50 years to the day

Biden and Mohamed bin Salman spoke about situation in middle east:

- Fully supports defense of U.S. partners facing terrorist threats
- Ongoing efforts to keep Israel war from escalating
- Agreed on "pursuing broader diplomatic efforts"
- "Much more" humanitarian aid needed in Gaza
- Both called for immediate release of hostages
- Both affirm importance of working toward sustainable Israeli-Palestinian peace as soon as the crisis subsides, building on Saudi-US work already underway in recent months
- U.S. and Gulf Cooperation Council contribute $100 million each to Gaza humanitarian relief, both discussed how the U.S. is disbursing its $100m to support the response

- Blinken met with French, German, U.K., UN counterparts, discussed ongoing efforts to secure the release of hostages and to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...f-7f7dcd790000

^That's good news. And impressive diplomatic efforts by Biden... and MBS it would seem... he seems pragmatic but he is still a prideful and ruthless authoritarian.

Ironically, from a strictly American point of view, this middle eastern flare up is a 2nd priority problem getting 1st priority attention. Ukraine and the China/Pacific situation are higher priority. On the other hand, if the situation gets out of control, it would move to a 1st priority for US credibility, global economics, and refugee situations. Ironically, a regional conflagration would actually be a larger existential concern for China with their being extremely dependent on Persian Gulf oil (see also PLAN deployment of a 6 ship task force to the region).

Unbelievable. Prideful, ruthless, authoritarian but pragmatic!

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Originally Posted by summit

When Bin Laden committed 9/11, why didn't we all just give him what he wanted? Why did we have to invade Afghanistan when the Taliban wouldn't give up Bin Laden?

We could have given peace a chance without bombs and troops. We could have just let Bin Laden and Al Queda be. They wouldn't do it again if only we gave them what they wanted. We could have just dropped sanction on Iraq, pulled all US forces from Saudi Arabia, abandoned all aid and support of Israel, and converted to Wahabi Sunni Islam and instituted Sharia Law, banned LGBTQ, stopped educating women, brought back stoning and whippings... you know, what Bin Laden was pointing out the failures on. Really, we brought 9/11 on ourselves.

But seriously... sometimes there are shit choices and by design. But sometimes things go too far. Too bad we tried to nation build AFG and then the same in Iraq. That was a lot of wasted blood and treasure. That is what Biden was trying to warn Israel about.

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Right, so invading Afghanistan worked out so well.

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Originally Posted by mcphee

Is the US and Israel so bad at spy craft, infiltration, propaganda, and subversion that we can’t play a long game and root these religious terrorists leaders out and show the rest a better way of life? I mean how hard can it be to trick these subhumans? Are there stocks I can buy to help this cause?

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Heybro they could go take hostages like your sainted Pallies, you fucking tankie shitbag.

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Originally Posted by mcphee

Unbelievable. Prideful, ruthless, authoritarian but pragmatic!

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Now you're going to be a fucking moral authority? Lol

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Originally Posted by rod9301

Right, so invading Afghanistan worked out so well.

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Well, perhaps in the sense we haven't had a repeat of 9/11 in the US since and kept those cockroaches busy AF over on their home turf, maybe? I don't know how exactly we can quantify things, but at least Obama ended up getting Bin Laden. And that was good. The world's a better place without the bastard.

Not sure exactly what alternatives you and mcpee might have for dealing with outright terrorists. Seems that force is the ONLY thing that knocks 'em back down a peg.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Well, perhaps in the sense we haven't had a repeat of 9/11 in the US since and kept those cockroaches busy AF over on their home turf, maybe? I don't know how exactly we can quantify things, but at least Obama ended up getting Bin Laden. And that was good. The world's a better place without the bastard.

Not sure exactly what alternatives you and mcpee might have for dealing with outright terrorists. Seems that force is the ONLY thing that knocks 'em back down a peg.

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There’s probably some lessons in here, but I ain’t reading it:

https://www.sigar.mil/pdf/lessonslea...R-21-46-LL.pdf

The biggest challenge is finding a legitimate partner willing to co-exist with its opposition. Thoughtful development initiatives instead of ticking boxes by the military after toppling the Taliban in a matter of weeks would have gone a long towards enabling a politically legitimate alternative to the Taliban.

By 2014 the Afghan National Army was doing most of the fighting with logistics support from the U.S. military and increasingly private contractors. The Afghan National Army achieved a simmering equilibrium of stability in the country. Unfortunately, building state resource capacity was never given high priority. Especially in the beginning as resources and attention was diverted to Iraq.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Thoughtful development initiatives instead of ticking boxes by the military after toppling the Taliban in a matter of weeks would have gone a long towards enabling a politically legitimate alternative to the Taliban.

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I think we were headed in that direction, no? And then, well, Iraq. Mic drop.

Yep. It's sad because despite so many people referring to Afghans pejoratively (goat herders, etc.) they achieved a lot of institutional building in their civil society only to see it all torn down when the Taliban returned to power. Women’s empowerment was notably exceptional.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Ahem, Montuckey wasn’t in a combat role iirc. I was and I think there are a couple others. Kindly fuck off.


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I did not know that, I will give you the deserved respect. As any vets deserves , regardless of what they did. Montucky had valuable insight to the afghan disaster as an air crew member. It was hard for him to watch people clinging to landing gear.

But my point still stands, what excuse do the rest of these Wikipedia analysts have to shit on him?

Harry can call me whatever he chooses to, my respect for service is abundantly clear.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8kVYTYA/


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E, who is that guy?

I think Israel has accounted for the fact that every time this happens, very quickly international pressure forces them to stop. One possibility; The goal is stop the rocket attacks and starve them out. That’s why they can’t let aid get to them. Especially fuel. That powers their generators. And that’s why the lights have to stay off. They can do allot not physically going in. And as long hamas fires rockets, Biden, macron etc can’t tell them not to fire back, hitting the vents etc.

And just how long could you subject your family to that scenario?

2014 article : https://newrepublic.com/article/1187...eace-deal-died

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

I think Israel has accounted for the fact that every time this happens, very quickly international pressure forces them to stop. One possibility; The goal is stop the rocket attacks and starve them out. That’s why they can’t let aid get to them. Especially fuel. That powers their generators. And that’s why the lights have to stay off. They can do allot not physically going in. And as long hamas fires rockets, Biden, macron etc can’t tell them not to fire back, hitting the vents etc.

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Blocking aid, starving them... That doesn't sound anything like a colonial plan. Maybe take some land too, as some Israeli politicians have suggested. Do we bring back heads on pikes, or are flattened apartment blocks the modern signal of righteousness?

Fortunately, some Jews lived in the region 100 years ago, and some Israelis are Jews, so logically no Israeli action can be compared to colonialism, so it must be something else, a duck perhaps.

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Originally Posted by mcphee

Is the US and Israel so bad at spy craft, infiltration, propaganda, and subversion that we can’t play a long game and root these religious terrorists leaders out and show the rest a better way of life? I mean how hard can it be to trick these subhumans? Are there stocks I can buy to help this cause?

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There's a book. US Army Field Manual on Insurgencies https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf
However, it does not describe how to fix bad political leadership on the powerful side, so as to get permission to use the book. The powerful leaders usually call the insurgents "sub-human" or "animals" instead. That means bombs instead of books. Good news is usually there will be more insurgents later, so the opportunity to use the book also comes around later.

Any path from here is going to be tough. My hope is on the regional peace efforts, and it'll be difficult with the collection of failed states, bad states, conflict, and religious extremists that make up the region. Maybe we need the Ottomans back to enforce peace. I guess that would be the Turks, but they're too weak. UN is also weak. US doesn't want the role, and likely doesn't want China to do it, though those two countries probably have the greatest interest in peace or more specifically economic stability.

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Originally Posted by LongShortLong

Blocking aid, starving them... That doesn't sound anything like a colonial plan. Maybe take some land too, as some Israeli politicians have suggested. Do we bring back heads on pikes, or are flattened apartment blocks the modern signal of righteousness?

Fortunately, some Jews lived in the region 100 years ago, and some Israelis are Jews, so logically no Israeli action can be compared to colonialism, so it must be something else, a duck perhaps.

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Blocking aid to Hamas, HAMAS.

Are you on dope?

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Originally Posted by LongShortLong

Blocking aid, starving them... That doesn't sound anything like a colonial plan. Maybe take some land too, as some Israeli politicians have suggested. Do we bring back heads on pikes, or are flattened apartment blocks the modern signal of righteousness?

Fortunately, some Jews lived in the region 100 years ago, and some Israelis are Jews, so logically no Israeli action can be compared to colonialism, so it must be something else, a duck perhaps.

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And so indigenous Native Palestinians make sunshine and flowers and are entirely justified executing little Jew kids because literally everything negative in their otherwise innocent peaceable joyous amicable Palestinian lives is The Jew's doing, and Jihad is the only remedy, amirite? Allahu Akbar

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Originally Posted by highangle

And so indigenous Native Palestinians make sunshine and flowers and are entirely justified executing little Jew kids because literally everything negative in their otherwise innocent peaceable joyous amicable Palestinian lives is The Jew's doing, and Jihad is the only remedy, amirite? Allahu Akbar

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I see you read the Hamas charter.

LSL has made it clear that he doesn't believe that Israelis can be civilians, only valid targets. Oh but he "opposes violence." But he has absolutely avoided decrying what Hamas does as "violence." It is "justified resistance" you see? "Justified resistance" against "legitimate targets" just like "student groups" are rallying for on certain college campuses. Kind of like how Reinhard Heydrich just wanted to have a little get together, "conference" if you will, to plan "final solutions" to "Jewish problems."

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Originally Posted by JimmyCarter

You glazed over a few other things (much as amnesty seems to overlook Hamas’ role in exacerbating some of these issues)

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ca...-of-apartheid/

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The Amnesty report confuses me. It points out Israeli laws discriminating against Palestinians. But Palestinians are not synonomous with Israeli citizens and you're allowed to discriminate against non citizens.

I thought apartheid is discrimination against citizens of your own country surely?