the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

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Originally Posted by riff

Thanks mtnlion!
I’ll try shrinking the shells back a bit.

I’ve never tried other footbeds in those boots, but I’ve had that pain in radiums, Titans, spirit 3’s, vulcans and tlt5 and 6.
Thinner socks are better, slightly. That’s why I thought more room might help...
It never happens in regular boots or shoes.
Hundreds of days on the Soles for sure. I’ll investigate the met pads underfoot.

Thanks!


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I've had similar issues with morton's neuroma in the past with different ski touring boots.

Key for me was significant punching for width in forefoot but also added arch support in the form of carefully attached and shaped strips of 1.5mm thick cork onto my flattened footbeds.

I have flat feet that pronate severely so liners and softer/not totally rigid footbeds that provide the 'correct' amount of support at the beginning of the ski day, always packed out in the afternoon and caused feet to splay which torques the pressure to the outside of forefoot causing neuroma pain in extreme circumstances in the past. Different 'packing out' patterns for pure downhill versus ski touring days as well, so it made it hard to 'dial in' enough compensating extra support mods cause they would only work correctly for either touring or downhill days.


These days i'm rolling with carbon fiber stiff footbeds with solid arch support enhanced with a bit of cork in the hollow under the shaped arch area.

Also have the Vulcan boot and punched the hell outta the mid/forefoot and reshaped the forefoot to make it more 'rounded' and less 'pointy'.

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Originally Posted by Rossymcg

2 questions
1) as per advice earlier in the thread had my boots punched out at the side, it's nice in there now but fuck me my toes are so cold going numb. it feels very tight in just the liner around my toe area. once in the shell it's very tight and a real struggle to wiggle upward to get some blood flowing in to the toes to warm them up. I've had prob 20 odd days in the boots now, well renowned boot fitter keeps saying they'll pack out.
2) rented some touring boots (my alpine boots 24-24.5)
I went with 26(a lot of slopping about inside)as they didn't feel too tight across the last. on the up very comfy, coming down I couldn't ski. I had no control what so ever. how close a fit would you want to put someone in a touring boot? I've only ever skied lift served and boot packed never used skins and toured before yesterday

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1) can you use a thinner footbed? thinner sock? or get the boot board ground thinner?

2) about 0-5mm bigger then your alpine boot. If you just want a boot for walking (not skiing anything exciting) then upsize as you want

1) I doubt there's a thinner sock on the market. I never thought to grind the footbeds. They're instaprint there's about 3mm in thickness at the toe end 1.5mm of the soft blue top layer and 1.5mm of the hard moulded bottom, how much would you take it down to?
2) I want to go down considerably quicker than I go up. I took the boots back and swapped for some 25's today. they were a lot better but in the locked ski mode I had so much heel movement and felt like my knees had to move forever laterally till my skis tipped and edges engaged. maybe a new heat moulded liner instead of a packed out rental would make the world of difference. do many folks use intuition liners in their touring boots?


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Originally Posted by Rossymcg

1) I doubt there's a thinner sock on the market. I never thought to grind the footbeds. They're instaprint there's about 3mm in thickness at the toe end 1.5mm of the soft blue top layer and 1.5mm of the hard moulded bottom, how much would you take it down to?
2) I want to go down considerably quicker than I go up. I took the boots back and swapped for some 25's today. they were a lot better but in the locked ski mode I had so much heel movement and felt like my knees had to move forever laterally till my skis tipped and edges engaged. maybe a new heat moulded liner instead of a packed out rental would make the world of difference. do many folks use intuition liners in their touring boots?


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1) start with 1mm and see, If you want more then that, grind 2mm more from boot board

2) get 0-5mm bigger shell fit then your alpine boots.

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Originally Posted by mntlion

1) start with 1mm and see, If you want more then that, grind 2mm more from boot board

2) get 0-5mm bigger shell fit then your alpine boots.

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1) boot board doesn't go all the way to the end of the boot it finishes short, then it's the actual shell of the boot(lange rs130w if you know the boot) I'll get the belt sander on the foot bed. I can't see any reason I can go right down to the blue soft covering it's not luke my ties need any real support. if the 1mm ain't enough would you grind inside the shell and the boot board as oppose to blowing up the toe box?

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vertical punch is hard to do, so better to get at the bootbard, or footbeds.

1-2 mm should be enought room

I just did some reading and my situation is neuroma for sure. More available width is a fix, but it takes a while for the nerve to heal fully, so no surprise that it’s still going on. I’m going to investigate footbeds as well.


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Originally Posted by riff

I just did some reading and my situation is neuroma for sure. More available width is a fix, but it takes a while for the nerve to heal fully, so no surprise that it’s still going on. I’m going to investigate footbeds as well.

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I went through the same problem last season with a new pair of boots. It took a few months of daily rehab for my foot to return to normal while still skiing and running.

Wear some toe spacers before bed and in the morning to reduce pressure on the nerve while it heals. I bought these: https://www.correcttoes.com/

Calf stretches and massaging the bottom of my foot with a lacrosse ball really helped.

For my boots, I had sixth toe punches, molded Intuitions with toe caps + strips of cardboard around hot spots and the sixth toe area, and also a footbed grind under the sixth toe area.

Hope this helps - it really is a pain in the ass.

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Originally Posted by mntlion

vertical punch is hard to do, so better to get at the bootbard, or footbeds.

1-2 mm should be enought room

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boot fitter has no probs doing a vertical punch I know he's done it for several others. I'll talk to him regarding his view. once again cheers Mtlion

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next problem. this localised pain today burning sensation in this area. same foot bed I always use never had this problem before. it came on all of a sudden in the afternoon after skiing in the morningAttachment 229064
same area both feet

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I used to have burning sensations in the ball of my feet. I tried a custom footbed from Surefeet and another set from a local shop. Didn't do much. I then got some Pedag t-form metatarsal pads that i glued to some green Superfeet insoles. Worked great. I now have Pedag pads in most of my sport shoes.

I have an issue with what seems to be the peroneal tendon/nerve on the outside/rear of my lower leg (only my right leg though). I cant tell if that area is just getting bruised up from backseat landings/buckings, or if the muscle/tendon/nerve is getting strained by something in the boot, and then any backseat stuff just becomes super noticable on the already tender area... or vice versa.

My ankels naturally are supinated? (rolled to the outside), so maybe that is causing the issue. I have always had a little pain with this issue, but late this year it has become borderline debilitating. My OG bootfitter tried to put a wedge under the outside ball of my foot to bring my ankle more nuetral, but that caused bad fatigue issues with the muscle on the outside of my ankle.

Any ideas, or things to try?

Im 6'4", 200lbs, in Lange SX120s with Intuition ProWraps and fully custom footbeds.

Why do my feet hurt in my ski boots when the temperatures get warm and the plastic gets mushy?

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

Why do my feet hurt in my ski boots when the temperatures get warm and the plastic gets mushy?

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because you are over flexing the boot in the warm temps, the upper cuff compresses the lower clog more, and this crushes your foot

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I have an issue with what seems to be the peroneal tendon/nerve on the outside/rear of my lower leg (only my right leg though). I cant tell if that area is just getting bruised up from backseat landings/buckings, or if the muscle/tendon/nerve is getting strained by something in the boot, and then any backseat stuff just becomes super noticable on the already tender area... or vice versa.

My ankels naturally are supinated? (rolled to the outside), so maybe that is causing the issue. I have always had a little pain with this issue, but late this year it has become borderline debilitating. My OG bootfitter tried to put a wedge under the outside ball of my foot to bring my ankle more nuetral, but that caused bad fatigue issues with the muscle on the outside of my ankle.

Any ideas, or things to try?

Im 6'4", 200lbs, in Lange SX120s with Intuition ProWraps and fully custom footbeds.

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try a 3mm wedge, on the boot board, on the outside of the heel. If that is worse try it the other side.

try a 3mm heel lift

talk to a physio

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Originally Posted by mntlion

because you are over flexing the boot in the warm temps, the upper cuff compresses the lower clog more, and this crushes your foot

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What is the solution? 150 flex boots in the spring? maybe those red 170s? Currently skiing in the new Lange RX130.

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Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier

What is the solution? 150 flex boots in the spring? maybe those red 170s? Currently skiing in the new Lange RX130.

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A lot of people around here (banff, alberta) where it can be VERY cold or VERY warm durring the season, change boots due to temps, or get 150-170 flex and remove rivets for cold/soft snow and stiffen the boots for warmer.
I start the season with soft dalbello tongues (cold, not in shape, softer snow) and mid season go for stiffer (MIGHT be warmer, but I'm stronger, skiing faster, might be warmer, etc)

so yes, 2 boots are not unheard of for temps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I have an issue with what seems to be the peroneal tendon/nerve on the outside/rear of my lower leg (only my right leg though). I cant tell if that area is just getting bruised up from backseat landings/buckings, or if the muscle/tendon/nerve is getting strained by something in the boot, and then any backseat stuff just becomes super noticable on the already tender area... or vice versa.

My ankels naturally are supinated? (rolled to the outside), so maybe that is causing the issue. I have always had a little pain with this issue, but late this year it has become borderline debilitating. My OG bootfitter tried to put a wedge under the outside ball of my foot to bring my ankle more nuetral, but that caused bad fatigue issues with the muscle on the outside of my ankle.

Any ideas, or things to try?

Im 6'4", 200lbs, in Lange SX120s with Intuition ProWraps and fully custom footbeds.

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Peroneal Longus attaches to the First Metatarsal head. Anything that pushes first met up vertically can strain the PL tendon. To relieve this stress, remove the vertical force. Do you have more visible pressure on footbeds at 1st met area? Many supinated feet have a lower than average 1st met position.
Possible solutions:
1. Heel Lift
2. excavation beneath 1st met- Grind foot bed thinner under 1st met through big toe.
3. If #2 not enough or doable add a full coverage 1/8" Minimum Eva or cork and grind as above.
4. Lateral heel wedge can help but if 1st met is lower it needs the excavation to have somewhere to go.
5. Lateral forefoot wedge as boot fitter did was right idea, but not always right execution if 1st met is lower vertically.

Following the advice from the Atomic-Hawx-Ultra-XTD thread ( https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...49#post5271549 ) I rebaked the boots with a shim under the footbed and some padding above the instep from the Atomic MemoryFit kit. The increased volume is noticeable but my toes still freeze with the OEM liners.
Yesterday I took my Intuition Luxury Liners and heated only the instep area of the tongues with a heat-gun. Then I tightened the buckles to create some space. Today I tried them and my toes froze again. My socks are Point6 Light (merino).
Other than that the Atomic Hawx XTD 120 feels very nice – excellent heel-hold, progressive (for a touring boot), light..

Any ideas?

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Originally Posted by aanev

Following the advice from the Atomic-Hawx-Ultra-XTD thread ( https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...49#post5271549 ) I rebaked the boots with a shim under the footbed and some padding above the instep from the Atomic MemoryFit kit. The increased volume is noticeable but my toes still freeze with the OEM liners.
Yesterday I took my Intuition Luxury Liners and heated only the instep area of the tongues with a heat-gun. Then I tightened the buckles to create some space. Today I tried them and my toes froze again. My socks are Point6 Light (merino).
Other than that the Atomic Hawx XTD 120 feels very nice – excellent heel-hold, progressive (for a touring boot), light..

Any ideas?

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boot heaters or heated socks.


do you feel freeze in other boots?

do you feet get cold in that boot if you wear the boots inside the house?

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boot heaters or heated socks.

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- Never tried. I'll consider it.

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do you feel freeze in other boots?

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- Sometimes, but at much lower temperature. Today my toes froze at -3C (27F). In Tecnica Cochise 110 2015 with Luxury liners they would freeze when the temperature is below -15C(5F) and at a much slower rate.

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do you feet get cold in that boot if you wear the boots inside the house?

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- My short answer is 'No'. In fact, should I enter indoor space my feet will eventually get warmer. However, I'll make an experiment this evening and stay with the boots for an hour or two and then report the results.

Thank you!

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Originally Posted by aanev

- Never tried. I'll consider it.


- Sometimes, but at much lower temperature. Today my toes froze at -3C (27F). In Tecnica Cochise 110 2015 with Luxury liners they would freeze when the temperature is below -15C(5F) and at a much slower rate.


- My short answer is 'No'. In fact, should I enter indoor space my feet will eventually get warmer. However, I'll make an experiment this evening and stay with the boots for an hour or two and then report the results.

Thank you!

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This sounds like a circulation issue, not a cold temperature issue, IMHO.

Feet in active motion should create enough heat to stay warm at -3C...unless circulation is impeaded.

Those Point6 light merino socks are actually pretty thick. Get a pair of something that is as thin as a pair of ladies nylons. Bridgedale and a few other make very thin, almost see through thin socks, with no seams or zones of extra material or compression.

Indeed it seems like a restricted circulation considering the fact that I have zero issues with cold feet in normal shoes.

These are the Point6 socks I use:

https://point6.com/collections/socks...ltra-light-otc

I googled Bridgedale and they seem thicker on the images, and yes, I know that images might be deceptive.

P.S. I might even consider asking my missus for pair of sexy stockings :).

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Originally Posted by aanev

P.S. I might even consider asking my missus for pair of sexy stockings :).

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That's actually a really good place to start to eliminate/confirm whether it's a circulation issue.

That's exactly the thickness you should be looking for, IMHO. Just be sure they're not too compressive. Some merino wool knits can be smooth to the skin, but they may actually really grip the slightly "fuzzy/neoprene-y" material inside the liner, which can cause unevenness in the tightness/compression of the socks, and cause circulation issues. I had a pair of super thin Icebreaker socks (merino) and they exhibited the issues noted previous. I've found that the nylons/synthetics tend to be more slippery/less catchy inside the boot, which seems to limit/prevent uneven compression by the sock. I run about a 5-7mm shell fit, and usually run intuition HD/race/lv tongue liners. I've run the intuition wrap liners, but they didn't feel right for me.


Also, be sure to pair the ladies stockings with a nice bra and panty set,... just to be thorough.

I stayed for an hour at home with the boots buckled with a Point6 Light OTC ski sock on the right foot and a sock from an Intuition Home Fitting kit on the left.

The results:
There was minimal and almost imperceptible tingling in the right foot.
Additionally and more importantly, there was slight redness at the medial side of the base of the first metatarsal. I guess there might be slight pressure on Dorsalis pedis obstructing the blood flow.

P.S. Still looking for a bra the fits me nice :)