just what I layed out before that makes me want to steer people away from it. I'm sure you could get away with riding the 50/50 or tour in the park but I also think that 100% bamboo meets the conditions of park riding much better than paulownia.

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Caveman's reply is the most informative reply I think I haver ever seen on the topic and def when talking about ON3P's layups. So I asked him if it was ok that I posted it here on TGR. He gave me the thumbs up. So yay, sharing is caring eh.

caveman works for ON3P, incase it wasn't clear to anyone.

He’s also a subject matter expert in hardwoods and grass…

Trying to decide between 182 and 187 BG118...could use some perspective...and I've already spoke with Scott at ON3P, but curious to get the community's take if there's anyone out there that's pondered/experienced the same...

What I'm going to use them for: 8"+ resort powder days and cat/heli ski days. mounted with look pivots (no cast, no touring). replacing my current powder ski (2010, 188cm Rossi S7's which, sidenote, have one of my favorite topsheets of all time; props to Will Barras)
Who I am: 5'10", 170lbs, aggressive, yet calculated skier.

What I like about the 188cm S7's: great float; super easy to throw sideways and slash pockets of pow; can straightline on top of the chopped up groomers to get to back to the lift quickly; big surface area to land on from cliffs and drops (will send [almost] anything in the right conditions); easy to lay down long, fast superG/downhill turns in wide open pow
What I don't like about the 188cm S7's: can be cumbersome in tight, steep trees; sometimes buckle when straightlining in chop; not very drivable when i need them to be; unsupportive tails; they're old, overcooked noodles with bases that are 50% ptex; they need replacing

My concerns with going 182 BG: not enough ski to land on from drops; not a long enough ski to lay down longer radius turns in open pow, forcing me into shorter radius turns; too similar to my daily driver 181cm QST 106's
My concerns with going 187 BG: too much ski in super steep/tight trees and chutes, especially since they will be stiffer than the S7's that i already find a bit cumbersome at the 188cm length; the whole "187 ON3P's are actually 190's from any other ski builder" type of talk that my brain can't compute