To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

No doubt being healthy will help you survive COVID but I don't think your level of health has anything to do with whether or not you aquire covid, in fact somebody with higher V02 max will be able to take in more air with more COVID init

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Good call. You're right. I really should change that to say "If you aren't as effected by COVID..." ie, if you're not coughing, sneezing, etc. because your immune systems kicked Covid right square in the nuts.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

It would take YEARs of lifestyle change for America to benifit from better health by which time all those people will be dead

its way too late to skip the large bucket of KFC and expect to dodge COVID

but KFC could probably use the money, just wear the fucking mask as you buy the big bucket

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I dunno. Many people see measurable improvements within mere weeks when they really make a concerted effort to improve their health. But you're right. All we're really telling people is just wear the mask and keep enjoying your KFC. It's too late to make a difference anyway, so why bother?

Especially when there's been this bizarre "body positive" push from the media these last couple of years. See Cosmopolitan magazine (they are far from alone). As long as there are idiots believing this kind of horseshit, we're fucked...

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/01...0008717553.jpg

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Originally Posted by huckbucket

I'm a PhD geneticist.

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Actual footage of my buddies and I having a ‘’conversation’’ with buddy’s wife about the her thesis for her PHD in genetic counseling

https://media.tenor.com/images/9d437...92b2/tenor.gif

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Actual footage of my buddies and I having a ‘’conversation’’ with buddy’s wife about the her thesis for her PHD in genetic counseling

https://media.tenor.com/images/9d437...92b2/tenor.gif

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Hahaha!

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Actual footage of my buddies and I having a ‘’conversation’’ with buddy’s wife about the her thesis for her PHD in genetic counseling

https://media.tenor.com/images/9d437...92b2/tenor.gif

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Awesome!

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Good call. You're right. I really should change that to say "If you aren't as effected by COVID..." ie, if you're not coughing, sneezing, etc. because your immune systems kicked Covid right square in the nuts.

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Uh, huh. Are Olympic athletes young, healthy, and fit?

Posted here six months ago after this topic had already been brought up many times: Take Coronavirus More Seriously, Say Olympic Rowers Who Got It.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/01...0008717553.jpg

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I KNOW you can't make that move. Pics or it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Actual footage of my buddies and I having a ‘’conversation’’ with buddy’s wife about the her thesis for her PHD in genetic counseling

https://media.tenor.com/images/9d437...92b2/tenor.gif

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I've had a few chair rides with mofro that feel like that

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Uh, huh. Are Olympic athletes young, healthy, and fit?

Posted here six months ago after this topic had already been brought up many times: Take Coronavirus More Seriously, Say Olympic Rowers Who Got It.

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Geez. Never said you CAN'T get it if you're healthy. Don't you want to at least improve your odds, though? That's what self-improvent is all about. Stacking the odds in your favor. Doesn't mean there's a 0% chance but it does significantly reduce the chances of it taking you out. You really gonna argue that?

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50-60% of transmission is occurring in people who are not coughing, sneezing, or have any otherwise symptoms. Some of those will never get symptoms.

Look, here is where you miss the boat with infection dynamics. DOSE MATTERS. No one who gets infected gets to choose how much virus they just recieved outside of the simple measures that reduce how much exposure they have. Even in a very healthy person, with high enough exposure a healthy immune system can still be overwhelmed by viral load- and sometimes it is the over active immune response itself that is responsible for the pathology. Higher amounts of virus intake upon exposure may allow for quicker dissemination in the body, deeper penetration into the lungs, and almost always result in worse outcomes vs. lower amounts of virus exposure. Both in animal models and in people. Limiting the amount of exposure to virus leads to better outcomes. In both animal models and people.


So yes, for sure be as healthy as possible, and in that desire to be as healthy as possible, take the easy steps of avoiding increased exposures by using the tools that reduce exposure and equally, reduce the chances of spread. That doesn't even require breaking a sweat.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

What did we do over the last year, though? We doubled down on those stereotypes. We shut down the gyms. We told people to stay home. We reinforced our habits of binging TV even further, buying everything on Amazon so we don't have to peel our lazy asses off the couch, so on and so forth.

Sadly, we haven't been successful in getting the message out there that if you REALLY want to improve your odds of surviving this thing, then get your health under control. We're focusing SO hard on masks/social distancing/vaccines that we're utterly missing the forest of nutrition/exercise/wellness through the COVID trees.

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Is it a good idea to eat better and exercise more? Absolutely. Anyone who has the slightest, tiniest little bit of motivation can find tons of free info about how to do that on the internet. It’s not easy and it’s not cheap though - lots of complicated factors at play here.

Should we have focused our efforts on keeping gyms open and doing further promotion of healthy lifestyles in order to combat this infectious disease? Gonna have to disagree with you there.

Putting this above the response so others don't skim over it. On the question about stacking odds, I found the microcovid project to be a pretty useful way of thinking about odds and exposure. It's not a bible or anything but it's a clever way to think about the risks and environments you choose to expose yourself to. Play around with it and check out how it works to get a feel for what they think likely does the most good.
Unfortunately there's no sauerkraut toggle option

https://www.microcovid.org

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Geez. Never said you CAN'T get it if you're healthy. Don't you want to at least improve your odds, though? That's what self-improvent is all about. Stacking the odds in your favor. Doesn't mean there's a 0% chance but it does significantly reduce the chances of it taking you out. You really gonna argue that?

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I think part of the issue is that in one of the threads you said you were just dropping in to get a rise out of people. That might not have been this one.

But it looked to me like you're kinda arguing that we should do away with stop signs because modern car design + seatbelts + airbags does such a good job of keeping people safe. If you want to argue about avoiding getting sick because you have such a good immune system, well get the vaccine. Consider it a cheat code for your immune system. Or a concentrated batch of fermented stinky food if that's more your style. 1 shot, pure stink.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Geez. Never said you CAN'T get it if you're healthy. Don't you want to at least improve your odds, though? That's what self-improvent is all about. Stacking the odds in your favor. Doesn't mean there's a 0% chance but it does significantly reduce the chances of it taking you out. You really gonna argue that?

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actualy it sounded to me like you DID say being healthy would prevent you getting covid,

IME that is a common misconception among some people who say " I'm healthy so i won't get COVID and i'm not getting the Vax either and i have never been vaxed " they believe in a lot of shit which isnt gonig to affect getting or survivivng COVID, also they probably were vaxed at some point in their lives cuz kids used to get needles all the time form the school nurse at least up here

And for the vast majority of people classed as morbidly obese that ship never even left the dock when it comes to COVID so its just way too late for your health to make any difference in your ability to survive COVID

It seems like Austin is often trying to figure out reasons to do nothing, or come up with arguments for why doing something like wearing masks or not going to gyms during a raging pandemic are not necessarily good moves. then there are a bunch of messages pointing out why that's maybe not the best way to think about things...then he adjusts his argument slightly, posts a one off to support his argument like the cosmo cover, rinse and repeat.

Sure, work out, stay in shape...but wear masks, minimize transmission, get vaccinated...trust science in other words.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/01...0008717553.jpg

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I'm not going to bash you too much on your quixotic episode about american diets and habits as compared asian habits. The horse has already left the barn on that one as far as addressing Covid comorbidities and whatnot.

I would be interested to see what doctors think this woman is healthy though? This is the February 2021 edition, too. That's some straight up bullshit putting that on the cover.

Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled programming. These vaccination sites really need to have Stand-by seat lines to fill up any slack for those that miss their appointments. I know I'd go and sit in the parking lot to wait and see if anyone misses to grab a spare vaccination that otherwise would spoil.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

It seems like Austin is often trying to figure out reasons to do nothing, or come up with arguments for why doing something like wearing masks or not going to gyms during a raging pandemic are not necessarily good moves. .

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you don't understand. if you are not eating fermented kimchi, you might as well just give up. that's the real problem and the most direct and most impactful way to deal with COVID

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Originally Posted by abraham

I've had a few chair rides with mofro that feel like that

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I would have been more productive getting a few chairlift rides in today.

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Originally Posted by tetzen

I'm not going to bash you too much on your quixotic episode about american diets and habits as compared asian habits. The horse has already left the barn on that one as far as addressing Covid comorbidities and whatnot.

I would be interested to see what doctors think this woman is healthy though? This is the February 2021 edition, too. That's some straight up bullshit putting that on the cover.

Anyways, back to the regularly scheduled programming. These vaccination sites really need to have Stand-by seat lines to fill up any slack for those that miss their appointments. I know I'd go and sit in the parking lot to wait and see if anyone misses to grab a spare vaccination that otherwise would spoil.

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Well, maybe Austin works for Cosmo? Because he motivated me to actually read the article he made an example of: https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/body...nt-shape-size/

It's more about overall wellness than someone being morbidly obese being physically fit.

Holy sheep shit. You all have a lot of time on your hands!

Wife is in line for first dose on Wednesday. All teachers and others that work at local schools can get their first vax next week at the superspreader high school gym.

I applied to the county to get a vax yesterday because I work/volunteer at “mountain safety” under NSP. Not sure if that’ll work (the ski hill is in a different county). I do not think my direct supervisor will be an advocate.

MIL got a shot yesterday. She has multiple comorbid factors. FIL gets his today because Yolo Co is vaxing all the old folks. My parents in Orange County, CA are still waiting for their numbers to come up. They are both 73.

My friend who picked up covid at work (she’s an NP) between her vax shots (her exposure was right before her first shot), said that day two and three after shot two really sucked. she couldn’t tell if she was experiencing a severe covid relapse, the standard side effects of the shot, or a combo of both.

Another friend is a semi famous pulmonary researcher (MD) on athletes. He has some $$ to study Covid effects on his athlete pool (most are Olympic athletes). Last time I checked in with him, their challenge was getting baseline data because many of the athletes were testing positive immediately prior to participation. His focus is on “long Covid” and the effects on lung function.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

It seems like Austin is often trying to figure out reasons to do nothing, or come up with arguments for why doing something like wearing masks or not going to gyms during a raging pandemic are not necessarily good moves. then there are a bunch of messages pointing out why that's maybe not the best way to think about things...then he adjusts his argument slightly, posts a one off to support his argument like the cosmo cover, rinse and repeat.

Sure, work out, stay in shape...but wear masks, minimize transmission, get vaccinated...trust science in other words.

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Where am I saying in here to do nothing? Please. Enlighten me.

For the umpteenth time, I am NOT saying to not wear masks, distance, whatever. I'll say this again: We've been focusing so much on certain things that we are simply overlooking some other giant key elements of how we can be saving lives. And not just from COVID. That's hugely important to keep in mind too. We could be saving numerous people from many of the leading causes of death in the US. And this could be year after year. After COVID is dealt with and the annual death tolls more resemble that of the flu, then we'll be right back to seeing just how bad heart disease, diabetes, and everything else is. Seems we've forgotten to focus on that in 2020 as we tell people to just wear masks and hang tight til the vaccine. Not a good long term solution, folks. Especially since the two (covid deaths and poor health) are inextricably linked.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Where am I saying in here to do nothing? Please. Enlighten me.

For the umpteenth time, I am NOT saying to not wear masks, distance, whatever. I'll say this again: We've been focusing so much on certain things that we are simply overlooking some other giant key elements of how we can be saving lives. And not just from COVID. That's hugely important to keep in mind too. We could be saving numerous people from many of the leading causes of death in the US. And this could be year after year. After COVID is dealt with and the annual death tolls more resemble that of the flu, then we'll be right back to seeing just how bad heart disease, diabetes, and everything else is. Seems we've forgotten to focus on that in 2020 as we tell people to just wear masks and hang tight til the vaccine. Not a good long term solution, folks. Especially since the two (covid deaths and poor health) are inextricably linked.

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Hey CuntuckyFried. Michele Obama tried to launch a national campaign called "Let's Move" that emphasized nutrition and exercise. Republicans lost their shit and screamed about the "Nanny State" at the mere mention of having healthier lunch options in the schools. Similarly, soda taxes in cities like NYC and Seattle got huge pushback. I wonder how those proposals would go over in "MUH Freedoms!" TX cities?

Your suggestion that healthier lifestyles would improve health outcomes is accurate (and obvious). But it ain't going to happen when many people in this country view health policies as a secret plot by communists to take away their freedom. Any Biden proposal on nutrition policy is going to be immediately met with: "First they came for my hamburgers, then they came for my guns!"

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

After COVID is dealt with and the annual death tolls more resemble that of the flu, then we'll be right back to seeing just how bad heart disease, diabetes, and everything else is. Seems we've forgotten to focus on that in 2020 as we tell people to just wear masks and hang tight til the vaccine. Not a good long term solution, folks. Especially since the two (covid deaths and poor health) are inextricably linked.

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Some keywords for the Googles when you want some light reading: pulmonary fibrosis

If we were never born we wouldn’t get the Covid. Problem solved.


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“ After COVID is dealt with and the annual death tolls more resemble that of the flu”

Really?

I’m also surprised you didn’t throw in another “we shudda did Sweden!”

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Where am I saying in here to do nothing? Please. Enlighten me.

For the umpteenth time, I am NOT saying to not wear masks, distance, whatever. I'll say this again: We've been focusing so much on certain things that we are simply overlooking some other giant key elements of how we can be saving lives. And not just from COVID.

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Um. No.

People have been shouting this stuff about obesity, diet, and health outcomes for the last 20+ years. Over and over again. It's hard to fathom you could have missed it on any of the information sources you might have chosen in that time. That you don't grasp the consistent message has been out there that long is why you come across as either a pure dolt or just a troll.

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Originally Posted by bennymac

“ After COVID is dealt with and the annual death tolls more resemble that of the flu”

Really?

I’m also surprised you didn’t throw in another “we shudda did Sweden!”

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You mean that our federal government should finally get its shit together and pass laws that reduce our freedumbs to mitigate the spread of covid and save lives :P

For Sweden, better late than never. For us, we can only hope!