Fritschi Tecton

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Originally Posted by xconverge

Thanks for the thoughts. I ended up getting a deal on some ions so went that route. They ARE a few 100grams heavier than needed but will do great for now. I am still pretty curious to see how the AT binding world evolves

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I am sure they will end up being awesome for her, especially if you scored a good deal :) At the end of the day, if those bindings give her the confidence she was seeking, 100grs or whatever is a small price to pay. You could be on the perfect gear, but if one does not have confidence in it then it doesn't matter. So sounds like a good call :)

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Originally Posted by f=ma

Weird. Maybe the vipec had better power transfer?

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Yeah, I dunno. BMT90s have a different flex profile compared to Rustler 10s with a bit more give in the middle of the ski, so that might be it as well. ATK FR14s do not lack for power transfer, but especially the toes are a bit on the harsh side.

It could just be caused by a perfect storm of slightly better snow, toe elasticity and a more forgiving ski - but it still confused the hell out of me / caught me by surprise. It probably shouldn't as I have well north of a 100 days on Vipec/Tectons.

Regardless - the experience will cause changes in the quiver, and a pair of BMT109s that I am about to mount for a friend of mine will now get Vipecs instead of MTNs. :)

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Originally Posted by dcpnz

There seems to be an updated (August 2019) tecton compatibility document on black diamonds website:

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Good catch! The main theme is seemingly the addition of newer boots, and a solution for those that perviously were deemed off limits. :)

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Originally Posted by Nevada29er

Yes, enough play has developed in the toe that my heel is rotating off the riser in off camber tracks. I have yet to pre-release, but it feels very disconcerting. ...

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If you could find a way to upload the aforementioned video then I am sure it would have been educational. I am having a hard time understanding how the carriage can rotate enough within the confines of the toe to cause that much lateral movement in the heel, but it sounds pretty bad. It def sounds like something is rotten in the state of that toe (we can all use a bit of Shakespear in these troubled times ;) )

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Yeah, but you never ride lifts; I'm planning on using them inbounds as well.

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When I first mounted them, I spent a day at Stevens as kind of a way to burn them in, and I couldn’t tell them apart from my other alpine style bindings except for the almost flat ramp angle. That and when I came out once in powder, it took me forever to get them back on.

Maybe you guys are responding to stack height preferences? ATKs are much closer to the ski (I like that).

A lot of people like more stack height.

I don't know if skimo's numbers are correct, since I don't own Tectons, but they quote a pin delta of 10mm. Their 10mm delta for Vipecs agrees with my measurements, BTW. That's very close to the delta on my Wardens, but steeper than Pivots.

I'm betting on the Rustler/BMT preferences being due to something else - the tune or the mount, or plainly not getting on with one ski.

.... Thom

https://www.wildsnow.com/10733/get-u...for-your-ramp/
Wildsnow had it at 8.3.
Well I guess I should get technical and go measure this, but with my Cochise’s and Solomon STH (alpine blocks), I don’t have to put a wedge behind my liner but with the Tectons, I’m standing way more upright and I put a wedge behind the liner.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I'm betting on the Rustler/BMT preferences being due to something else - the tune or the mount, or plainly not getting on with one ski.

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I get on with both skis really well - they just ski a bit differently. I have three or four full days on the Rustler/ATK combo in resorts, and the same touring. I really like how R10s ski for the most part, but have found the ATKs to be a bit on the harsh side from turn number three ;) I have way less time on BMT90s, so things may equal out as I use them more. I do have lots and lots of days on Vipecs and Tectons though, which I love - before I got all caught up in thinking about grams.

ATK toes aren't known for being über smooth, nor is it a suprise that Vipecs are fairly smooth for being a tech toe, so I don't think my experience is either particularly noteworthy or unique. :) Though, if the same experience can be duplicated over several skis and skiing days, then I am more than willing to run bindings that weigh 140gr +/- (w/o brakes) more pr foot - especially on narrower skis. (vipecs w/o brakes vs FR14s w/brakes)

I doubt a detune will make much of a difference either as we are not talking about deflection or one ski being hard to shut down or whatever, but how shocks are absorbed in the system.

Time will tell - the touring season will be going strong for a while yet. I ordered some Katana VWs today (yay 50% off!) that will be mounted with Vipecs or more likely Tectons - so my season is far from over yet :)

Let my buddies kid use my setup since I’m out till November anyway. He’s a new skier and broke the toe of one of the bindings. No worries, he’s going to replace the toe. Just curious how much it would cost to buy a new toe piece?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...56ab440df4.jpg

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

I get on with both skis really well - they just ski a bit differently. I have three or four full days on the Rustler/ATK combo in resorts, and the same touring. I really like how R10s ski for the most part, but have found the ATKs to be a bit on the harsh side from turn number three ;) I have way less time on BMT90s, so things may equal out as I use them more. I do have lots and lots of days on Vipecs and Tectons though, which I love - before I got all caught up in thinking about grams.

ATK toes aren't known for being über smooth, nor is it a suprise that Vipecs are fairly smooth for being a tech toe, so I don't think my experience is either particularly noteworthy or unique. :) Though, if the same experience can be duplicated over several skis and skiing days, then I am more than willing to run bindings that weigh 140gr +/- (w/o brakes) more pr foot - especially on narrower skis. (vipecs w/o brakes vs FR14s w/brakes)

I doubt a detune will make much of a difference either as we are not talking about deflection or one ski being hard to shut down or whatever, but how shocks are absorbed in the system.

Time will tell - the touring season will be going strong for a while yet. I ordered some Katana VWs today (yay 50% off!) that will be mounted with Vipecs or more likely Tectons - so my season is far from over yet :)

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Yeah, I doubt anyone would argue that Vipecs/Tectons aren't smoother than traditional tech bindings.

I read your "ski better"comments (above) as more about controlling the ski, how you engage it, control at the heel, etc, and not about traditional tech toe harshness.

I love my Vipecs and have them on two crossover skis - a pair of Steeples I'm waiting to ski, and some GPOs.

For touring in soft snow, the harshness problem isn't apparent to me, at least on my other GPOs which I swapped out Vipecs for Helio 200s. I skied the skis very similarly, although I have a slight sense of the 5mm lower ramp delta (not so much the lower stack height).

What I did notice, was the 400g weight savings per foot (taking into account adding 30g for leashes).

My Vipecs come in at 632g without screws vs. about 230 for the Helios with my heavy leashes, but who's counting, eh ;-)

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Originally Posted by plugboots

https://www.wildsnow.com/10733/get-u...for-your-ramp/
Wildsnow had it at 8.3.
Well I guess I should get technical and go measure this, but with my Cochise’s and Solomon STH (alpine blocks), I don’t have to put a wedge behind my liner but with the Tectons, I’m standing way more upright and I put a wedge behind the liner.

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Skimo's numbers are a bit odd. I started a survey for the spreadsheet I put together for the ATK thread. Everything is referenced off the pin heights, and for the toe, it's measured with the boot engaged. That changes the pin height by a mm or two.

For riser height measurements, as well as all heel measurements with Tectons/Shifts/Kingpins, measure to the center of the fitting in the heel, which can be a little tricky.

When I validated the skimo riser #s (not ramp delta), these intermediate numbers (raw pin height at the heel) yielded wacky results. They must have had a transcription error, because my #s & there e d results were within measuring tolerance of each other .5 to 1mm).

Oh yeah, I measured pin heights from the top sheet and factored out any shims that I installed.

The spreadsheet is in post #1 over here, if you're interested:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=334162

... Thom

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Originally Posted by Chugachjed

Let my buddies kid use my setup since I’m out till November anyway. He’s a new skier and broke the toe of one of the bindings. No worries, he’s going to replace the toe. Just curious how much it would cost to buy a new toe piece?

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I have no idea, but the binding works just fine without that part, I think it is only there to help center the boot for step in - though the step in could be a bit more fiddly - i dunno.

Also, it could be worth checking out if BD will warrenty that toe - they seem extremely easy to deal with. It could be that the worst case is a new toe at cost or something. I dunno - if you do not get a new toe then I would not personally have bothered to spend money to replace that toe. :)

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

For touring in soft snow...

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Yeah, so in soft snow tech toes do fine. In variable, icy or windblown/tracked out snow they are noticeably harsher. But that is the trade off - elasticity for weight :) I have been considering remouning said BMT90s ATK Raider 12 2.0s to save weight, but now I am glad that I did not get around to doing it. The ski/binding combo is light enough and are awesome in use.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

My Vipecs come in at 632g without screws, but who's counting, eh ;-)

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I based my numbers on this list: https://www.evo.com/guides/alpine-an...inding-weights
I have not measured any of my bindings that I can remember, so I have no idea if the numbers are correct. :)

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

I have no idea, but the binding works just fine without that part, I think it is only there to help center the boot for step in - though the step in could be a bit more fiddly - i dunno.

Also, it could be worth checking out if BD will warrenty that toe - they seem extremely easy to deal with. It could be that the worst case is a new toe at cost or something. I dunno - if you do not get a new toe then I would not personally have bothered to spend money to replace that toe. :)



Yeah, so in soft snow tech toes do fine. In variable, icy or windblown/tracked out snow they are noticeably harsher. But that is the trade off - elasticity for weight :) I have been considering remouning said BMT90s ATK Raider 12 2.0s to save weight, but now I am glad that I did not get around to doing it. The ski/binding combo is light enough and are awesome in use.



I based my numbers on this list: https://www.evo.com/guides/alpine-an...inding-weights
I have not measured any of my bindings that I can remember, so I have no idea if the numbers are correct. :)

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Blister has the Evo's at 595 (https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...schi-vipec-evo).

I bought some used Steeples, and Evo had the 179s at 1920. Mine weigh 2110. Of course, with skis, who knows about in-flight changes to layup and such. I was really psyched about such a "light" Steeple. Oh well ...

... Thom

How much do your GPO's weigh, if you don't mind me asking?

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Originally Posted by f=ma

How much do your GPO's weigh, if you don't mind me asking?

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The 182, MAP / Carbon / Nylon top / flex #4s are 2020, and the 182, Enduro / Veneer / flex #4s come in at 2040.

I dream about a UL Veneer pair to replace the nylon top ones (mounted with the Helio 200s)

... Thom

Those are some heavy boys

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Originally Posted by f=ma

Those are some heavy boys

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Well, MAP/Enduro/flex#4 isn't exactly a touring layup ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by plugboots

When I first mounted them, I spent a day at Stevens as kind of a way to burn them in, and I couldn’t tell them apart from my other alpine style bindings except for the almost flat ramp angle. That and when I came out once in powder, it took me forever to get them back on.

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Can anyone elaborate on the difficulty. Is it the brakes that are the obstruction or is the binding touchy with regard to snow on bootsole?

I'm reading back through the thread, but any refreshers about this issue would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

When I first mounted them, I spent a day at Stevens as kind of a way to burn them in, and I couldn’t tell them apart from my other alpine style bindings except for the almost flat ramp angle. That and when I came out once in powder, it took me forever to get them back on.

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Can anyone elaborate on the difficulty. Is it the brakes that are the obstruction or is the binding touchy with regard to snow on bootsole?

I'm reading back through the thread, but any refreshers about this issue would be appreciated.

For me it was just harder, (than ATK or Dynafit), to get the toe pins to snap into the toe holes on the boots. I would get one in there, roll the toe to the there side, everything looks perfect, then slowly push down, and the pins wouldn't go into the holes. Rinse, (with a slightly different method, clean holes, etc.), repeat.
I now make sure the boot sole is very clean to start, and that seems to help. My Cochise toe blocks hold snow, and the Tectons seem to have less space below the boot toe to allow for a snow-clogged boot to engage.

The only nit I've read about the tectons is that: can be tough to put on.
Both dynafit rigs I've got are tricky enough, so calling out the tecton as an issue is of concern.

I would like to be able to use them in bounds on soft days and riding gondys and trams.

I would not sweat it - it is just a small learning curve, then your good. They aren't as easy as some other tech bindings, but their performance more than makes up for it. I have more than 100 days on Vipecs and Tectons and stopped thinking about, until I rode MTNs and ATKs - then went back to Vipecs w/o brakes. Yeah, the Vipecs are a bit more fiddly to get into, but they also ski a lot smoother.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

I would not sweat it - it is just a small learning curve, then your good. They aren't as easy as some other tech bindings, but their performance more than makes up for it. I have more than 100 days on Vipecs and Tectons and stopped thinking about, until I rode MTNs and ATKs - then went back to Vipecs w/o brakes. Yeah, the Vipecs are a bit more fiddly to get into, but they also ski a lot smoother.

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I have over 100 days on vipecs as well and I've been nothing but happy.

Currently looking at the 300g binding options and planning to try xenics (despite a few of its shortcomings) because of how awesome vipecs and tectons are.

The times I tried skiing dynafits in bounds my feet got tired. I really couldn't understand it since I didn't feel that way touring.
Then I read other people referring to the rigidity of tech bindings and it made sense.

So I've stuck with frame touring bindings. But I'm ready to take the leap.

I don’t find them particularly hard to step into, at least in my F1s or Lupo Pros. I have found certain boot and binding combos can be vastly different difficulties to step into due to the way the soles, triggers, pins, and sockets all interface together.

I find them super easy to step into, I would say at least a 90% success rate on the first try. Way easier than my old Dynafiddle Verticals.

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Originally Posted by Nevada29er

I find them super easy to step into, I would say at least a 90% success rate on the first try. Way easier than my old Dynafiddle Verticals.

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I went from Verts to Tecton’s and I was having a hard time getting in so I posted and got a great reply from Baker Bob.
Verts need a steep foot angle to get the toe in first then step down. The tecton’s use a flatter foot angle to engage the toe then step in. I believe he said you just hover over the top and step in almost flat footed, as long there is no snow packed on your boots it works like a charm

I agree yes and no. It all varies, how the surface is where you put your skies on.

If skies are flat with firm base it is super easy. And you get a 100% rate.

If snow is soft and/or angled it is more difficult as the ski can "escape" while pressure is applied from top to trigger the clamping mechanism.

Also diggin in the tail doesnot really help as you have to put pressure on the toe - the tail comes out the snow and the toe angle is to far off.





Sent from ullr with love!

While the quirky step-in is real, it's a bit overblown, and I wouldn't remotely call it a show stopper - just a quirky tech binding entry.

I can see where one might be concerned when stepping in on a dicey platform over steep terrain, but that would be the case for me with any tech binding.

In the "leashes" thread, I commented that I took to attaching them to my boots, leaving them unused on skis with bindings having brakes, but at the same time, having them available for emergency use, like in this situation.

Post #53 over here:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/....php?p=5940350

... Thom